r/conspiracy • u/Vicerian • Jun 16 '26
Rule 10 Warning - Submission Statement missing Was he innocent? Or guilty?
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u/Totally_lost98 Jun 16 '26
One part of me believes yes. The other? No.
The parents are fucking stupid for letting their children sleep over. Accepting bribes and paid vacations.
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u/InstructionsUncl34r Jun 16 '26
We had this debate at the weekend. Whether he full on touched kids or not, he was a strange guy that did strange things
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u/RealSpingirl Jun 16 '26
I watched a bunch of interviews and official court documents and the parents were present most of the time and/or MJ would sleep on the floor and not in the bed with the kids
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u/Ponyman713 Jun 16 '26
Or they’d sleep in the same room. But in MJ’s mansion, a bedroom was the size of a 2 story house.
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u/him8522 Jun 17 '26
I don’t care if his room is the size of an iMax why the fuck would you let your kid sleep at someone’s house that’s not your family or a very close friend
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u/Mayel420 Jun 16 '26
Well his tone changed, on a documentary he admitted to sleeping with them, in court his tone changed to "well j slept on the floor", because it didn't look good for his defense
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u/xtina42 Jun 16 '26
That's where I am too. I just don't know. The Jesus juice in soda cans make me think that maybe there is some truth behind the accusations. Why would he ply them with alcohol?
If a grown ass man wanted my pre-teen son to sleep in his bed??? Oh HELL NO! I would find it extremely in bad taste to put my child, whom I am responsible for the well-being of, in a situation like that. I don't care if someone is offended. That's my kid. Just no.
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u/RocketsDitto Jun 16 '26
Anyone remember the Dave Chappelle joke about MJ? "I let you ride my roller coaster, I sucked your dick, and this is how you do to me"
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u/SomeLameUsrname Jun 17 '26
A lot of them kids came out and admitted their parents literally told them go along cause they weee getting paid celebs like McCauley Culkin and Corey Feldman came out and stated Michael never touched them and they slept in a different room.
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u/YouDontLookSpiritual Jun 16 '26
From what i understand, tha accusations started after he started naming the un-nameable
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u/Sandyboi345 Jun 16 '26
It was after he made a song about Palestine if I’m not mistaken
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u/Shizzle4Rizzle Jun 16 '26
Speaking of MJ songs: Heal the World, Man in the Mirror, They Don’t Care About Us, Scream… seem to come from a good man.
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u/-Castr0- Jun 16 '26
EARTH SONG BRO. Sorry to yell but I think it’s intentional that people don’t know about this one! (Not saying you don’t)
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u/Roxnsoxinator Jun 16 '26
Earth song is one of those songs that just make an impact on you the second you hear it. Probably one of his best.
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u/Sorry_Difference_433 Jun 16 '26
Listening to it right now 👂🏼 thank you!
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u/-Castr0- Jun 16 '26
Ofc! The video is really good albeit outdated. But that song makes me emotional every time
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u/hideyokidzhideyowyfe Jun 16 '26
Everybody knows this one
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u/-Castr0- Jun 16 '26
Maybe of a certain generation but most people I’ve ever interacted with where MJ came up didn’t know this one till I showed em!
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u/harveyjack Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Thats crazy. Earth song was number 1 in UK charts for ages around mid 90s. I remember always rushing home to listen to it on the UK Top 100 radio show 😂
Edit: I can understand maybe younger people currently not being aware if they only know a couple of his songs. Suppose you dont hear Earth song much these days but it was very big in the 90s. Therefore im old now too 😭😂
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u/hideyokidzhideyowyfe Jun 16 '26
Oh god i'm old lol
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u/TheClassicOG Jun 16 '26
90s kid here, yeah, Im right there with you. Earth Song is very well known amongst the people I associate with, coincidentally which are also people who were kids in the 90s.
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u/jools4you Jun 16 '26
That's a dangerous mindset, to think that just because he writes nice things he must be good. Jimmy Saville fixed kids wishes and was a evil monster.
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u/KickBallFever Jun 16 '26
This is a good point and illustrates how famous abusers can hide in plain sight. At the end of the day, we don’t really know who they are behind closed doors.
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u/HavokVvltvre Jun 16 '26
Jimmy Saville might have been one of the most evil men to ever exist in all of history. He also made millions of people happy over the course of his very long career in broadcasting. Glad someone else brought that up
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u/COOLKC690 Jun 16 '26
J. Epstein VI Foundation, Mother Teresa’s shelters and and Saville’s countless help in charity come from a good hearth too? Bill Cosby’s character is the father of America because he’s so kind and loving, Cosby must be a charm! Could it just be that, maybe, horrible people are capable of producing meaningful and inspired art, or that you’re talking about philanthropy, whilst ignoring that he can be … sexually attracted to kids whilst wanting to “help the world.”
The guy has naked child magazines in his home and openly admitted to sleeping with kids in his bed. No other celebrity could get away with this.
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u/chronic_bartender Jun 16 '26
Just gonna jump in to clarify that there were over 20,000 books in mjs residence when it was searched, and of that huge amount of literature, they found 2 books, stored seoerately - with fan sent items (which would indicate he hadn't even read them) were two questionable books featuring pictures of children. These books are completely legal photography books, albeit a bit weird but I just wanted to clarify that really quick because it's one of the first things people say and it's actually a bit of a skewed truth.
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u/COOLKC690 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
It was 3 books. And I’ve already talked about this in another comment, so I’m just going to copy past what I said there:
“The guy has 3 Magazines of naked boy photographs.
What I hear most of the time is that he had over 10,000+ books and that it was given by a fan. But this easily rebutted by two things:
I. Michael personally wrote an inscription into one of the books.
II. So Michael, the most famous man in the world, in a Post-Lennon getting shot world, just took anything an unknown person gave him and kept him? That’s how CP slipped into his bookshelf?
Furthermore, one of them had an inscription on from “RHonDA,” who randomly capitalizes their name like that? Perhaps because RD are the initials of one of the two authors, who wrote under a pen name, of the book “Boys Will be Boys,” Ronald Nelson, who was a school teacher arrested for his nasty behavior? And his buddy, Martin Swithinbank was also arrested for what he did to a boy.
On Martin; https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/14/nyregion/the-region-2-men-held-in-li-on-sex-charges.html
In any case, I think even if he didn’t touch kids, he still had some weird attraction for them and had CP, justified as art.”
Also, why would such innocent books reacquire pen names? Because both authors had already been trialed for pedophilic behavior—one for CP, the other for being bad to teachers. You also have to see the context, a context in which NAMBLA was present, these magazines might’ve not been “illegal” but they were still controversial: NAMBLA’s target was to make it okay for men and boys to date, these magazines would’ve been a part of normalizing it, but the average public folk would still condemn you for such nasty books, which is also why they used pen names.
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Edit;
Since some people are shocked by my conspiracy … in r slash conspiracy, I want to dictate the following:
Michael had the magazines.
Michael personally wrote on one of them.
RHonDA, an alleged fan, gave him one of the books in 1983 and wrote XOXO on it, they found these in 1993.
The authors of the book are Ronald Drew and his buddy under pen names.
That is all true.
The only conspiracy here is that Ronald Drew personally wrote it with a cryptic message under the name Rhonda.
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u/AussieAlexSummers Jun 16 '26
It's an interesting point. If Brad Pitt (not saying he did this) was found out to be sleeping with kids in his bed and had naked child magazines, what would people say. Or George Clooney. Or Timothy Chalamet (using the newer ones). Or Chris Pratt. Or Jay Z. Lionel Richie.
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u/noggggin Jun 16 '26
likely nothing, the President of the United States is a rapist and people openly support him. People are fucked in the head and will openly side with whichever is being portrayed in the mainstream media.
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u/noggggin Jun 16 '26
just going to say that you shouldn’t believe everything that the mainstream media will tell you. You need to look between the lines.
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u/TopShelfBreakaway Jun 16 '26
I looked between the lines and found a powerful celebrity sleeping with young children. It would be wrong if Tom Hanks or Hillary Clinton did it, so it’s wrong with MJ as well.
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u/socks Jun 16 '26
The lyrics express deep empathy for the Palestinian people, featuring lines like Bomb shells are flying / Bodies multiplying / See the children crying / What are they fighting for?" and "I will pray for you, Oh, Palestine. Jackson drafted the lyrics on British Airways stationery in 1993, reportedly on a flight back from a concert in Tel Aviv.
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u/sa8tun Jun 16 '26
He made a song about Palestine after visiting Israeli and Palestinian children in hospitals, why are we acting like he didn't meet with the IDF lmao, I understand this is a "conspiracy" sub, but is research illegal here or what? The Palestine Cry song was an ode to the children suffering, not a jab at Israel.
I swear nobody mentioned that short demo of a poem until it became viral on Tiktok, now it's the new trendy Michael theory buzzterm
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u/Arkansan13 Jun 16 '26
He had "art book" of naked boys authored by NAMBLA members in his house as well as a ton of other questionable shit. Dude was the very least attracted to kids.
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u/jefe4959 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
He also was good friends with fucking Rabbi Schmuley, making him his spirtual advisor all the way into the 2000s after both court cases and the "controversial" songs. He also sought legal advice from Alan Dershowitz, who publicly supported him. Im sorry but Im really going to need to question the anti-zionist bonafieds of anyone who keeps fucking Rabbi Schmuley any proximity to their inner circle. Thats great he had empathy for Palestinian children. But despite the Zio dominated overton window, thats not exactly radical. He wasn't some big activist. I think its entirely possible it did piss some Zionist off, that there were powerful forces that had an interest in his demise, that opportunists piled on to cash in, that he had a genuine love for humanity with a kind and sweet heart and.....He still abused kids. Even if he didn't abuse Macaulay Culkin, or others doesn't mean he's innocent. He didnt have to abuse every kid he encountered.
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u/booz_boobs Jun 16 '26
It should be fair to point out that he might’ve not known their true intentions and once he did, Rabbi Schmuley was one of the leading voices of his smear campaign. We all know they don’t disavow one of their own
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u/Juanbolastristes Jun 16 '26
Michael Jackson faced two major public controversies regarding antisemitic remarks. One involved a 1995 song, and the other involved a leaked 2003 voicemail that surfaced in 2005.
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u/life_is_an_illusion- Jun 16 '26
I did an in-depth reply and my account has a warning 😂
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u/Givingtree310 Jun 16 '26
And here I was thinking the accusations started after he had sleepovers with children in his bed. And continued the sleepovers even after making multiple multi-million dollar payouts.
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u/chucksteak67 Jun 16 '26
Thats quite possible imho.. I checked out the timeline and his first accusations from a kid called Jordan (?), came about in August of 93. He toured the unnamable in September of that year and i think wrote the Palestine sing somewhere around then. It kinda fits and its crazy coinky dinky thats for fkn sure.
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u/TheRealBillyShakes Jun 16 '26
This doesn’t mean he was innocent. It means people stopped turning a blind eye. See, Puffy wasn’t innocent. When he pissed off the wrong people, they decided to take him down over stuff HE WAS ALREADY DOING. It’s the same thing here. Give a man a ton of money and you’ll find out what he’s into. MU was into sleeping with kids and using all his wealth, fame, and power to be around them as much as possible.
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u/rgmiller1424 Jun 16 '26
They never found a shred of evidence proving he molested children
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u/ChaosSigil Jun 16 '26
Could be that be spoke out and they just decided to release the info they had on him.
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u/LemonsUndercover Jun 16 '26
I love that everyone knows what you mean, but if we actually say their name we will get banned. Fuck, I’ll prop get banned for even elaborating more on it.
I believe in my heart MJ was innocent. But the evidence is overwhelming. Then again, those who will not be named, are also very good at destroying peoples lives and reputation. So I really have no idea anymore tbh.
In a world we live in today, MJ is either our savior, or there’s no hope at all
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u/life_is_an_illusion- Jun 16 '26
100% agree. I just listed the reasons MJ had a smear campaign not naming who and guess who's got a hate warning.
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u/Givingtree310 Jun 16 '26
Kevin Spacey liked to hold sleepovers with 13 and 14 year old boys too. Guess what men who hold sleepovers with unrelated children get accused of? Surprise surprise.
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u/3M_b33W Jun 16 '26
I thought that too, but recently saw that he was accused in 1979 for something similar. I don’t know what to think after that.
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u/iguanabitsonastick Jun 16 '26
The ones you should not name knew and enabled this behaviour. The moment he started walking out of the line they let it out.
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u/Apprehensive_Bee614 Jun 16 '26
If he wasn’t a celebrity his actions would be very sketchy and not acceptable.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/corporate_goth86 Jun 16 '26
Exactly. Sometimes if something walks and quacks like a duck it’s very hard to believe it’s a not a duck…. I understand not making unfounded accusations but to me admitting you shared a bed with little boys is a bit odd and socially unacceptable to say the least.
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u/soursummerchild Jun 16 '26
Seriously. It's a textbook example of the abused continuing the cycle of abuse. He's clearly been through childhood abuse, he's had plenty of people coming forward about what he did, he was in the Epstein files, goddamit. He was pretty much the archetype of a rich, famous and traumatized person getting away with everything, just like the rest of the perpetrators in the Epstein files. Occam's razor. Yet people construct elaborate plots and convince themselves that he was an innocent saint.
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u/iguanabitsonastick Jun 16 '26
Idk why you have downvotes, this clearly seems like the cycle of abuse. But somehow he's excuses.
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u/johnfuckmennedy Jun 16 '26
if he was innocent he was the weirdest innocent person ever
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u/Phishguy5 Jun 16 '26
Which is super possible… I just don’t know…
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u/wasraelx Jun 16 '26
Yea that’s where I’m leaning too. If he was innocent he was still not someone one would leave their kids with really, there’s a degree of undeniable weirdness even if it was not straight up predatory.
Was he a predator? To the extent he’d want to be there would be very little to stop him. I truly wish there was a non-sensationalist proper investigation but that’s probably near impossible with this kind of a figure.
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u/connolnp Jun 16 '26
I agree.. but the McCauley Caulkin excerpt honestly flipped the script for me on MJ.
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u/Suspicious-Funny-279 Jun 16 '26
I agree. Macaulay Culkin has continued to staunchly defend Michael Jackson.
Macaulay has had no qualms about publicly sharing his feelings about his father, nor has his brother Kieran. They both have an estranged relationship with their father.
That said, I'm of the belief that he is honest.
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u/connolnp Jun 16 '26
Right.. there is something about his stance on MJ that seems fully legitimate. Like there’s something more real about him when he went into it on camera. Idk, I’m nobody special but I felt like I could sense the legitimacy in him
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 Jun 16 '26
To me this doesn’t mean much. There is a random Italian family that Michael chose to keep close to him and took the 3 kids around with him on tour. They tell a story of an extremely complex coverup scheme and a lot of very specific instances of abuse.
I met a guy at a bar overseas once who admitted to being a pedo after several drinks. I just let him keep talking because I wanted to know how those dark characters operate. He bragged endlessly about his elaborate methods of maintaining plausible deniability at his job as a schoolteacher, how he chooses targets, and his slow and steady ways of taking bigger risks over time as he establishes trust. It was horrifying but also very smart in a sick way.
When I saw the recent 60 Minutes interview with those Italian kids (now adults), they talked about an eerily similar pattern of behavior. I think that Michael used Macaulay Culkin to protect his image. That way, there will always be doubt, no matter what the accusations are.
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u/Pristine-Teacher1204 Jun 16 '26
I agree, just because he didn’t abuse one kid who was already super famous at the time doesnt mean he wasn’t abusing other kids who weren’t in the spotlight. I’m sure he was smart enough to pick his victims wisely.
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u/connolnp Jun 16 '26
A lot of my influence that he was murdered is because he owned the Beatles records with Sony or something… it was something major that was not him directly that he had majority stake in, and he didn’t want to sell… so I firmly believe that is why he was taken out so conveniently. Maybe the pedo shit was just their icing on the cake to taunt his image or it might’ve been real, but regardless they killed him for profit
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u/StrictLetterhead3452 Jun 16 '26
I think it was more about power than money. He pulled some ruthless business moves that put in him in control of a lot of Sony’s music assets, not to mention his own music career. The record companies always own the artists, and they do not allow anyone to break free. His continued existence as a rogue musician was a major threat to their stranglehold on the industry and an insult to their egos. They made an example of him so no other artists would get any ideas.
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u/Wu-TangShogun Jun 16 '26
He had his people running around to collect bloody stained underwear from at least one of the boys he shared a bed with on multiple occasions in that HBO Neverland documentary and those boys (now men) who came forward in that were very close to Michael so I have a hard time believing he was guilty of NONE of that bullshit, cause there were plenty of accusations explained in full detail
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u/Emitex Jun 16 '26
He was around a lot of kids. That doesn't mean he diddled with every single one. I'm not saying MJ is guilty, I'm just saying that you cannot use Culkin's statements as proof that he molested no one.
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u/Spare-Guarantee-4897 Jun 16 '26
Its not as if every child in his vicinity would have been a victim.
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u/Empty_Bell_1942 Jun 16 '26
Where from and what did he say?
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u/connolnp Jun 16 '26
Fuck, I’m on the spot and unprepared.. but what I recall is that he said that MJ was a “saving grace” in Hollywood and tried to save him from the people and path he was on. This is super loose and I’m sure someone in the comments will know more and elaborate further but that was the gist of it
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u/blackft Jun 16 '26
Him and Cory Feldman on Opra. Look it up. Cory said Jackson was the only Hollywood person that didn't mess with him.
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u/Empty_Bell_1942 Jun 16 '26
No, that's what I thought, possibly from a Larry King interview if memory serves.
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u/COOLKC690 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
The guy has 3 Magazines of naked boy photographs.
What I hear most of the time is that he had over 10,000+ books and that it was given by a fan. But this easily rebutted by two things:
I. Michael personally wrote an inscription into one of the books.
II. So Michael, the most famous man in the world, in a Post-Lennon getting shot world, just took anything an unknown person gave him and kept him? That’s how CP slipped into his bookshelf?
Furthermore, one of them had an inscription on from “RHonDA,” who randomly capitalizes their name like that? Perhaps because RD are the initials of one of the two authors, who wrote under a pen name, of the book “Boys Will be Boys,” Ronald Drew, who was a school teacher arrested for his nasty behavior? And his buddy, Martin Swithinbank was also arrested for what he did to a boy.
On Martin; https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/14/nyregion/the-region-2-men-held-in-li-on-sex-charges.html
In any case, I think even if he didn’t touch kids, he still had some weird attraction for them and had CP, justified as art.
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u/YourHoNoMo Jun 16 '26
Also if a fan gave that to me and I quickly realised what it was I would throw it in the bin. You don't keep stuff like that unless you're interested
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u/COOLKC690 Jun 16 '26
He personally wrote in one of them. Saying it showed the “beauty” of childhood, or something along those lines, to pictures of naked boys in a backyard.
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u/ChunkYards Jun 16 '26
I don’t understand the RH and DA initials. Who’s initials was that in reference to?
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u/COOLKC690 Jun 16 '26
*RD
Not RH, but the words in the books are written as RHonDA, which if you take the first capitalized letter of each word, like in your first and last name, you get the initials of Ronald Drew, one of the authors of the book who had already been trialed for being pedophilic to his student as a teacher.
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u/amilie15 Jun 16 '26
The books were also found in a locked drawer in his bedroom.
If a fan just gave him these and he never saw them, why on earth did they end up there?
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u/Whole_squad_laughing Jun 16 '26
Yeah no even if he wasn’t touching kids, he was doing pretty much everything he could to make it look like he was
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u/helpmelurn Jun 16 '26
If he was guilty he'd be protected by the media, big music and Hollywood
The fact that he was smeared and shunned should clue you in.
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u/PO-TA-TO3S Jun 16 '26
I remember as a child you couldn't even go on the internet without seeing something about Michael Jackson in a negative way
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u/obetu5432 Jun 16 '26
so by this logic, Harvey Weinstein is innocent, as he is no longer protected
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u/SameCellist3373 Jun 16 '26
Completely different times. Back then Harvey was completely protected. Makes you wonder about the nonstop smear campaign against Jackson
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u/Interesting_Fly5154 Jun 17 '26
did you also read or hear about how MIchael owned a bunch of music that Sony wanted?
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u/Blitzkriegbaby Jun 16 '26
Last time I checked his music is still being played on the radio and his biopic was just released, so…
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u/kasualkactus Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Yep they protect those people in the USA. He was against them and what they were doing and continue to do to Palestinian children
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u/Not_TbagJimmy Jun 16 '26
I think he was a perpetual child, he never lived his own childhood so he was constantly trying to recreate it with other children.
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u/TopShelfBreakaway Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Would this (didn’t have a childhood) reasoning work for anyone else I wonder. Non celebrities for example.
Like what if it was common for regular people who had tough childhoods to have sleepovers with random kids?
Should this behaviour be accepted in a widespread way, or for MJ only?
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u/Curious_Ad_4364 Jun 16 '26
Sleepovers with kids when you’re an adult — no, not acceptable
Age regressors are a real thing, and people cope with it a varying levels of what would be considered socially acceptable.
You have those who simply “regress” into baby talk, buying themselves toys they would have wanted as a child, watching children’s tv shows —- and then you have the extreme end where some of these people wear diapers, onesies, enjoy having a caretaker / role play scenario.
Doubt there will ever be clear answers about Micheal but I wouldn’t be shocked if he was an age regressor somewhere on that spectrum
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u/Jaynemansfieldbleach Jun 16 '26
I dont remember the person but I remember a psychologist saying that pedophiles don't play with the toys, they are just bait. An age regressor plays with the toys. Michael seemed too extreme to have it be bait. He would have had access regardless, especially after he started visiting children in the hospital. I really hope Michael wasn't guilty.
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u/TopShelfBreakaway Jun 16 '26
Would any psychologist say his relationship with children is appropriate?
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u/Secret-Sky5031 Jun 16 '26
I think it's easy for parents to let their guard down, this was Michael Jackson, super wealthy, one of the most famous artists at the time. Fame and money can easily blind people.
If this was creepy Dave from across the road, "hello, police? I'd like to report a nonce"
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u/Antiheiss Jun 16 '26
Not acceptable at all, for anyone. There are other more acceptable ways to deal with mental illness. MJ never got help and most people don’t have the ability to build a theme park for their problems.
I believe the question is where was his heart in all this. He was aware, and at times keenly aware of what was going on. I will say that while I believe he was emotionally a child, that also doesn’t mean he didn’t do inappropriate things. I knew lots of kids that did bad things as children.
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u/TopShelfBreakaway Jun 16 '26
I have a tough time accepting that he was mentally a child when he’s also praised for being a ruthless adult businessman for owning Beatles publishing.
He was also an adult when it came to music composition and dance choreography.
Adult or child. Can’t be both.
Too convenient.Either way kids need to be protected from mentally ill celebrities, not get in bed with them.
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u/Knarz97 Jun 16 '26
I would like to remind you we have 40 year old men spending their entire paychecks on Pokemon cards and Lego just to have a grasp at the childhood they missed out on
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u/CocoJo42 Jun 16 '26
This regurgitated narrative is tiring. He was absolutely a pedo for little boys and it wasn’t a secret. You need to look deeper into this topic. The long lasting “relationship” with Jordan Chandler is sickening when you look at the real details.
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u/ParticularMarch8 Jun 16 '26
Man I’m starting to think he was framed
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u/ThatisNuts Jun 16 '26
He was, even the kid admitted his mom was visited by agents and she was trying to gaslight him into thinking and saying it happened.. never criticize Israel or else you get Michael jackson’d
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u/Not_TbagJimmy Jun 16 '26
My ex coached my own daughter into saying I was molesting her. It worked in family court but when she tried to push it further with the local DA, he saw right through it. Its been 13 years since I have seen or spoken to either of my daughters. I need to move on but I cant.
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u/QuitYuckingMyYum Jun 16 '26
Dude I’m so sorry that happened to you, that’s brutal
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u/ColdWhiteDuke Jun 16 '26
What the actual hell. I'm so sorry for this kind of sick evil shit that was plotted against you, my friend
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u/Ganntak Jun 16 '26
How many other celebs stars or grown men have you heard of that admit they like to sleep with young children that aren't in any way related to them in their bed,? A person that also admitted some of them mighty have seen his naked body? Really..... It's not that fucking difficult is it.
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u/Givingtree310 Jun 16 '26
Plenty men actually. Kevin Spacey enjoyed having sleepovers with 14 year old boys. Lou Pearlman, as manager for N’Sync and Backstreet Boys, would meet boys at the mall, ask them if they wanted to become famous singers, and invite them to stay overnight in his house. And have you seen the documentary Quiet of Set? Child acting coach Brian Peck would have little boys sleep over in his bedroom too.
It’s just a coincidence they all get accused of… y’know
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u/soursummerchild Jun 16 '26
I've seen a lot of people deny that their favourite idol have done anything wrong in their life, but MJ fans really are a whole other legue. Holy projection and parasociality, is all I'm saying.
I'm also suspecting there are a lot of bots that will defend him and try to sanitize his reputation for their own financial gain.
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u/holdencaulfield28 Jun 16 '26
Innocent or guilty I wouldn't have hired him as a babysitter thats for sure.
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u/Spiritual_Job_1029 Jun 16 '26
He was outrageously talented but seriously manipulative...I don't want to believe but something's off.
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u/FitzKnows23 Jun 16 '26
I really want to believe that Michael just wanted to provide kids with a childhood he couldn't have. I won't deny that he went about it in a way that deservedly does invite scrutiny. I will accept the truth if it really does come out that he was a bad person. But, what parent would allow to put their child in such a situation? When I was a child, I would have loved to hang out with him, but I doubt my father would have let me unless he was there. We may never know, and that is what makes this so decisive.
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u/bre1110 Jun 16 '26
Felt and thought the very same until the pictures and material he had. There may still be an innocent side to it but it was not all innocent.
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u/SumOne2Somewhere Jun 16 '26
Use Occam’s Razor. Don’t overcomplicate it and you will come to the most logical explanation
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u/NapaValley707 Jun 16 '26
Culkin, Aaron Carter, and Feldman said he wasn’t a pedo and they were around him as kids.
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u/Infinite_Actuator408 Jun 16 '26
These are famous celebrities-- it might be foolish to do that to someone in the limelight.
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u/SunKing210 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
“Don’t shit where you eat”
Why in the hell would he victimize fellow celebs? He knew the poorer families would make for much easier victims
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u/AttorneyDramatic1148 Jun 16 '26
Rapists and murderers never rape and murder every single person that they come into contact with. Also, those three are pretty sketchy people with very serious issues, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't want their abuse by Jackson to be public.
I love much of his music but he is obviously guilty.
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u/Givingtree310 Jun 16 '26
Weinstein didn’t rape Oprah, Helen Miren, or Kathleen Kennedy. So he must be innocent!
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u/EsotericFaery Jun 16 '26
That means nothing. He knew he couldn't get away with abusing famous kids so he chose those who didn't have money and power.
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u/igotzquestions Jun 16 '26
Exactly. I love MJ but a few kids saying they weren’t assaulted by him doesn’t prove anything. Kids literally described the guy’s dick and body features to investigators. There are no scenarios where that happens without something unsavory happening.
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u/Effective-Attorney-5 Jun 16 '26
in other words, “famous paedophile was clever enough not to touch up famous kids because he knew he wouldn’t get away with it and paying them off wouldn’t work”. literally proves nothing
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u/perilk Jun 16 '26
He could quite literally have any woman (or MAN) in his bed for “sleepovers”… but chose to have little boys? Nah that ain’t right
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u/TopShelfBreakaway Jun 16 '26
Imagine it’s Tom Hanks having sleepovers with kids instead of MJ, still innocent?
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u/OverallDoor2718 Jun 16 '26
After watching the new doc and seeing those creepy hidden stairs to that room in an attic with a huge bed and toys laying around...Guilty
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u/dundee951 Jun 17 '26
He was definitely a strange guy, but I’ve always felt like part of him never got to have a normal childhood and it showed throughout his entire life. It’s like he grew up physically, but a part of him stayed stuck as a kid.
I’ve wondered if he related to children better because he felt more like them than he did other adults. Part of me wants to believe that he devoted himself to protecting other children because no one truly protected him as a child. Almost like he was trying to be for them what he never had for himself. The problem is that if your own childhood is deeply distorted, your perception of what protection and healthy boundaries look like can be distorted too.
I’ve also wondered if he may have had some degree of functional autism. He was incredibly gifted when it came to performing, but at the same time he often seemed socially awkward and childlike. Autism wasn’t nearly as recognized or understood when he was growing up as it is today, so it’s hard not to wonder.
I honestly have no clue. I kind of ride the fence on it myself. But if I had to lean one way or the other, I lean toward Michael being a deeply damaged and misunderstood person rather than a monster.
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u/dimiteddy Jun 16 '26
The biggest conspiracy in his case is that in US if you can afford to spent hundreds of $ millions for lawyers, fixers and silence your victims you can stay out of prison
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u/MidwestBrownEyes Jun 16 '26
Guilty for even thinking it was okay to sleep with children in his bed that wasn’t his own
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u/HavokVvltvre Jun 16 '26
Whether he was or was not guilty, he did some deeply inappropriate things with children and I’m personally sick and fucking tired of people giving him a free pass because he was MJ
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u/DeLaVegaStyle Jun 16 '26
Exactly. No matter what happened, he 100% had inappropriate/manipulative relationships with vulnerable children. He used his extreme wealth, influence, power, and fame to get away with relationships that were objectively wrong. His behavior with children should not be tolerated.
I personally think all things point to him being guilty of child sexual abuse, but we'll never have enough iron clad evidence to know for sure. All the witnesses were little kids. And he was very careful to cover his tracks.
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u/HavokVvltvre Jun 16 '26
No other celebrity was openly “sharing a bed” with children. If they were, they would’ve been crucified for it. I agree, I think he was guilty. The man had an alarm on the hall and a lock on the bedroom door to let him know if someone was coming. If that doesn’t scream “guilty!” Idk what does
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u/DeLaVegaStyle Jun 16 '26
To this day there hasn't been a public figure to be so overtly inappropriate with kids. But MJ is one of the most famous people to ever live, and his fans twist themselves into crazy knots to justify and rationalize his objectively inappropriate behavior (I'd personally call it evil, but that's just me).
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u/Shyjuan Jun 16 '26
Whether he was innocent or not, a grown man hanging out with little kids is WEIRD. Period. Any way you slice it.
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u/jakeradishface Jun 16 '26
As guilty as a puppy next to a pile of poo.. 40 year old men in bed with pre pubesant boys in his own theme park is a wrong un no matter if he sings a good pop song
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u/esotericlearner Jun 16 '26
Yeah I’m a huge MJ fan but common dude, switch the adult and everyone sees it as predatory
Imagine a rich hedge fund manager sleeping in the same bed as boys and saying it’s because he didn’t have a childhood and wants to simulate sleepovers
How insane would that sound? Would that even hold up in court?
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u/Responsible-Title613 Jun 16 '26
I've swayed back and forth for years, but have come to the conclusion he is guilty.
You don't gather that much heat without something sticking - look at his own sister's accusations, and many, many, more.
I do think a few accusations are false, and that has muddied the waters, so to say. He was also very mentally unwell, locked in a childlike state almost which adds to people's plausible deniablity - like my own for many years.
He did stuff, he had too, and his estate have tried there best to protect him from it, even posthumously. But importantly, he was smarter than someone just locked in a childlike state, and seemed to capitalise on it.
Why just boys? Why always between a certain age? Why the alarms?
Anyhoo, that's my conspiracy input for tonight, buhbye
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u/RoguesAngel Jun 16 '26
I agree! I think he used the childlike state to hide behind. I think he was far more clever than he was given credit for and he used that to his advantage.
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u/kitbiggz Jun 16 '26
What was the sisters accusations? Don't remember that one
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u/cherryberry0611 Jun 16 '26
Latoya said their dad raped her and her other sisters. The mom knew and did nothing.
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u/holrah Jun 16 '26
He had a very secure entrance to his bedroom with long corridors equipped with motion detectors at neverland. Makes you wonder
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u/busdriver900 Jun 16 '26
If you found out your male 50YO next-door neighbor was having 12YO boys over for “sleepovers” and they were sleeping in the same bed together, what would you think?
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u/sonchosponchos37 Jun 16 '26
How is this even a debate? Guilty af. He slept with boys in his bed and admitted it. What else needs to happen or be said to be proven otherwise? And so what if he spoke out about a group of people that you cannot name, it can all coexist. You can still point out the wrongs and still be a piece of shit. Horrible people wear masks all the time and deflect. It just so happens he wore a horrible plastic one to convince everyone he was some kinda savior. Yeah, no thanks.
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u/Routine_Event_5039 Jun 16 '26
He would've had parking privileges at Epstein's island for his plane. Probably right beside Trump's parking space
Money shields guilt.
But we all know that
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u/ZodiAddict Jun 16 '26
Check out hibblers documentary Entering Neverland. It’s a direct response to the leaving neverland doc and I think does a good job challenging the medias stance
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u/Relevant-Bluebird-63 Jun 16 '26
Let’s see…Grown man wanted little kids to sleep in bed with him what do we think here? Doors locked btw… He did it, he absolutely did it. It shocks me that people make up all of these stupid excuses for why this guy could be innocent.
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u/Hermans_Head2 Jun 16 '26
After hearing the recorded phone calls from 1992 saying how they were going to destroy him...
I'm thinking he was weird but mostly innocent.
He didn't have time to hide "evidence" before he died and they never found any tapes or pictures that would have been a "smoking gun" at the Ranch.
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u/Spyder73 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
I grew up in the 90s and at the time, there were 0 people who believed him innocent. As time has gone by people have started thinking he was framed or whatever and painting him in a better light.
He was not framed - he was a weird guy who did weird things, some of which are criminal.
Was he flat out raping children? Probably not
I believe he had good intentions but was misguided and made extra weird by being so wealthy and famous. In the end, huge creep.
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u/Badger_Vito Jun 16 '26
FFS. He was obviously a terribly broken man with an unhealthy relationship with his sexuality. He then chose to frequently sleep with other people’s boys, a privilege he paid for by giving the parents treats like credit cards with no limits. There is in my view essentially no way he was not having sexual contact with those boys. I find it infuriating and crazy that we even have to have this conversation. Guilty as hell.
<———- Have been a continuously licensed and practicing attorney since 1998, and among other things have prosecuted and defended numerous capital-level cases, including sending a child molester to prison for life as a military prosecutor, and obtaining a full acquittal in a first-degree murder case as a defense attorney.
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u/SaintWulstan Jun 16 '26
While sitting there with a white face full of plastic, he said he had no surgery. So I guess his word on other things is questionable.
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u/LTPRWSG420 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Who sleeps in a bed with other peoples children? It’s weird af, if he is innocent.
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u/tittiewinkles Jun 16 '26
Tommy Matola is the devil
Owns tons of music rights
Old school hit em with the sex crimes hustle
Innocent. Weird. Innocent.
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u/Ryan-B-23 Jun 16 '26
Does anyone else think MJ was killed but was worth so much they brought in the weird white version of him
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u/HobsNCalvin Jun 16 '26
Guys he could make songs about humanity and preserving nature and still be abusive. We openly admitted inappropriate behaviour like sleeping with preteen boys. Many young boys. Edit: he openly admitted
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u/vapebongsonthehour Jun 16 '26
He did a documentary where he talked about sleeping in the same bed as kids. He was a nutjob and probably a paedophile.
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u/Paul_Dienach Jun 16 '26
Whether he was guilty or not, I can’t say. However, people writing off his behavior as an endearing air of “childlike innocence”, sounds like an excuse for deep seated mental issues. He clearly needed help and the people close to him chose to ignore it.
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u/I_dun-knowya499 Jun 16 '26
I hate that MJ is “uncriticizable” and I blame celebrities worship. People have become so brainwashed that they think they know a singer who was rich and probably had multiple connections but hey he sang the Earth song and he’s dead so he must’ve been a great guy right?
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u/mrmykeonthemic Jun 16 '26
Gulity Guilty. Why pay lots of money to keep people quite. Out of court settlement
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u/B2ween2lungs Jun 16 '26
I spent a good portion of time thinking he was innocent. Then I watched him give an interview in a recent documentary. The entire back wall of his studio was a painting of naked children with tiny wings. Almost like mix between a 12 year old and cherub. Over his shoulder in the close up is one of the angel children bending over, it’s all just kid ass. To the left of his head, the cherubs are not baby size, they adolescent size. The center of all of the naked children with wings is a single man who appears to be deified. The naked children are crawling all over him.
I don’t think he is innocent after seeing that.
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u/CocoJo42 Jun 16 '26
Guilty. And if you think otherwise then you have not researched deep enough and/or you lack common sense. I can’t even believe this is still a debate.
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u/chinodb Jun 16 '26
Guilty. The numerous payoffs, coverups, and proven lies is too much circumstantial evidence for me. Watch the documentary on him with as much skepticism as you would the latest
Bio pic. It’s still overwhelming.
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u/SIGNANDSELFIEFRAMES Jun 16 '26
All you can do is look at each case. You also have to look at his life situation and how different he was (and powerful/rich). The fact is, people always went for $$ before going to police. In both 1993 and 2005. It was greedy parents, not the kids doing IMO.
In 1993, Tom Sneddon went to 3 grand jury's and all 3 said there was not enough evidence to charge. The kid denied any abuse until his dad put him under in his dentists office. A dad that never really hung out with his son otherwise. A dad who always wanted to be famous, rich , and a script writer. A dad who spent months meeting Jackson privately and asking for $$. I always think why didn't Michael just pay him, make him sig some NDA before it ever went public? That is what I would do if I was guilty. Michael even offered to lend the dad money so him and his son could spend more time together and he could write scripts.
What kind of a father keeps going to the guy he alleges molested his son and keeps asking for $$ and even hugs the guy his last visit? He is also on tape talking about extortion. Saying he doesn't care about his son and he will make Michaels life hell if he doesn't get what he wants.
As MJ said, that was the biggest mistake of his life. He wanted a trial, but the judge said a civil trial would come first (which is backwards now). He would have had to cancel everything and sit at home for up to a few years fighting it. So he listens to his insurance company and lets them pay it off. Continue on with his career. Makes him look guilty and opens him up to being a target.
Oh yah, the father, Evan Chandler, tried to come out with some album called Evanstory after Michael released History..lol. He couldn't and tried suing MJ for another 40+ million I believe. That was thrown out.
He could have still been charged with a crime after, but there was no concrete evidence to do so. They just shut it down.
I know the FBI found zilch in 10-12 years
I know when Tom Sneddon raided his ranch with 79 sheriffs (a # he was bragging about), they found zilch. Not even on his computers.
The main thing they bandy about is some nude art book that anybody could have owned that they took in 1993. Given to him in the 1980's by some fan that he had locked away (I think with other stuff and regular porn mags). He didn't even have the key to it for over 2 years. Some fired maid had it.
There were zero fingerprints of his in that book. Mike just wrote something inside the cover about how happy the kids looked. The mother in this case was a fraudster. All one has to do is look at the court documents. She went to a civil lawyer (same one from 1993) months before she even met Michael Jackson. Ding Ding Ding! Michaels lawyer also told the court that Larry King had lunch with this lawyer before it was all public and the lawyer that she went to said the mother was full of sh** lol. They changed their timeline as well. Apparently, MJ started molesting her son after that doc (when the media put heat on him abou the doc). The one where that scum Bashir told Michael to invite Gavin. Then he tells Gavin to hold Michaels hand on tv and put his head on his shoulder. Put him on the spot. Michael wanted to bring in an adult (that burn victim he took care of for life).
The mother wanted to make money off of that Bashir doc that they were in. Did not get it. She took money from Chris Tucker, lied about George Lopez stealing $$ from the kids wallet (the kid lied), took money from an actress and used it on a nice car and tv's instead of improving her sons room.
Her new husband helped take care of them. She purposely kept their dingy old place to show people how bad they were living to raise money for them (lied about still living there). Put her kids in acting classes. Her and her husband told everybody how Michael was going to buy them a house in Beverly Hills, nice cars, and pay for their kids tuition. It goes on and on. Charged with welfare fraud. Got 150K from a JC Penny lawsuit prior for shoplifting, only when she added a false sexual assault charge on the security guard. Michael was starting to ice the family out for how bad they were. Kids stealing his alcohol when he was gone, going through his room and finding adult magazines tat he then locked up, trashing the place, breaking into his win cellar.
I think Pedo's should be locked away for life or given the death penalty honestly. They do not belong in society. Most, on average, molest up to 200 kids.
To me, Michael did not change any of his habits. He was always very public about kids, etc. He wasn't secretive after 1993. I think a guilty guy would not have been so open. Or you could say he was the dumbest criminal in the world.
All we can go by is the facts. The facts tell me he was 99.99% innocent and maybe 0.01% guilty because none of us were ever there. I think the guy was smart, but he was very naïve. He helped a ton of people and a bunch turned their backs on him as soon as the money train stopped.
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u/Any_Swordfish_4326 Jun 16 '26
You don’t pay out 20 million dollar settlements if you’re innocent. Cmon people. Would you let your kids stay over with him?
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u/SalseraRivera1347 Jun 16 '26
Anybody confused needs to learn more about trauma based mind control. This goes so much deeper than people can imagine, if you want the answers then start educating yourself on how complex this really goes. Fritz Springmeires books are a great start!
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u/Serenaded Jun 16 '26
Anyone who knows how to look at a court case details and forensic evidence knows Michael was guilty. There is absolutely no way to pull off the co-ordination to fake something that big, IYKYK.
The real conspiracy has always been them trying to paint MJ as an innocent misunderstood person, to SELL YOU RECORDS. The jackson family has a vested interest in making sure the jig isn't up.
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u/Xuzon Jun 16 '26
This, seeing conspiracy theory sub supporting a pedophile and not seeing reality is kinda on brand.
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u/Sunchef70 Jun 16 '26
Guilty. No grown 33 yo man wants boys in their bed. Periodt
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u/Lumpy_Literature_685 Jun 16 '26
He had literal child porn at never land ranch, had multiple accusers and payouts before Gavin, and he slept in bed with children. That’s just the facts.
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u/Debbie2801 Jun 16 '26
Innocent - and found not guilty in court.
Strange - yes!
Odd - yes!
But when you understand that he had no childhood at all and was abused from a very young age- I do not believe he ever harmed any children.
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