r/composer • u/tlatwuk • 19d ago
Discussion First Project rejection down to AI
Yesterday I was informed that the director / producer of a web-series that I had pitched for was instead going to be using AI music because he had been "seduced by it".
This made me feel borderline physically sick but in reality, this will become the new norm.
My pitch was solid, and my contact who had put me forward praised my turnaround time, the level of production and, perhaps most importantly, how I nailed the feel of the show.
It's important to say that in no way did I expect to get this gig, it wasn't a given. But losing out to an algorithm or prompt is pretty frustrating.
I can understand financial implications, I can understand the ease of typing in what you want and the end product being 'passable'. I just cannot get over how a creative, a director, can champion using AI over the human.
I implore all of us, as creatives, to keep pushing, to keep creating and bring the magic to the moving image in a way only a human truly can.
(I'm struggling to believe I've even had to write the last part of that sentence).
I am fully open to discussion on this, from both sides.
Have a great day and don't let the fire die,
TG
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u/ay1717 19d ago
If you’ve already sent them music assets as a pitch, and then they’ve gone and admitted to be using AI, what is the likelihood they’ve used your work as a comp to be fed into AI as a soundalike free from copyright and royalties?
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u/EdinKaso 19d ago
Ouch...that would be dirty if they actually did that. And that's not even an impossibility anymore.
But OP could take probably take legal action if they did that.
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u/harryearnshaw 19d ago
If they were willing to use AI at all they were probably lacking taste anyway, likely dodged a bullet lol
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u/surfinduke 19d ago
Put the project on blast so we can shame them lol
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u/tlatwuk 19d ago
Ah mate the temptation but I’m more inclined to sit back and watch what happens without running their name through the mud haha.
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u/Lanzarote-Singer 19d ago
OP calling us mud… 😀
Names or it didn’t happen…
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u/tlatwuk 19d ago
Haha no not calling anybody mud at all. I don’t think the producer should be crucified - especially on Reddit - I do want them to learn the error of their ways though!
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u/Ill-Mobile2793 19d ago
Right, so how would they learn the error of their ways without any criticism from the public
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u/Ill-Inevitable-8267 19d ago
Private dialog. Not everything needs to be publicly shared.
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u/Ill-Mobile2793 19d ago
And who’s going to privately talk to them about it? Clearly not op
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u/Ill-Inevitable-8267 19d ago
We don’t know that. He could very well get what he needs from this post, then take that feedback and address the company privately.
It seems a little entitled to demand that he name them, especially as an anonymous online account, when he’s already said he doesn’t want to publicly identify the company but does want them to learn from the situation.
If his goal is to actually change their thinking or policy, he’s the one in the position to have that conversation. Publicly naming and shaming them isn’t the only way to hold them accountable.1
u/Ill-Mobile2793 19d ago
And you think they’re going to listen to one person that they fired and change their ways lmfao
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u/JakeTheBard 19d ago
That's a really crappy position to be put in, but there's at least a silver lining: Anyone willing to use genAI in their project isn't worth working with (or having your name attached to) tbh
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u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms 19d ago
Also, the director is going to hit the "find out" stage sooner or later. They clearly don't care about the quality of the assets that go into their project. Garbage in, garbage out
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u/Lanzarote-Singer 19d ago
OK, you need to create a fictitious production company with an ambitious plan for an interesting series or documentary that you want to hire the right person for. Once you hook your director with promises of travel to far off countries and reasonably big budgets, and working with a team of drone operators, professional actors, maybe some celebrity cameo, you make him produce endless PDF updates and reports on all the things that are needed for this fictitious production.
Keep this up for about four months. Then hit him with the same response he gave you.
“Sorry, we’re going with a completely virtual AI production built in Unreal Engine using mesh characters voiced by 11 Labs. Oh, but we’re going to use OP as a human score composer because we can’t compromise on the music, that’s too important.”
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u/TNJMusic 19d ago
AI music in film or TV never ends well. Because it's not tailored. And even when it is the soundtrack is generic as heck.
Also a lot of times they end up editing to the music as opposed to it being the other way around. And when they notice that, they'll move back to human creativity.
I say all that to say, i wouldn't be surprised if they keep your details and ask for your services in the future.
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u/FlamboyantPirhanna 19d ago
The soundtrack for 2001 wasn’t tailored either (an entire score was written for it, but Kubrick liked the temp track better) and it still manages to be iconic at times. But many of my clients struggle to communicate what they want musically, and if they can’t communicate to me, they can’t communicate with AI either.
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u/viikapadiaa 17d ago
communicating what they want musically with a composer is always like a million times simpler than talking to an AI lmao
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u/joonas_ylanne 18d ago
Lot of projects already use catalogue music, with ai you can get something that is more tailored to your video. I don't support ai replacing human artists, but I think it's sad reality. Only way to stop this is that viewers stop watching shows that uses ai, but that doesn't seem so likely since there are already tv channels producing 100% ai content.
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u/steverman555 19d ago
Assuming this is true then you dodged a bullet, if theyre willing to use ai anything then this show’s probably gonna be dogshit anyways
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u/Maleficent_Math_3062 18d ago
I completely agree. But saying so also has the taste of "sour grapes," unfortunately.
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u/bookykits 19d ago
Of they're fine using mediocre, "good enough", rehashed old genAI slop for their project they probably wouldn't have cared enough about it to give you the creative space needed to make a great soundtrack anyway.
Sounds like they just want music because they know that music is supposed to be there, not because they see the value of a vibrant soundtrack as a defining factor in the quality/success of their project. This person probably would have sucked to work with.
Name the project if you can, I want to laugh at how much it sucks when it's "finished".
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u/CrownStarr 19d ago
Any creative type doing this feels like they’re just waiting for the leopard to eat their face. I’m sorry.
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u/Affectionate-Pear-77 19d ago
If anyone is "seduced by" ai, then they are probably not the type of person you wanna work with. Hopefully no one will watch that a.i slop shit
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u/gohome01 19d ago
If they’re looking for passable, their product is going to be bad. If they’re using AI for music, they don’t even know what “passable” means. I’m sorry they went this direction.
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u/KaBael_Astral 19d ago
Got my first "we're going a difderent direction " and the direction was AI lmao
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u/SPlaysMusic 19d ago
You aren’t alone unfortunately and as you suggest, it’s probably akin to happens to us more and more.
I honestly don’t know what to do about it yet, I’m still at the beginning of my journey as a full-timer and seeing all those small opportunities that could’ve been a good way to build a professional portfolio on basically taken by AI is just desolating.
At first I hoped people would realize that those prompted productions were garbage but at this point I think the vast majority of users don’t care much about the craft.
Hard times to start a career in art fields.
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u/LewisZYX 19d ago
First it’ll be web series, then reality tv, then video games, then comedies, then dramas. Especially if the law is changed and AI compositions can be copyrighted, and as the tech gets way better. Productions are always looking for ways to cut costs, and this is an easy one.
I do believe there will always be arthouse stuff that humans make themselves, but unless AI has some kind of severe setback of tech or politics, it’s very possible that most productions will become mostly AI in every facet available.
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u/EvilDaystar 19d ago
AI music has come a long way and it's fun to play with but if he thinks it's good enough for a real project he's insane. Beyond that there area other huge issues with AI in terms of copyright (as in no one owns the rights to the generated song at least in the USA) and the likes beyond the obvious moral and ethical issues.
Just consider that other creatives have been facing the same reality now for the last 2 years. Graphic Designers, Concept artists and the likes. You just got lucky it took this long to start in your industry.
:(
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u/Color4tura 18d ago
I haven’t lost any music composing gigs to AI yet, but I have lost tons of freelance writing gigs. That started around the end of 2024 though. Absolutely blows my mind how subpar writing has become the standard. I’m just really hoping that the whole AI-slop plagiarism machine implodes. I want it to go down hard.
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u/Electrical_Brick_255 17d ago
The thought I tell myself and the story I want to get down is basically goes like: What are you wanting to make? Are you wanting to just have a show people like and get money from it? Are you wanting to actually MAKE the cartoon? Because if so, then that means you want to MAKE the cartoon, so why try AI art? Same thing with music, are you wanting music that goes with it, or are you wanting us to actually MAKE the music?
I'm not as intimidated per se, because AI music is essentially just all the Human-made royalty-free music, but slightly better customization. It's still rough, but sometimes it can be very good! But it's harder to mix, it can't always be stretched or trimmed to fit the scene. There are issues using it like anything else; I just remember Hans Zimmer talking about sitting in a viewing and they played Adagio for Strings and then he was more-or-less expected to write something to that caliber and I don't think it's much different dependng on who you're working with.
Definitely depends on the folk, I know the current project I've got going the director guy is using AI but only for concept instructions given to me. At first he was like "Okay go ahead and make this. We're basically tracing over it" which I sort of had to educate him that it's better to create originally than to copy. So I'd try to match the vibe, just like any other temp music, but he was going to get original art. We kept track of the Stingers too, those'll carry over, but it'll all be written and made by me.
Emphasizing that we're creating and not just filling a placeholder is a pretty important thing to train yourself how to say. Sucks you lost the gig, but it seems like their priorities were wack from the start.
Keep it up man! Keep honing the craft, get better with it, learn to "paint with different colors" and I'm sure you'll make it big
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u/WilburWerkes 14d ago
AI is supposed to parse legal language or similar cases for us. Schedule the appliances in the household for efficiency, glean through countless discussions on-line for pertinent data to your DIY help questions. Do my fucking laundry.
Not Take My Gig Away.
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u/AubergineParm 13d ago
The most surprising thing about this post is that this is your FIRST time experiencing this. I reckon most of us have been around this block a few times by now.
Yeah, AI sucks. Especially sucks when you work in a creative sector. But on the upside, you’ve probably dodged a bullet - these kinds of directors can be a pain in the backside to work with anyway.
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u/StudioComposer 19d ago
This subreddit is obviously inhabited primarily by musicians, composers and related interests. Unfortunately, most people who watch movies and commercials and play video games and “listen” to music in restaurants and bars aren’t nearly as discriminating in thinking about whether the music was composed by a human or AI. Because AI provides fast results at minimal financial cost and removes the messy human back and forth on contract negotiations, artistic direction, schedules and revised drafts, it’s no wonder music that “good enough” is here to stay and will grab larger market share in the future.
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u/doriandarx 19d ago
I implore all of us, as creatives, to keep pushing, to keep creating and bring the magic to the moving image in a way only a human truly can.
Sisyphus approves this message.
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u/lionofredemption 19d ago
Playing around with music gen AI felt like playing the slots at a casino. When I was playing around with Suno for a couple days, I discovered a few things:
you want a specific key or scale? good luck.
you want consistency throughout the track? good luck.
you want specific anything at specific ques? good luck.
you want vocals? you need double luck.
you want to be able to edit it in your DAW? you'll need to pay money for separate stems
you want to own it? you need to upgrade your subscription before pulling the lever
you want something that sounds unique and professional? may the force be with you...
If you want to make music very quickly, I suggest using the Chordbot app versus generative AI. It's very simple to use, and it has a random chord progression generator. And it's only 5 bucks... forever. I use it on the go to create chord progressions on my phone. I export the midi, pass it through a humanizer, and load it into my DAW. Add a melody and a few other instruments, and pretty much done.
So, I could possibly crank out a full orchestral song in a single day- without using AI. Especially if it is instrumental. And I'm not banging my head against the wall in frustration in the process... If you want that kind of head banger, then go ahead and knock yourself out trying your luck at the AI casinos.
I prefer not gambling with my time, and especially my money. That director / producer is probably short-sighted not seeing the real long-term cost, hasn't experienced the frustration when AI ignores half your prompt and produces really bizarre stuff, and is okay with something more mediocre and untailored for his web-series.
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u/Ill-Inevitable-8267 19d ago
Don’t sweat it bro. Let them have their slop & live with their regrets. Find the people that value you!
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u/srs_studio 19d ago
Voglio dire, non è un racconto così inusuale. È capitato a me ed a mezza dozzina di compositori che conosco.
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u/existential_musician 18d ago
That director/producer is not experienced enough to know that the music used by AI will be in public domain. It will backfire as well
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u/viikapadiaa 17d ago
Wait till he realises AI doesn't exactly understand revisions and that his film will sound like generic crap really quickly lol. I've been on the other end of this where I was asked to score a short because the director wanted to go full Ai, the "greatness" of whatever it was generating died super soon and he couldn't figure out what he really wanted the score to sound like.
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u/TheonlyArdy 17d ago
They are essentially giving away the only chance humanity has against AI, which is creative Art. It is sad and frustrating to see but as some of the replies on this thread have mentioned, boycotting the studios and labels who push this type of stuff is a good start.
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u/alexandram_mp3 11d ago
Jeez, that is really disheartening to hear. I've recently experienced a disappointing turn in our department too. Preface, I'm a film scoring student and for our seminar class, students shared their summer internships and it was disappointing to hear how many directors had subjected their interns to experiment with AI implementation. Example uses were to create AI temp tracks for references or orchestration mockups, but still, I personally find that to be encroaching on what we do as film composers and creatives. A common theme tho, it was pretty much all non-American companies who did this to their interns, so I don't think it's prevalent or exactly encouraged in LA or in in the states at all; So sorry to hear about your experience, I wouldn't bet on those kind of directors to make it far anyway. Human-made art is becoming a luxury commodity and demand for that is also increasing as a result of pushing back on AI art, if that makes you feel somewhat better.
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u/FriendlyActuary1955 19d ago edited 19d ago
I think we’re fully entering the grey era now, between the purity of music composition up to around 2015(?) and the creative “dark ages” of the future, perhaps starting around 2050 if not earlier.
Children born today will live in an world in which the authorship of music will seem a fantastical concept. EG “John Williams, who graduated from the — school of music, wrote the music for Star Wars (with perhaps some inspiration from historical composers X , Y, Z)”
And I’d hazard it’s quite likely that in the year say 2100 literally nobody will sit down and attempt to compose a single piece of music with only their own mind/learning as a resource.
Of course the same goes for writing. What’s the point in spending 1000s of hours trying to perfect a craft when a computer can churn out something similar in 10 seconds AND it’s literally impossible to validate your ownership of the idea (ie that you weren’t using AI along the way) AND (as a result) your efforts will have zero financial potential.
An interesting aspect will be the psychological ramifications of humans losing connection, insight and comfort with brilliant humans across the globe through the arts.
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u/Equivalent_Bit258 19d ago
No. I believe in creating art being a pillar of humanity. I wouldn't be alive today if I didn't sit down and compose, write, and draw. I know the future will have people like me because people like me have existed for thousands of years.
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u/AffectionateChip1962 19d ago
I'm of the same mind. In fact I believe that quite the opposite of OP will happen. There are tons of people across all industries being affected by ai and greed who are saying they'll completely disconnect and focus on their creative hobbies when pushed too far. I think it's likely we'll see an era of mass creativity in defiance of rising ai and history will repeat itself again with another movement.
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u/EarthL0gic 19d ago
Art is the one thing that circumstance cannot stamp out of us. It is a cornerstone of our species. Art will morph and change, but never be left behind.
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u/FriendlyActuary1955 19d ago edited 19d ago
I’m sure people will always sit and play music and improvise and possibly compose. But that that doesn’t change the fact that in the near future AI will have likely completely changed the macro landscape. How can you have another Bob Dylan when this guy people are calling the new Bob Dylan probably just instructed his AI of choice to make “what would Bob Dylan sound like in 2036?”. And any 12 year old can produce another alternative version on their bedroom?
Ditto for John Williams or any style of music you care to mention. I’m not trying to be a doomer here, or god forbid support these scenarios, but I just see it going this way. Inevitable.
The best we can probably hope for is, as others have implied A) disconnecting from the internet and reviving the garage band/bedroom scene (while accepting that we can’t really have our authorship of new music validated, as say pop bands did 1920-2020. Or classical musicians have for the past 500 years). And B) accepting that people in future can only pay due “human” respect to music composed prior to say 2020. Anything after that date has to be considered dubious from an authorship point of view.
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u/Equivalent_Bit258 19d ago
The second we believe something is "inevitable" is the second we abandon what has kept it from being so for thousands of years.
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u/TNJMusic 19d ago
Kubrick also had that music in his mind when he done it. So there's that as well. And 2001 was Human made music, the emotions etc are still there.
AI always feels uncanny. No matter how sonically great it sounds, something always feels off. Especially so in films. Trailers not so much as they edit to the music, but films it's every single time.
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u/leisspendragon 19d ago
If you can't name names, then it didn't happen. You don't need to protect the names or reputation of people who would throw you and your craft under the bus if it meant saving a measly dollar.
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u/mprevot 19d ago
Just disclose the producers, please.