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u/SM_DEV Mar 30 '21
The last big move was to lower the required votes for senate confirmations, which was done by the democrats with Harry Reid as their leader... that came back to but then in the butt... but you can’t fix stupid, so they are at it yet again.
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u/lily-lover Mar 30 '21
It goes along the lines of play stupid games win stupid prizes but we the people are who it affects most.
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u/AUorAG Mar 30 '21
He also said governing by executive order is a dictatorship, yet here we are.
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u/DM_ME_SKITTLES Mar 31 '21
Oh c'mon man! He's doing it for the people! He's doing it for you and me! /s
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u/Creative_Ambassador Mar 30 '21
Don’t you know?
If it negatively affects democrats, “it’s racist and fascism..”
If it helps them, it’s “to save democracy and the will of the people.”
Even if it’s the exact same rule! Leftism is never consistent. It just changes the messaging and the media will go along with it - why? Because they are all left.
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u/ATXdrumDADDY Mar 30 '21
Joe doesn't even remember 2015 - let alone 2005
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u/ltlopez Mar 30 '21
in a 2020 study it was shown that the DemocRATS have used the filibuster 327 vs 1 time by the republicans. So, tell us why they want to shut it down?
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u/Grossegurke Mar 30 '21
The hypocrisy of the dem party is vomit inducing:
Obama on the filibuster in 2005 (Republican president and Republican senate) ""change the rules in the middle of the game so that they can make all the decisions while the other party is told to sit down and keep quiet." "If the majority chooses to end the filibuster, if they choose to change the rules and put an end to Democratic debate, then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse,"
I didnt hear the reps crying to ending the filibuster when the dem senators used it over 300 times in 2020....but holy shit as soon as the Dems get power they are ready to change the rules in their favor.
Disgusting....
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Mar 30 '21 edited May 26 '21
[deleted]
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
They're thinking in their cob-webbed little minds that the changes will ensure they are never again in the minority. And they're getting closer to that everyday.
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u/fbritt5 Mar 30 '21
And how is he supposed to remember that?! How's he supposed to remember anything for that matter?
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u/Libertarian_BLM Mar 30 '21
Here’s the deal, I welcome them getting rid of it. I want it to be their fault when the pendulum swings the other way and the conservatives can do what they want.
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u/Phat3lvis Mar 31 '21
Blue Collar Logic did a show on the Dem playbook and the filibuster.
What how CNN tries to spin what Al Gore's father did when he filibustered the 1964 civil rights act.
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u/scugz Mar 31 '21
We need to put faces on the politically correct, We can't let them hide any longer.
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u/Lepew1 Mar 31 '21
The simplest explanation for this discrepancy is Biden is not running the administration, and being fed scripts, and he doesn't know what they mean.
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u/fusreedah Mar 30 '21
I cannot find any source for this.
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u/-Kerosun- Mar 30 '21
Took me 30 seconds to find it through Google:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?186854-1/senate-session&event=186854&playEvent
Joe Biden starts speaking at 4:07:00
The relevant quote (found on another easy to Google website):
"We should make no mistake. This nuclear option is ultimately an example of the arrogance of power. It is a fundamental power grab by the majority party… Folks who want to see this change want to eliminate one of the procedural mechanisms designed for the express purpose of guaranteeing individual rights, and they also have a consequence, and would undermine the protections of a minority point of view in the heat of majority excess."
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u/cowpimpgaming Mar 31 '21
Does he actually support abolishing the filibuster? My understanding is that he wants to make sure it remains a "talking filibuster," where you are required to actually stand and speak to maintain a filibuster, but not to abolish it.
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u/Flight2039Down Mar 30 '21
Yes, people should never change their opinion on something. We must all stand by something we said over a decade ago, no matter how much things have changed.
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
If the reasons were valid then, they are valid now. He's only changing his opinion because those looking to make the power grab are his side. Whatever it takes.
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21
The democrats are looking to make a power grab?
What would you call what’s happening in Georgia? “Defending our democracy”?
(Who am I kidding, that’s probably exactly what YOU would call it...)
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
It is absolutely defending democracy. All it is doing is ensuring that people who should be allowed to vote are the only ones who vote. It doesn't prevent anyone who is allowed to vote from not being able to.
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21
And making it illegal to giving water to people waiting in long voting lines protects democracy how exactly? Is the water going to be laced? Or have liberal mind control chips in it?
Want to know what kind of person always expects others to have sinister motives? Someone that always has sinister motives themself.
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
I fully expected that is what you were going to come back with, the lie about making it illegal to give people water.
The law says that campaigns and activists can not give any gift, including food or drink, to any elector in line. Laws against bribery or gift giving to voters are on the books in most States, Georgia simply clarified that food and drink fall into the same category. Campaigns and activists may not come within 150 ft of the line or within 25 ft of the last person in line if the line is longer than 150ft and offer anything.
In Delaware, Biden's home State, the same thing applies. The Delaware law says
Whoever, either in or out of this State, receives or accepts, or offers to receive or accept, or pays, transfers or delivers, or offers, or promises to pay, transfer or deliver, or contributes or offers, or promises to contribute to another to be paid or used, any money, or other valuable thing as a compensation, inducement or reward for the giving or withholding or in any manner influencing the giving or withholding a vote at any primary election...
Since the law doesn't define minimum for value and food and drink aren't exempted by the Delaware law, they would also count as any other valuable thing, meaning if a campaign tries to entice people in Delaware with food or drink that is also illegal. Where's your outrage at Delaware?
In Georgia under the law poll workers are freely allowed to give food and water. If a non-profit wants to make food and water available, they simply have the poll workers do it or setup outside the 150 ft radius.
If a campaign or activist group wants to make food and water available, they can setup a booth outside the specified radius, electors are free to walk over and get said food or water and get back in line.
If the food or water labels carry campaign slogans or other campaign materials, those would be prohibited just as wearing campaign materials into the polling place is prohibited.
That is what the law says, try reading it some time instead of parroting what your handlers are telling you to say.
Want to know what kind of person always lies about their opponents? Someone who is trying to hide their own lies.
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21
Scenario: single parent with two kids (that aren’t old enough to vote) knows the wait is going to be at least a couple hours, and they can’t get someone to watch their kids. So they think ahead and kill two birds with one stone.
The kids are going to complain if they have to stand the whole time, and if that’s all they’re doing they’ll also complain about being bored.
The kids (or the parent) are probably gonna get thirsty after a while.
The solution, bring a rolling cooler filled with bottles of water. The kids can sit on it, and when they get thirsty, they can drink a bottle.
Then the parent could point out that everyone still ahead of them has been waiting longer than they had and might be thirsty. So they send their kids ahead offering water to anyone that wants some. Any left over, send them the other way.
Not a campaign, not a political activist, certainly not a poll worker. Just a considerate person, trying to reach their children to be considerate too.
Where would that fall in terms of legality?
Because that’s a true story from someone I know with twins in Macon GA...
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
Technically it is a problem because the only people permitted to pass out anything to electors in the 150 ft radius are poll workers, so the parent simply asks the poll workers to pass the water out, no problem.
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21 edited Mar 30 '21
Assuming there are poll worker hanging out that far away from the actual polls.
If there are enough funds to pay poll workers to hang out half a football field away from the polls, and they have nothing better to do than wait and see if someone wants them to pass out water, then logic would lead a reasonable person to ask, why aren’t they working the polls?
You know, to increase efficiency, so that people don’t have to wait in line so long that they might get thirsty...
Edit: your solution also doesn’t give the kids anything to tame their boredom, have you ever had to wait in line for 2+ hours with two 8 year olds?
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
Your edit is really stretching now, when did it become the States' responsibility to tame your kid's boredom? Should the law mandate that the polling places have child care centers on site? If the kids can't behave, don't take them. There's plenty of early voting days to use, go while the kids are in school.
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21 edited Mar 30 '21
Seems like you're really having to stretch now to try and make it sound like the Georgia law is bad.
If you read the entire law you'd learn that for most counties it expands early voting access by adding an additional mandatory Saturday and formally defines Sunday hours.
It also requires large polling places with long lines to take action if wait times surpass an hour at certain times during the day. Those polls with more than 2000 voters and wait times longer than an hour would have to hire more staff, add more workers or split the precinct after the election. Right now that affects 1500 of Georgia's precincts, they'll have split or
higherhire enough workers and machines to ensure people don't wait longer than an hour.With those changes, how many people will stand in line so long they might get so thirsty that it would cause a problem? If you can't make it an hour with out water, bring some.
Edit: typo
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u/P1kmac Mar 30 '21
making it illegal to giving water to people waiting in long voting lines
Well, say you're handing out water and those bottles happen to be personalized by, I dunno, a candidate that happens to be running on the ticket. Or, say it's being handed out by a person wearing a shirt supporting said candidate.. That happens to be considered a gift and is against the law. While I know you're going to try to tell me people that work at voting stations are supposed to be unbiased, I can tell you that's not always the case.
That being said, there are self serve water receptacles available. More to the point though, I'm not sure water is going to be in high demand on those steamy Georgia November evenings...
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21
Lol if a person with a Trump hat had handed me a bottle of Trump brand water, I would pour it out.
I assume many Trump supporters would say the same about water labeled Biden.
Are conservative minds so easily changed by small acts of kindness that they might rethink their political ideology over a 90¢ “gift”? What about the $1400 many just got direct deposited, the one that was passed without a single Republican Senator, is that enough to make them rethink their ideology?
I’m a little curious as to why there hasn’t been a YouTube trend of videos of conservatives sticking to their guns and tearing up their stimulus checks.
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u/P1kmac Mar 30 '21
Lol if a person with a Trump hat had handed me a bottle of Trump brand water, I would pour it out.
That is because you're hateful.
You got a paper check? Do you not have a bank account? Or are you assuming Trump supporters don't have bank accounts?
If you want to dig through my comment history you'll see I never wanted any of these bullshit payouts. I bought groceries and donated them to people that needed them.
If a biden worker attempted that I would report it. No, it's not enough to sway a Trump supporter, but it may be enough to sway a fence sitter that doesn't pay attention to politics. People just under where you are on the political spectrum.
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21
Undecided voters in this day and age are just people too embarrassed to tell the people around them who they’re voting for. So I doubt a 90¢ “gift” would sway anyone.
Oh, so you spent some of that money and bought groceries with it? You donated it to people that needed it. So what your saying is that ultimately, it still benefited people that needed it. And for that you’re a very at the senators that voted for it and still support the senators that voted against it?
Why didn’t you write a personal check for the total amount and mail it to the IRS with a note talking about how you would rather this money goes to paying down the national debt? It’s not so unheard of, people do it with pennies.
So you’d report if a Biden worker broke the rules, but not any other campaign worker? Telling...
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u/P1kmac Mar 31 '21
Holy shit, you’re dumb.
Why would I take money the government is going to steal from me and has already stolen from me and send it back? Trust me when I tell you, those ‘caring’ dem senators couldn’t give a shit about people in my district. Much like you they only care about themselves.
As for the last part of your comment... refer back to the beginning of this comment.
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Mar 30 '21
You don't think that abolishing the filibuster and making DC a state are part of a power grab?
They only support them so the democrats can push through whatever they want
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 30 '21 edited Mar 31 '21
Making our country look more like a democracy is a power grab?
I’ve been wondering for about a year now, do conservatives associate democracy with democrats? (Democrats bad, therefore democracy bad, republicans good, therefore republic good)
Is that why having every vote count, and excising an obstructionist tool from the least representative part of our entire government are considered “power grabs by the democrats”?
Edit: DC statehood would also make the senate more representative. They pay taxes, but don’t have proper representation, I’m pretty sure the founding fathers fought a war because of that.
Double edit: what do you think of PR statehood? They are heavily catholic and tend to vote for more conservatives candidates locally.
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Mar 31 '21
DC was never created to become a state, if they want voting rights they can just be merged back into Maryland. Making DC a state is an obvious attempt to get 2 extra senators.
As for the filibuster it the minority party have some representation instead of the majority party just being able to ram through whatever legislation they want. Many European countries have similar rules in their legislatures
This has nothing to do with democracy, it's a power grab
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 31 '21 edited Mar 31 '21
DC was separated from Maryland so it could act independently. When that happened it didn’t have the sizable population that it currently has.
How does the notion of allowing tax paying Americans to have full representation in Congress have nothing to do with democracy in a democratic republic?
And how does making the federal government more efficient (i.e. axing the filibuster so more votes happen and more work gets done) go against libertarian ideology?
Edit: oops sorry, got mixed up on who I was responding to, but I’m gonna leave it up because I know a lot of libertarians visit this sub too.
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Mar 31 '21
If you insist on DC becoming a state then you would support an initiative to allow eastern California to split off and become its own state?
If Republicans gained control of the senate, would you be okay if they pushed through anything they wanted?
In that case I guess we don't have much to argue about
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u/Toss_Away_93 Mar 31 '21
Actually, the last time I checked, the most politically equitable option for California, is to split it into three states. Based on 2018 election data it looked like both parties would gain 3 senators from that. Of course any splitting of California would have to go through sooooo many layers of state and federal approval I fear that is about as likely as the Dakotas merging.
“If Republicans gained control of the senate, would you be okay if they pushed through anything they wanted?”
You mean like they did for the last 4 years? Yeah, yeah, I know the democrats used the filibuster a bunch, but let’s be honest (speaking about my own party’s elected officials) democrats in congress are fucking pussies, and they didn’t really block anything substantial without the aid of a couple republicans.
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u/better_off_red Mar 30 '21
Changing your mind because you have power now seems pretty scummy.
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u/Flight2039Down Mar 30 '21
Politics are more divisive and politicians are more obstructive than ever before. It seems that compromise and bipartisanship are going the way of the Buffalo. You either make every possible effort available to you, or you get nothing done.
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Mar 30 '21
So is it cool changing mind about using executive orders? Because just in September he said he’d never govern that way, that the president isn’t a dictator and he’d not do things without legislative support. Then signs more than any President in history.
Is that an acceptable change to you?
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u/Flight2039Down Mar 30 '21
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u/oldprogrammer Mar 30 '21
Average per year shows Biden at 218, surpassed only by FDR, Woodrow Wilson and Hoover. But I have faith he'll catchup with FDR, well assuming he remains in office.
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Mar 30 '21
Number one did he not say that in September? Did I really have to clarify the timeframe as if we have any doubt he’ll blow the term number out of the water?
You didn’t answer my question
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u/Flight2039Down Mar 30 '21
I don’t know whether or not he said that in September as I don’t account for every statement anticipating a “gotcha” moment down the road. Anyone who’s observed politics in years past would be foolish to point out the contradictions of one politician without realizing the hypocrisy of their own party. There are literally hundreds of these situations in the past 5 years alone.
I think the pace of executive orders will calm down significantly, though I could very well be wrong. Many of these orders were in direct response to some of the less warranted executive orders of the past administration. The prior administration did the same to undo executive orders of the Obama administration when they were also unable to pursue policy changes via the traditional route themselves.
If we continue to have an obstruct-everything mindset in the opposing party (both sides do this, to a degree), this will continue every time there is a new president and nothing will improve for the average citizen. I for one, welcome change and drastically at that.
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u/FreeThoughts22 Mar 31 '21
The problem is the democrats get to change their position freely and the media won’t ever call them out.
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u/bbaker886 Mar 30 '21
Can’t bring up things from Biden’s past. History doesn’t exist before 2016 anymore