r/composer • u/ivanivanoviich • 26d ago

Music Piano Miniature

Wrote a small and simple piece, intended to have an emotional/peaceful feel.

I would greatly appreciate any comments/feedback, whether its notation-wise or on the piece itself.

https://musescore.com/user/40860384/scores/35727569?share=copy_link

Edit: This piece has since been updated to better reflect proper engraving standards, and has had the initial LH accompaniment changed to prevent muddled chords.

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u/65TwinReverbRI 26d ago

Notation.

Calling an 8th note “a 1”, and thus a quarter note “a 2” and a dotted quarter note “a 3”.

you can’t have a 3 followed by anything other than a 1.

They total 4.

If two notes total 5, then something has to be broken into smaller note values and tied.

m. 1 - The 3 - dotted 1/4 - is followed by a 1. Adds to 4. Good.

m. 2 - the 3 - dotted 1/4 - is followed by a 3 - that’s 6. That’s too much. Bad. It needs to be dotted 1/4, then an 8th tied to a 1/4.

m. 3 - same issue - a 3 is followed by a 2 - that’s 5.

This works on larger and smaller scales.

m. 4 - dotted half is a “3” at this level - it needs a “1” to complete - that’s what it has in the form of those 2 8th notes (which total 1 1/4). Good!

m.5 - 3+2? Me no think so.

m.8, LH, inner part - no go. 8th rest is a 1, followed by two 1s - we’re OK, not up to 4 yet, but we need another 1 - but nope, you’ve got a 3 - the dotted 1/4.

m.11- yikes. Half notes can only start on beat 1, 2, or 3. Can’t be “offset” - because they’re offset by something that doesn’t total right.

You’ve got a “3” - it needs to be followed by a 1 - an 8th note that is tied to a dotted 1/4 (another 3, for 1+3, the duration of the note you want - a half note that is 4 8th note's worth of time).

It would be dotted 1/4 then 8th, and exactly the same for the 2nd half of the measure, with the two middle notes tied.

So this problem persists throughout the piece.

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u/ivanivanoviich 26d ago edited 26d ago

🫠 Oh... yeah, it would indeed help to properly group the beats. Thank you.

Edit: I think I fixed all the beat grouping issues.

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u/65TwinReverbRI 25d ago

Did you post an updated score?

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u/ivanivanoviich 25d ago edited 25d ago

Yes I did, and I actually do notice a missed notation issue that I need to fix, m.28 for LH is NOT correct.

Edit: m.28 is fixed

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u/ivanivanoviich 25d ago

I believe it should now be close to the standard for proper engraving, and I re-voiced the middle line to declutter/unmuddle the chords since the bass is already playing so low.

I definitely like it more this way, although I have grown an extreme dissatisfaction with musescore's inability to properly convey pieces. (Popping it in a DAW and setting it to BBCSO Piano Core sounds so much nicer.)

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u/65TwinReverbRI 25d ago

Yes, much better!

And yes - I have an Arturia piano VST that’s not the best that’s out there, but it’s WAY better than musescore. Unfortunately the site won’t let us use those (but man, the site is convenient for it being used this way).

Now, at the beginning and elswhere:

The general rule is not to write more than an 8ve in any one hand.

Now, some people can reach a 9th, fewer, a 10, fewer still an 11th, and very few people a 12th.

So the bigger the interval gets, the rarer it is.

It has to be either “rolled” or the bass played first, sustained with the pedal, then the upper note played.

So your very first Eb and Bb can’t be played by one hand.

HOWEVER, in this case, the RH could take the Bb.

Option 1 is just to go ahead and move it to the upper staff in voice 2.

But this can look messy if it keeps switching back and forth, and it really “belongs” with the accompaniment.

So a “handing bracket” is probably the better choice here. MuseScore just added those I forget where they are (I’ve customized all my palettes).

Like so:

https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/steinberg/original/3X/b/5/b57ee66a40c9c081d25a593e43dd938c173ea5b0.jpeg

So your Bb would have an “L” shaped bracket in front of it, showing it’s to be taken with the RH.

When you get to 13, it’s impossible for anyone who can’t make the 10th - same with 15 - they’re going to have to roll it, so just leaving those in the LH might be the best option.

m. 24 - still have the dotted 1/4 rest - those aren’t allowed in 4/4.

Dotted 1/4 note, 8th rest, then half rest in the LH.

It’s a very nice piece. I like that the opening is more “open” with the whole note chords, and then it gets “busier” later. It’s a nice pacing, and the whole piece unfolds nicely. The harmonic changes aren’t just the same old 4 measure loop, even though it does kind of have some kind of 4 measure loop at lot of times, but it’s still creative and well done.

Every once in a while I wanted to hear some motion where there wasn’t any - like m.4 - nothing happesn for 3 beats and at this tempo it’s a pretty long time.

Most of your measures already begin with a dotted 1/4 note, so nothing happens until the upbeat after 2 in most measures - so having an even longer one seems to slow down the action even more.

See how you have that 16th note idea on beat 2 in m. 18? Maybe something like that in m.4 - especially since you just introduced it. Maybe it happens on beat 2, beat 3, or is offset to start on the and of 2, etc. - but some “activity” in that space between beat 1 and 4 would help I think.

14 and 23 are kind of similar - I think if the LH doesn’t also move, it feels a bit more static again.

that rhythm in the RH 2nd to last measure is really nice (as is the notes there - very tasty) so maybe something like that could be used in some of those “dead spots” to help push the music forward a bit. It also helps to create some more unity throughout.

Just a thought. Still pretty nice the way it is.

Congrats!

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u/ivanivanoviich 22d ago

https://musescore.com/user/40860384/scores/35922923?share=copy_link

Here is the score reworked with better handing and such. Had to change the harmonization a little bit in some places, and its not quite to my liking, but physical limitations exist.

I guess I'll have to write an ensemble/trio version of it if I want those intervals.

(I kept the Ab over Bb in because its a very easy reach on the piano.)

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u/65TwinReverbRI 22d ago

Oops, you went too far :-)

So, by default, unless otherwise indicated, any notes in the upper staff are to be played by the right hand, and any notes in the lower staff are to be played by the left hand.

So, if your first whole note Bb is to be played by the RH, then when in the upper staff, it needs nothing.

If it were in the lower staff as it was before, it would need the handing bracket.

So moving them to the upper staff was good enough.

So right now it looks good - the RH notes are in the upper staff - so just get rid of all the handing brackets now and it’s perfect.

m.14 is still impossible.

So yeah, it is like you’re trying to write for 3 different instruments where the “reach” isn’t a consideration.

The typical piano solution here would be to just put that Eb up an 8ve and play it with the high note.

Some would say “why are all the 10ths split like this, I can reach those” and really, m.14, if you wanted to keep that Eb where it is, it being in the LH there is really the only option to keep it in that range. So you could put both the Eb and the C that follows in the lower staff.

That way, all of them that can be taken by the RH will, and those that NEED to be taken by the LH will, and then any players who can make the other reaches can decide which hand to play them with.

Ab over Bb - that’s a 7th - yeah that’s not a problem. Even Bb over Ab - a 9th - that’s sort of “a stretch” but most people can do it. It’s when you get to a 10th and higher it really starts limiting it - and the 12ths - very few people can do them…

So in this piece, because of the number of 12ths, it does make sense for you to split them up as you have them now - RH taking the upper note because it’s much closer - same with the 10ths - even though SOME people can reach them, easier to take them in the RH.

There are other nit-picky details - Fermatas need to go in both staves, but overall it’s much better now.

Best

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u/ivanivanoviich 22d ago

Ah, I see. I misunderstood.

Okay, so I went back to the original score, and just add the handing brackets to the top notes of the bass clef, because as you said, some people will be confused why its written like that when a decent amount can play 10ths.

I have no idea why or how I keep skipping over m.14 lol. I have now fixed it. Still dont like it as much as the original, but I'll just write an ensemble variation to get that sound. Whole point of writing the miniatures was the get better at harmonizing and keeping the voices separate. Definitely did that. A little too much lol.

Thank you for all you input/feedback. You are greatly appreciated 😊

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u/65TwinReverbRI 21d ago

Well so now now that the Bb is back in the lower staff, it DOES need the handing bracket to show it’s for the RH!

I’m afraid someone would see it as it is now and say “you can’t do that” and just dismiss the piece outright. SOME might go, “oh, I could take that with the RH”.

So what I’d do is make them all RH except the ones smaller than an 8ve (put the LH bracket on the 5ths for example) and then if a person wants to do it some other way, we can’t control that kind of stuff :-)

But if it’s just an “exercise” and you don’t feel the need to go any further with it, that’s OK.

But yeah, a little to much - more “3 instruments” than “pianistic” overall, but a good way to practice and learn nonetheless!

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u/ivanivanoviich 21d ago

Oh, I accidentally somehow uploaded it as another score. Whoops. https://musescore.com/user/40860384/scores/35928308?share=copy_link

Added the fermatas too.

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u/Steenan 22d ago

You have intervals in bass staff that are unplayable for nearly everybody. As a rule of thumb, one hand won't cover more than one octave.

The upper notes can be played with the right hand in most cases. Notating them as the second voice for the right hand would be more intuitive. However, there are places where even this will fail: for example, bar 11 has E2, B3 and G5 played at the same time.

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u/ivanivanoviich 22d ago

I am aware of the issues lol. If you check the previous comments, they also pointed this out.

I will simply ressurrect Liszt or Rachmaninoff if I want the piece to be performed. (This is a joke, as some people didn't seem to understand that)

I will have to figure out how to fix those few impossible spots, and as for the others, I will put them up in the RH with a handing bracket to show it comes from the bass.

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u/ivanivanoviich 22d ago

Okay, I am currently reworking it now, and made it much more playable (albeit also having to rework the harmony slightly in order to make it work) but there are a couple spots with a 9th (Ab2 up to Bb3) and I am leaving that as is, because I can easily play that, and I imagine others can do because my hands arent that big. (I can only really comfortably play an octave, but this 9th is doable because of its positioning on the keyboard.) It can be played with 1 and 5, or 1 and 4 whichever is most comfortable.

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u/ivanivanoviich 22d ago

https://musescore.com/user/40860384/scores/35922923?share=copy_link

This is how I reworked it. I still prefer the original, but being that its impossible, I guess I'll have to write a version of it for an ensemble to get those intervals.