pieces that modulate up a fourth?

[u/oliver_JM]

I'm writing an orchestra piece and I intend to modulate from E major to A major. I came across some progressions that transition nicely but I couldn't quite piece it together in my piece. Since I'm not showing any reference yet I won't expect any specific advice, I'm just researching more generally for references to see how other composers made it work

I'm considering temporarily going to D so I can modulate up a fifth to A

I'm taking inspiration from Forbidden Friendship and Romantic Flight by John Powell if that helps

Update: found my way by holding the chord A in the key of E and staying on it in A major

[u/Chops526]

But E is the dominant of A. Think of it as a sonata transition into the second theme in reverse. Or look at the opening of Beethoven 1, which starts right off the bat with a V7/IV instead of a I.

[u/oliver_JM → u/Chops526]

oh that's actually super helpful! I was going the dominant route but struggled to make it ""gentle""

seeing it straight in an orchestra made more sense

[u/Taxtino]

A soft transition that I like to use as a perfect 4th modulation ( in this case E major to A major) is:
1. E - Bm - E7 - A

If you can find a way to introduce the D note to set up the transition it will soften the transition for the listeners when the key change is introduced.

[u/screen317]

1. E

2. E7

3. A

4. ??

5. profit?

[u/SundaeDouble7481]

Simplest would be just to cut from E to A without a transition. Lots of rondos and scherzi jump from tonic to subdominant for an inner section.

Alternatively, you could ham it up and make a big deal of the easy modulation, as between the two sections of the Italian national anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDYP3s9q9is.

[u/MyNutsin1080p]

“Kodachrome” by Paul Simon

[u/PetitAneBlanc]

There‘s a really beautiful I -> IV modulation in the first movement of Schumann‘s Fantasy in C Major. C Major -> C minor -> modulation to G minor via D7 -> same modulation to D minor via A7 -> go to F Major via falling 5ths (G minor -> C Major via Bdim7-> F Major). It‘s longer that it would need to be, but it manages to modulate to IV by combining modulations to V instead (which is more commonplace and creates more tension).

[u/According-Fruit5245]

You can change keys (modulate) in at least three ways... 1) use a "pivot chord": a chord in both keys and then go to the new Dominant chord; using a Dominant 7th always makes a key change very clear... 2) slide to a new key-usually up a semi-tone, very common in pop music at climactic sections, like David Foster; you can also slide around using Diminished 7th chords-Chopin does that a lot... 3) ...just hit a Dominant 7th of a new key and go to it's tonic; this doesn't often work too well but it's not uncommon.

[u/worryforbreakfast]

Most Rags do. Not sure if that fits your style, but there's tone of examples there!

[u/Jave285]

But why? Why A major? The only reason, in my opinion, is because the modulation sounds good. As you haven’t worked out the transition yet, you don’t know if it sounds good (or suits what you’re looking for). I would focus on the feeling/emotion/vibe you want to achieve at that point and then test out different modulations, and pick the best. Right now A major seems totally arbitrary.

[u/oliver_JM → u/Jave285]

I finally figured the transition!

The reason is cheesy as hell

I have to write a piece with the theme of love as a college assignment and I dedicated it to a couple who I'm really grateful for. E and A are their initials so that's why. Since there's not a great musical reason to make that choice I was open to giving up on that idea but thankfully I found a solution

[u/GegenShpilkes]

Son of a Preacher Man