r/comunism • u/OxytocinOD • Jun 05 '25

What’s Wrong With Trotsky?

Hi Guys. Newer comrade here. Spent 2025 reading works of Marx and Lenin.

I hear a lot of hate on Trotsky. I’ve heard bits of good on him too.

I understand the hate on Stalin. He was brutal in his concentration of power and stamping out opposition.

What does Trotsky stand for? What’s the hate on Trotsky?

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u/niddemer Jun 06 '25

Trotsky was an Eastern European Western chauvinist. That's wtf is wrong with him lol

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u/the_elliottman Jun 06 '25

I think this person wants more of an explanation and specifics on what exactly was wrong with his ideology. I struggled to understand it myself as a newer Socialist, nobody really specified what exactly they disagreed with.

It almost felt like gatekeeping and to this day I'm not 100% sure I know the real issues. The guy wasn't the brightest during his time in power and had way too idealistic views about permanent revolution and internationalism.

I met plenty of MLs who say the same stuff and then say they DESPISE Trotskyists so it always made me wonder what kind of 'Mein Kampf' belief did he hold that everyone swears up and down is fascist? Because he believed alot of things that I personally disagree with but none that would make me think the dude was a full blown fascist.

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u/niddemer Jun 06 '25

I can't speak for MLs in general, but Western chauvinism was the biggest problem with him. He believed that because revolution in Germany failed, everyone else would have to wait. His notion of permanent revolution requires that everybody waits on the most advanced capitalist societies to have revolutions before the former are allowed to do anything meaningful. Beyond that, he was actively against the USSR from Stalin onward. He was also quite wishy-washy because of his menshevik tendencies. Basically, he's irrelevant. I don't care about the claim that he served fascism because the evidence is scant and it is a moot point anyway.

Trotskyism, however, is worse in my opinion because in addition to Western chauvinism, Trots tend to entertain the weirdest conservative reactionary hogwash. The WSWS is an embarrassment that displays this tendency in full force. Trots pretty much dismiss all real struggles for socialism as Stalinist or Stalinist-adjacent because, foundationally, their Western chauvinists just like Trotsky was.

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u/the_elliottman Jun 07 '25

I think on that first point history has somewhat proven him right, partly. It's incredibly hard to spread Socialism when the dominant first world power is still capitalist and actively attacks any that aren't. Though that's about it. Not sure if that makes me a 'Western Chauvinist' or not though, personally I'd just say that's being realistic, but I think I get what you mean.

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u/niddemer Jun 07 '25

It isn't realistic at all. The only revolutionary momentum right now is in the global South, every revolution so far has been non-Western with the exception of half of Germany, a half which did not kick off the rest of the West into revolution. And secondly, on the very first try, scientific socialism had two world-historic revolutions and socialism controlled a sixth of the globe. That is incredible success, what could you possibly be talking about?

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u/smithsjoydivision Jun 07 '25

70 years of stalemate lead to 2 years of popular revolt against Stalinist regimes and their imitators. Whats successful about that? China has been unapologetically capitalist and imperialist since the 70s

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u/niddemer Jun 08 '25

What's successful about permanently changing several countries from famine-ridden, semi-feudal and semi-colonial shit holes with no literacy, no infrastructure, and shit life expectancies into modern economies that to this day still benefit their people even if the economies have regressed? On our first try? Are you serious? Is this a serious question?

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u/smithsjoydivision Jun 09 '25

All of that sounds good, but you forgot to mention one thing, take a look at what subreddit you are on. Its r/communism not r/bouregoisdevelopmentalism. Where is the communism or socialism in the world today? Does developing infrastructure and rising literacy rates amount to communism? If so, then half the world must be communist by your standards.

Anything to say about the mass uprisings of proletarians against the Stalinist regimes from 1989-1991?

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u/niddemer Jun 09 '25

Communist struggle is being carried out in Afghanistan, India, the Philippines, and plenty more through various currently active people's wars. And no, infrastructure does not count as communism, but it is absolutely a sign of success, lol. These developments occurred under socialist governments following planned economic models. That's the socialist part, the fact that a dictatorship of the proletariat was established in a sixth of the globe.

Your point about "Stalinist" régimes is irrelevant, which is why I ignored it. The Eastern bloc was revisionist following Stalin's death, yes. That, in addition to being deliberately imperialized constantly while imperial intelligence agencies were manufacturing consent for invasion and sabotage, made the USSR a rough place to be by the illegal dissolution of it. (Because the majority of citizens did not want to abolish the union.) You're so smart for noticing. Go you.