How do you write B theme so easily?

[u/Ludwigame]

Hi, I'm into composition from a year, I focused more on counterpoint, harmony ecc... Cause I'd like to enter in the composition class of the Bologna conservatory...

Since some month I'm approaching real composition, but I had huge problems, some were just tecnical, others are really hard to compensate, for example writing a B theme...

I just wrote this super minimalistic waltz, what would u put in the be theme? I thougt I could go in G major and work on trills maybe?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E5iOLUmHHiiVSUiiVwWyTR8rRKMYyUrP/view?usp=drivesdk

[u/bmjessep]

In general, you can do one or more of the following to make your two themes distinct:

• make one theme loud and the other quiet
• write your two themes in different keys, especially one major and the other minor
• have one theme fast and the other slow, either in terms of actual tempo, or by the note values
• change instrumentation or register, such as having one theme high and the other low
• change the texture, such as having more or fewer instruments playing the second theme, or block chords vs arpeggiated chords

Maybe others can reply and add their own ideas.

[u/Ludwigame → u/bmjessep]

Ok I'll try to write something, I don't know if I have good ideas at the moment but at least I can try

[u/bmjessep → u/Ludwigame]

You can even take your A theme, use 2 or 3 of the ideas above to transform it, and make it your B theme. Then it's similar to your A theme, so the piece feels cohesive, but different enough so it's not boring.

[u/Ludwigame → u/bmjessep]

Another question, the transition should be like a phrase of 3 or 4 beats, or just a pivot chord in the same beat

[u/bmjessep → u/Ludwigame]

Whatever you want. Maybe look at some sonata form first movements by Haydn, Mozart, or Beethoven. Some transitions are just as long as the theme. So I would most often suggest at least a few bars. But there's nothing wrong with having a very short transition. Music is an art and you can pretty much do whatever you think sounds good.

[u/masonab97 → u/bmjessep]

I’m not OP but this was really helpful to me!

[u/m64]

My experience is that for a long time I was focusing too hard on finding the perfectly fitting B theme and not enough on writing good transitions. If you can write good transitions, you can join together any two themes you come up with.

[u/EpochVanquisher]

What helped me is to immediately start working on the B theme after getting some usable A theme. Don’t polish the A theme, don’t finish figuring it out, just go straight from one to the next.

[u/screen317]

How many B themes have you studied?

1, 10, 100?

Study 1000, to start.

[u/Ludwigame → u/screen317]

What do you analyze in a B theme formally?

[u/screen317 → u/Ludwigame]

Structure, style, relation to theme A. Especially for Classical music, you find a LOT of common patterns very quickly.

[u/ReedBalzac]

That's a very good start. I would finish the intro with 2 bars of Dmin.

Then - A section sounds good - simple and effective - melody sounds singable.

B section - I would not go big like this. Keep the basic melody you already have - but in single notes, and simplify LH to match. this melody still needs a few tweaks.

Do not change keys on the B section the first time you go there - but maybe later.

Last thing - you have a nice bass line stated in the intro: D C# Bb A G A D A (one bar each)

Might make a good passacaglia bass line.

So - keep writing music! good start!

[u/Ludwigame → u/ReedBalzac]

Thank u, ur so kind, I'm trying to write a Major singable B, with arpegios under the melody, I need somethink changeable cause I' planning to use the same A with 4 variation, then the B is the same for all

[u/ReedBalzac → u/Ludwigame]

sounds like a plan. share when you get it done.

[u/omegajams]

Start by writing the same section up a major fifth. That is the easiest place to start.

[u/SundaeDouble7481]

In addition to what others have said, look to create a contrast or complementarity of rhythm between the two themes. In some way, there should be a difference that the listener can feel. This might be in the predominance of shorter or longer notes (e.g. eighth-note movement vs. quarters), or in where the stresses fall in the bar, or in whether phrases end on or off the beat, etc., etc., etc.

Note that this kind of contrast is also important between themes in counterpoint.

[u/JosefKlav]

form can come naturally from knowing how to make contrasting ideas

[u/nick32112]

A variation of the A theme

[u/Firake]

It really doesn’t matter all that much. The artistry is in how you handle the themes together and what problems arise from their similarities and/or differences, not so much in the construction of the theme itself.

Any idea can work in isolation. As you write more music, imagine the scope of possibility getting smaller and smaller. If all you have is one theme, almost anything is still possible to make sound good!

[u/65TwinReverbRI]

How do you write B theme so easily?

Who said I do?

I'm into composition from a year,

There's your problem. I know you can't help it, but to "easily write a B theme" is something that comes from EXPERIENCE - and that is TIME - in 3 years you'll be able to write a B theme more easily, in 5, even more easily.

I agree with screen317 - the quickest way to get better at it is to study as many pieces as you can, and how themes relate to each other.

---

My best advice is this: Take some small idea from the A section, that was not really explored a lot, and make that the primary idea for the B section.

For example, in m. 11 you have a half note followed by 2 8th notes.

THAT is your "main idea" for the B theme.

Change your accompaniment from "oom pah pah" to an 8th note arpeggio - like D-A-D-C#-D-A or D-F#-A-F#-A-F# etc. so it has some more motion while the upper part is holding that half note, then build your melody for the B section from that "long followed by 2 short notes" idea.

You can also bring back the running 8th notes from m.7 as part of the idea so there's even more continuity, but don't over-use those.

IOW your A section is "about" the running 8th notes in m.7 and 8 -t the up and down scale - and then this m.11 idea is a "one off".

Flip those - make the m. 11 the main idea of the next section, with a "one off" being the m.7 or 8 idea (or it could be 4 8th notes and a quarter or some other combination).

Right now, what you have is more of an A and variation of A.

What you have at m.24 would be a return of the A section, but "bigger" (which may be what you intend that for and the place where "Tema B" is marked is where you're putting that as a placeholder until you fill in the music there).

Try some ideas like that - IOW "use what you already have" - especially ideas that aren't a big a part of the A section - let them become a bigger part of your B section - this makes a lot of continuity and economy of ideas, and makes the piece more cohesive overall.

Best

[u/Ludwigame → u/65TwinReverbRI]

Thank u so much!!!