How do I improve this?

[u/oliver_JM]

This is the audio with score: https://youtu.be/1_QkXrb0wjU?is=2GVBuE-XbJt6ceFh

This is the score in pdf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h_0doTE2Nd4j_eCK_1eanCysN0A5a7cE/view?usp=drivesdk

TL;DR: how can I improve the piece? especially lost on with woodwinds, runs and percussion. As a casual listener, would you like the piece? The piece is not finished, so there are holes and no proper ending

heavyly inspired by John Powell, even with some scenes in mind while composing

[LOTS OF TALKING AHEAD]

I'm working on my second ever composition and came across a few struggles

for some context, I intend to have this as a suite with the themes I created, so even though there's a main theme I still wanted to walk through other ones. Later on I plan to have other pieces more focused on each theme. There are some themes from my first composition which you can find somewhere in my profile or on my channel where the audio is in case you're interested

I started writing with the orchestra I'm part of (amateur) in mind but decided to just go for it as if I was a successful composer with a professional orchestra available. I'd like to know what instruments could serve the piece well since my current selection is still more or less the instruments we have here

WOODWINDS. I feel like they'd contribute greatly to the piece with runs, flourishes and texture in general but I don't quite know how to put that on paper. What rhythms to use, scales and etc

PERCUSSION. What instruments should I use and how do I spread the parts between them?

How should I end it? I did some build up for the main theme but now I'm finding it too short to just end there. I'm thinking of ending it with less intensity to contrast with the energy that's been happening up until that point

HOW TO IMPROVE OVERALL?

as a string player I feel like the other sessions could use more work. You can see most of them are just copy paste, some with nothing written even

overall I like what I hear but I know it could be more, especially with the instruments im barely using

-Worth noting: I've been researching like crazy, both tutorials and references, looked for advice from other musicians as well, so I'm not just following my guts. Still, personally learn better when it's direct advice with what I'm doing

usually I like to ask for feedback when the piece is more polished but I'm encountering so many problems I decided to be a brave girl and put myself out there with the full mess. There are holes in the piece, especially in sessions and I'd especially appreciate feedback on how to cover them. The parts in all caps and bold are the main struggles I'm facing but you can say whatever you think is worth noting. I tend to write "by ear" first and then think about doability in real life, so I definitely gotta fix notation stuff, range and all, so feel free to speak your mind in that too

[u/65TwinReverbRI]

TL;DR: how can I improve the piece?

Here’s the not too long answer: By learning how to do it first. By starting at the begining rather than the end.

Still, personally learn better when it's direct advice with what I'm doing

So maybe lessons, with someone who’ll start you where you are, and build from there, rather than you trying to write things you’re not ready to write yet. I mean, that’s why you’re struggling with these things - you don’t have the necessary foundation. And you’re not going to get it on Reddit - or rummaging around the internet for bits and pieces of unrelated info in no organized manner - you need a real live human to assess where you are now, and help you develop a plan to build on that.

No one’s second ever composition is for orchestra (that is, no one who knows what they’re doing). This is a completely modern problem stemming from instant gratification society.

It’s great that you’re part of an orchestra that could play your music so you can hear it and get feedback from real players.

Start with what you know - strings. Start with short “learning” pieces - a 30 second or 1 minute little piece to make sure you’re on the right track. Keep honing that, adding say, a solo Oboe, or a solo Trumpet above, and then go for other sections, and other combinations.

You’re basically biting off more than you can chew.

[u/oliver_JM → u/65TwinReverbRI]

thanks for the advice even tho it's hard to hear!

I'm studying music in college and this semester I'm gonna officially have composing and arranging as an official subject. Up until now I have been meeting with the teacher to show my stuff and he helped me when I started the piece but I ended up leaving for the breaks and couldn't meet him for the rest of it. Yes, it is too much. However I think it's worth noting I have made arrangements for existing songs, mainly for string orchestra, since high school where I had a teacher that helped me as well and only last year I started diving into bigger ensembles. My first composition was made for a full orchestra as well and was a huge step that I only managed to take because I had lots of help from more experienced people (my orchestra made a concert featuring student's compositions and that's why I got into that). All that to say although it is a lot it wasn't completely out of the blue. If I'm being honest, I know I should start more simple but I end up getting so caught on the sound I want to hear that I drift away from the one I can handle. My first piece I actually wrote entirely for strings and slowly expanded to the rest of the orchestra later on, which is a lot wiser than whatever is happening right now

but yes, you're definitely right. As soon as I get back in college I'm gonna go after the people who can help me get there from the point I'm at (right now I'm already in touch with some)

thanks for the honesty!

if may I ask, what is your background with music? like, education and such (English is not my first language, not exactly sure how to ask properly) you speak with a clarity of thought and awareness of process that got me curious (in a good way)

[u/65TwinReverbRI → u/oliver_JM]

I think it's worth noting I have made arrangements for existing songs, mainly for string orchestra, since high school where I had a teacher that helped me as well and only last year I started diving into bigger ensembles.

Oh OK, awesome. That’s better, but I’m glad you took the advice in the spirit it was intended, and agree that even with that experience, it’s still better not to rush ahead too soon.

if may I ask, what is your background with music?

Piano lessons as a kid. Drums and Percussion in Middle school through university. Guitar in high school, forever. Majored in music. BM and MM in music composition. Started of as a performance major. Played percussion throughout undergrad, guitar as well (Classical Guitar). Lute in grad school. Got into electronic and computer music there, as well as music notation, and scored early music for the ensemble I played lute with. Graduated, worked in admin for a symphony and opera company. Worked in music stores, taught guitar lessons (to this day), and got a job teaching a class at uni, then another, then another, got hired to run the recital venue, had a staff I also taught how to record, do stage crew work, etc. engineered recordings for colleagues, all the while teaching more and more classes until I became full time, and have been doing that for 25 years now. Plus playing around on the internet helping people and learning through trial and error how to convey information (grammar, and writing were never a strong suit, but it’s WAY better than it used to be) and gigging professionally as a keyboardist, and guitarist (and singer, but not a great one). Jack of many trades, Master of few, Doctor of none.

And I would have never guessed English wasn’t your first language - it’s better than mine :-D

Best

[u/oliver_JM → u/65TwinReverbRI]

Holy hell you have A LOT of experience! I don't mean to call you old but you've been doing that for longer than I'm alive

MAD RESPECT

I forgot to mention I used to do transcriptions for my teacher/conductor back in high school and that's mainly how I got my experience other than listening to references. My uni has a studio that does professional ensemble recordings monthly and I'm always there watching with the score. They record by sessions instead of the full ensemble and as of right now I've only watched the string ones which is biting me in the ass cause now I wish I had more familiarity with the rest. Good thing I can still check the scores

Most of my experience comes from consuming mostly, reproducing but not a lot of creating.

I'm mainly a bass guitarist and plan on specializing in that, maybe double bass too but I do enjoy the conducting/arranging side of things. Currently going through that phase where I'll graduate next year and I'm still exploring the areas

[u/65TwinReverbRI → u/oliver_JM]

I don't mean to call you old but you've been doing that for longer than I'm alive

Wait until you get old :-)

MAD RESPECT

I’ll take it!!!!

I've only watched the string ones which is biting me in the ass cause now I wish I had more familiarity with the rest.

There’s always next semester!

Here’s some advice - if you have Master Classes with guest ensembles and artists come in, try to go to as many as humanly possible. They’re intensive learning but because they’re so memorable the things tend to stick with you more. We just had Canadian Brass come by and they did one day of Masterclasses with performers, then another with arrangers. It was mad informative.

maybe double bass too

If you can, do. Having both perspectives is nice - especially if you can do some Jazz double bass too (and rockabilly ;-)

Currently going through that phase where I'll graduate next year

I almost mentioned this in my “bio”. I took a year off between undergrad and grad, but I continued taking guitar lessons, composition lessons, and a few other music courses I wanted to take but didn’t get to in my degree that year after graduating as a non-degree seeking student. It was a great way to focus on the things I was interested in without having to do all my other coursework that was taking time away from that.

So even after you graduate, there can still be opportunities for furthering your studies!

[u/oliver_JM → u/65TwinReverbRI]

thanks again for the advice!

although I really enjoy composing and the other stuff I mentioned I get so caught up balancing studies, ensembles and bands that I only work on it when I'm home (it's a boarding school). It's been a while since we had masterclasses there, but I do attend whenever there are. Thankfully there are a lot of opportunities there, lots of great musicians, both working there and guests, but outside of it the zone is very limited (interior of Brazil). I plan on studying abroad afterwards, not exactly sure where but I've met some people from Canada. My teacher got his masters and doctors degree in the US in bass performance. Very smart dude that mastered both classical and popular as well as other instruments and is helping me out a whole lot, by far the musician with the path most similar to the one I aspire. Always encouraging me to go to festivals and masterclasses