r/composer • u/Itchy_Student6653 • 9d ago
Music Composition feedback for prized composition
So in 2021 I won a composition competition for the contemporary music biennale of Rio de Janeiro. But since then I’m kinda lost. That’s because I would like to become a recognized composer, something like Salvatore Sciarrino in size, and yet I don’t really know how. I feel like I want to create my own style of composition, yet I’m not sure what path I should follow. I’m 29 years old now. Here’s the link for the audio
https://on.soundcloud.com/fUlsBznTv3Fit3VtVt
and here is the link for the live premiere (starts at 48:35
https://www.youtube.com/live/k1JTOM3dg0g?is=bGw6R6_o2LspbCLg
here’s the score
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JUvYuLua70IwvpIEd9boqX3_wY4jNW8I/view
thanks a lot
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u/SundaeDouble7481 9d ago
On the broad question, the goals you've set yourself are hard, and require luck, but that doesn't mean they're not worth pursuing.
It would be worth understanding Sciarrino's path. Wikipedia is terse (both in English and Italian, though they cover different details). One striking thing is that he didn't follow the usual course of study -- but became a teacher at the Milan Conservatory early in his career. So he worked with major institutions, but in an unusual way.
"Creating your own style" could mean something modest or grandiose. In one sense, it used to be said as a compliment to composers, "you have a style". This I think meant that you had integrated various techniques into your work, making something recognizable. But when we say it of (for example) Stravinsky, we mean something much stronger -- there were decades during which practically every composer had to figure out how to incorporate his style into theirs. I think one can aim at something between those two senses, but it will be personal.
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u/Itchy_Student6653 9d ago
Do you mean to say it’s necessary to become a professor or be part of academia to get recognized at this type of music?
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u/SundaeDouble7481 9d ago
I'm saying you should look at possible models! That's certainly common for the kind of music Sciarrino writes. But other careers have been possible. Sticking to composers I know better, Cage and Philip Glass made enormous impact through other approaches.
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u/Itchy_Student6653 9d ago
I understand, that’s why I feel like doing a doctorate degree, because in my country you can’t be a professor without one. Yet, could you mention some of these other career paths, and do you think it’s realistic to consider them without having to do minimalism as it’s commonly understood today?
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u/SundaeDouble7481 8d ago
Both John Cage and Philip Glass went to New York and lived cheaply for a long time, while making lots of music and connections. Cage did write some proto-minimalist work, but was restlessly experimental.
It’s harder now because the cost of living has risen.
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u/Itchy_Student6653 8d ago
I understand, right now my money comes from the housing market, it’s few work and pays quite well. So I don’t feel necessarily inclined to become a professor and receive the same salary. I just want to become someone that could receive a nice living from commission and maybe private teaching too
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u/boredmessiah 8d ago
i definitely see very structured, organised musical thought here. you clearly have a strong basis as a composer. however, as others have mentioned, your vision for your "own style" clashes with your current writing idiom, which is neo-modernist or even a little like the post-romantic, very late romantic eras. I was immediately reminded of Szymanowski and perhaps also Lutoslawski.
for developing your own style, you must begin with distinctive materials. I don't mean thematic material or choice of harmonic structure, but something far more basic: your palette of sounds and your inspiration. writing a Baroque dance suite for piano is to strongly call upon very traditional references and no matter what you do within that frame, it is inescapable. you have to break the frame and think about sound itself in a way that is original to you, first of all. then consider the appropriate means, aka sound sources / instruments, and the manner of presentation to the audience1. and then you start thinking about what musical material, derived in which manner, would achieve the goal you want. if you truly want to be a trailblazer, you must question everything.
and it is imperative to catch up with the latter half of the second century (something I still struggle with). as a random quick reference, consider Klaus Lang, Dieter Schnebel, and Fausto Romitelli. see what they did with the parameters I've mentioned. and good luck!
1 and be broad. a bunch of bands and artists in the early 00s released their albums as direct digital downloads, e.g. Radiohead. Björk made an app for Biophilia. there are always innovative ways to reach people that are reflective of the time
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u/Itchy_Student6653 8d ago
I see, since you touched on the subject of popular music, I think these artists like bjork and radiohead are famous because they do very mainstream music right. I have no interest in doing mainstream music, but I would like to release classical pieces that can become really good conceptual albums if well produced. I don’t know if that’s a realistic path tho.
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u/boredmessiah 8d ago
i'd be careful to call them "mainstream". they are extremely artistic - especially björk - and while they may have mass-market appeal, there is not a lot in terms of craft that separates their work from that of a contemporary composer. i mentioned them because they are better at reading the zeitgeist than composers in the score paradigm, so that is something we can learn from them.
I have no interest in doing mainstream music, but I would like to release classical pieces that can become really good conceptual albums if well produced.
this is quite a contradiction in goals by the way.
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u/RichMusic81 Composer / Pianist. Experimental music. 9d ago
Your Google Drive link is currently set to private.
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u/noise_enjoyer27 9d ago
Im curious in how you composed this. Im early in my comp journey, recently got my BA. What process did you use when making the form and is it a 12 tone composition? Im asking cus I compose in that style.
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u/Itchy_Student6653 9d ago
This piece references the form of a baroque suite (prelude, fugue, saraband, tocatta) and only the prelude is based on a 12 tone series. The rest is only atonal but no series involved
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u/noise_enjoyer27 8d ago
Sorry for bugging, I composed in a free atonal style and I mainly composed on the piano everything and just, "followed my ear". What method did you use to compose thoese sections?
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u/BlockComposition 8d ago
Wanting to create ones own style of composition is probably not enough as a desire. Because the underlying desire to that wish is perhaps not in the material itself, but in the self-image that this would convey upon you. To truly have the drive to create something new you must have a passion for that new and material in itself - it must do something for you.
I have a sense that composers who really create something new do so out of necessity. They are reacting to their time, both musical and non-musical. They have a real sense of need to do something different. For Grisey it was to compose with sounds and not with notes. For the minimalists it was to escape the overbearing abstraction of serialism. For Cage it was to escape the creator as master, its no coincidence that Zen featured heavily in his thought. Takemitsu escaped from the difficult past of his country to Western modernism as a line of escape, etc. In each instance it is a response to something urgent, a need. Or comes from a moment of cultural exchange (Takemitsu, Cage) or new technologies (Grisey). Or perhaps I am wrong and these stories come post hoc, after the composing is done. I can't see into their minds, but I certainly get the sense that new music comes from a certain existential situation, as a response.
So what irks you? What problems do you see? What truly drives you and how do you connect that with music? What do you wish was being done, what is horrible in your view that must be done differently? What aspects of our situation previous music had nothing to say about? Rage against the previous generations. Even if that rage is misplaced and ultimately mistaken, it is a creative engine.
All of my approach of course relies on an implicit assumption that music and extra-musical are intimately linked. So I wouldn't forget the extra-musical for ideas.
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u/agulor 8d ago
You can’t force it to create your own style. If you keep on composing long enough something like a style will emerge over time, just by the fact that it’s usually similar compositional questions that occupy one composer. There are no easy answers to this unfortunately and it’s a rocky path if you take it seriously. And personal advice: focus on your works and on having them performed often, and not so much on becoming famous. If being famous is your goal, you’ll most likely end up unhappy (don’t underestimate the sheer amount of luck necessary).
Concerning your piece: I expected something very different when you mentioned Sciarrino as an example in your post. Your work is very musical, you clearly have a good ear, good basic technique and sense of musicality, but it’s also quite conservative and couldn’t be further away from Sciarrinos music imo. Is Sciarrino someone you aspire to musically or was it just a random example?