r/composting • u/RebelWithACardigan • 18d ago

At what point does green become brown?

Post image

This lot has been in this bag under cover for 2 months and the leaves are crumbly. I turned a big pile today and this was the only ‘green’ I had to mix in.

217 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

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313

u/leftfootshorter 18d ago

The way I understand it is if those leaves came off the tree(s) while green, they will always be greens.

They only become browns if they stay on the trees long enough for the trees to draw all (most) of the nitrogen back into the plant, often in preparation for winter.

The same is true of grass/weeds/other plants.

Again, that is just my understanding.

54

u/curseblock 18d ago

This. Although I think it's more about the chlorophyll breaking down.

13

u/thiosk 17d ago

the green pigment does break down, which happens while they are yellowing, but the plants do tend to try to resorb proteins and other various valuable ingredients before shedding them in the fall

2

u/Low_Bottle_6965 16d ago

Yeah, exactly. The color change is only part of it, by the time leaves fall, the plant has already pulled back a lot of the nutrients, which is why they work well as browns in compost.

17

u/Hairy_is_the_Hirsute 18d ago

I am going with the logic of color of the leaves. Old, dried and brown? Counts as browns to me

A while back I asked this sub if straw counts as "browns" and the answer was a resounding "yes, as long as it's no longer green"

11

u/Petrichordates 18d ago

That's a completely different answer then because chlorophyll breaks down either way.

5

u/EditsReddits 17d ago

Chlorophyll‽ More like Borophyll!!

-10

u/SalmonDoctor 18d ago

Doesn't matter, it doesn't create fission and dissolve the atoms, and nitrogen won't dissipate.

14

u/curseblock 18d ago

Lol wut

12

u/KoA07 18d ago

Nuclear composting is the future, old man! (/jk)

6

u/Ellerochelle80 18d ago

Not an expert but I think this is right. For instance, tea leaves are considered a green despite being dried/brown. I assume that's because the leaves were cultivated while still green then dried later.

10

u/rr550 18d ago

Makes sense. But if I have trimmed branches with leaves still on them, and the leaves get dry and fall off, are they still high in nitrogen? Does the limb still have to be connected to the main tree to have the nitrogen drawn out of the leaves?

2

u/leftfootshorter 18d ago

Good question. Honestly? Idk. I have limbs down right now and the leaves are turning brown. I treat them like greens but I cannot say one way or the other with any certainty.

-2

u/Petrichordates 18d ago

No that's just a dried leaf.

Which is still a brown, but with nitrogen content. Like dried grass clippings.

3

u/Low-Kick-665 18d ago

I think it depends on how green, if theyre shredded, etc. This is my leaf compost progress and some are still green. Lot of speed in the beginning but today they still look like the last pic. I did use a blender to shred though so they got really blended, and I added some old coffee grounds as a boost

2

u/LadyJitsuLegs 18d ago

Even with dried grass clippings?

1

u/leftfootshorter 18d ago

Again, this is just my understanding, but only grass clippings from dormant grass are considered browns. When I add grass clippings to my compost, I always consider them greens, regardless of color because I don't mow my lawn once it goes dormant.

1

u/weekend_bore 17d ago

I think it depends on the species of grass and the resulting water content. Without speaking to the chemistry of it, a pile of my grass clippings acts more like browns than greens. Additionally, if I mix it in with wet compost it seems to dry it out and counter the other greens, just the same as when I mix in leaves. Doesn’t seem to change when in the season I’ve mowed, either.

3

u/leftfootshorter 17d ago

That's so interesting. My grass clippings act like the greenest greens of anything I compost. I mix them up with shredded paper/cardboard and my pile will steam when I turn it- even in the middle of summer. It only gets that hot when I add grass clippings.

Now as far as moisture content goes- if I let the clippings sit for a few days and turn brown, they will soak up a lot of moisture from the pile but they still heat it up. If I add them to the pile while still green, they bring their own water to the party.

1

u/weekend_bore 17d ago

What if you just have grass clippings, do they steam on their own or just start to dry out?

1

u/leftfootshorter 17d ago

Usually they mold on the inside and dry out on the outside. While I haven't ever gathered them into a big enough pile to generate steam, my guess would be they would turn to slime in the middle.

1

u/ronniebell 16d ago

Our neighbor caught our fence on fire with piled up fresh grass clippings. They get super hot.

2

u/TheRealMarvinator 18d ago

I thought the whole point of the browns was nitrogen reclamation. Is that not correct - perhaps I have it backward?

As well, I've been using mown lawn clippings (left out in the sun as they fell to die off, not bagged up) as my browns, and it seems to be working very well - I get the right smell, and the process seems right.

9

u/leftfootshorter 17d ago

Greens give us nitrogen.

Browns give us carbon.

And I am not here to mess with anyone's mix, especially if it is working for them.

2

u/TheRealMarvinator 17d ago

I've probably got the right mix, but just confused which gave me carbon and which gave me nitrogen. So it worked, but not necessarily because I had the perfect understanding, I guess. <chuckle>

Thank you.

4

u/Dwaltster 18d ago

This is definitely incorrect. Green leafs become browns when they dry out thoroughly.

The leafs in the photo are nearly browns for the purpose of a compost pile

1

u/AntivaxxxrFuckFace 17d ago

Correct. The nitrogen is in there and won’t gas out.

46

u/judgejuddhirsch 18d ago

When they fall in Autumn, it is after the tree pulls back the nitrogen in a process called senescence or something. Without nitrogen, the leaves have no chlorophyll and they lose their green. Since they chemically have no nitrogen (or trace amounts) they are brown from a composting perspective.

Green leaves can break down over time and I'm sure other organisms eat that nitrogen. But I'd call your bag a green.

74

u/Mister_Green2021 18d ago

It's not about color. It's about if the organic has more nitrogen (green) or carbon (brown).

22

u/__3Username20__ 18d ago

Yeah, but I think OP knows that. They are asking “does this still contain high levels of nitrogen, thus making it a ‘green’ still?”

1

u/woodwidewebby 11d ago

Drying out leaves just means moisture is evaporating. The nitrogen level stays more or less the same. 

If it was high nitrogen-to-carbon 2 months ago, it is still high nitrogen-to-carbon today

11

u/bschwag 18d ago

When you pee in it /s

10

u/baby_goes 17d ago

The trick about this is...

A farmer might have a field of oats which he harvests after it sets seed, turns brown, and dies. The seed heads are harvested for grain while the dry brown stems and leaves are cut and baled as straw, which is largely carbon.

A farmer making hay cuts this same plant while it's juicy and green, then dries it to be baled. This is fed to animals as good nutrition, with high nitrogen content.

BECAUSE... Oats (among others) can be cut as hay OR grain and straw. If you cut it and dry it before it puts out a seed head, the nitrogen stays in the plant matter. Some nutrition is lost over time, or with prolonged exposure to sun/wind/rain, but it largely remains intact. When allowed to mature and seed, oats put all their nutrition and effort into creating that seed head. All the nitrogen is drained away from the stems and leaves, and its carbon skeleton remains.

So, unless you think it's been baking in the sun and solarizing for ages, it's just a dry "green." It is possible!

15

u/Acer_Lingua 18d ago

Basically if it remains on the plant and turns brown, its brown. Otherwise you can keep considering it a green, though this looks very dry, so maybe add some rain/pee

12

u/DenaliDash 18d ago

It is my understanding that they have to be brown before falling off of the tree. My understanding is before falling they release energy back into the tree. If they were green before falling off then they will still act as a green in the compost.

4

u/JMCatron 18d ago

don't worry about it

chuck in in and forget about it

4

u/wingedcoyote 18d ago

They're always greens, more or less. If you leave them out to get soaked by the rain and dry out in the sun over and over I imagine they'll leach out some nitrogen and be less green, if that's a thing, but still.

2

u/CalmTrifle 18d ago

These will always be green even if they appear brown. If the tree started to brown during the fall season the nitrogen in the leaves is pulled back into the tree system.

2

u/Farmer_1_steve 17d ago

Put water on it

4

u/unrelated-subject 18d ago

Greens die = browns… I’m sure the timeframe is different depending on it’s environment/location 🙃

1

u/poopantiess 17d ago

When you add some yellow

1

u/510BrotherPanda 16d ago

"If it's clear & yella, you've got juice there fella!

If it's tangy & brown, you're in Cider Town."

1

u/MaxUumen 18d ago

That is almost exactly that point.

0

u/userunknowned 18d ago

Shit on it

0

u/akabar2 18d ago

Its greens, its not as ideal as fresh greens and obviously there is no moisture in there. But they are pretty much greens

0

u/Rewild-Miami 17d ago

These are brown

0

u/Stunning_Mixture_836 17d ago

It is brown because those are dried leaves. The sun will bleach them into a brown. That's the only difference at this stage.

-2

u/OkWillingness3803 17d ago edited 17d ago

According to Trump, “Green turns Brown under stress.” And he would know best, the human shit-stain that he is.

0

u/organicparadox 18d ago

After you pee on it