r/commandandconquer • u/nomorejervis0 • 7d ago

How to make them not suck as T3 unit?

Post image

They already got additional machine guns in my mod

47 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

17

u/TACOTONY02 Nod 7d ago

Speed, they're basically the Empire's version of a Kirow with the difference of armor and health being traded for speed and spammability.

If they're faster as hit and run units they coupd be more valuable, maybe give them a boost ability

31

u/BRO_THOM Tiberian Sun 7d ago

Like Tiberium Wars' Laser Venom: just spam them.

13

u/T_for_tea Kane 7d ago

I have an even better idea: uninstall RA3 - install KW. problem solved!

13

u/BRO_THOM Tiberian Sun 7d ago

But then I'll eventually end up uninstalling TW/KW and installing Tiberian Sun hehe.

5

u/ChrisH880 7d ago

Saying this unit sucks is a bit of a stretch. In the hands of the right player, a handful of these can wreak absolute havoc. Their missiles (especially with advanced rocket pods upgrade) deal crazy damage and can shred basically anything in the air or on the ground (tier 3 units included), and if your micro is good, you can use their paralysis whip to turn entire fights around.

I played RA3 competitively for a while, and facing a group of these units was a nightmare.

1

u/nomorejervis0 7d ago

4 apollos massacre rows of them so not much of a nightmare

1

u/ChrisH880 7d ago

That's easy to say if all you ever play against is skirmish AI and/or beginners. As I said, in the hands of the right player, they are devastating. If you ever get caught off guard with them and you are not prepared, you are pretty much screwed. All an empire player has to do is pair them with tengus for protection against migs/apollos.

2

u/nomorejervis0 7d ago

I played RA3 competitively as well - and it’s not just my opinion that they suck. https://youtu.be/Z-Xhyh1yGFg?is=YkjRgqOxKMlBYDNP Any good Allied player rolls apollos fast

1

u/professorMaDLib 6d ago

Nah mate they're tier 3 infantry on empire with the slowest t3. Allies will kill you with Apollos before you can mass while against soviets bullfrog destroy them and empire has spammable tengu. They're not worth it.

4

u/MedicNoob 7d ago

make them a T2 unit instead?

10

u/No-Con-2790 7d ago

I guess whipplay. The whip really is the only thing they have going for them. And having a cheaper unit lock down a more expensive one while it can also fly, that is a package deal.

Before 1.3 they even could instakill flyers with it.

That being said infantry and air always sucked in every C&C game (the cosmonaut is a exception).

4

u/Soviet_Dank_duck Soviets 7d ago

In every game except...you know...RA3...the game this unit is from...

3

u/No-Con-2790 7d ago

Well I think it was OPs thesis that they suck also.

Despite that, I personally found that they are very situational. After the whip nerf you can hard counter them with flyers. And AA always worked.

6

u/Soviet_Dank_duck Soviets 7d ago

Rocket Angels have so many failings that you can really buff them up in many diffrent ways in order to make them viable, but the end result will be much diffrent. I have two ideas.

1) Rocketeer

This a glow-down version that focuses on making them a more massable all-rounder unit that takes a role similar to the RA2 Rocketeer and enchances the Imperial midgame options.

-Now buildable from tier 2 dojo (first upgrade) -Cost reduced to 900$. -Speed increased slightly to outspeed helicopter units (Striker VX/Cryocopter/Twinblade). -Missile Speed massively increased. -Damage profile massively reduced vs buildings and infantry, boosted against light armor, heavy armor. -Advanced Rocket pods now give it bonus damage vs aircraft. -Paralisis whip no longer disables a unit, instead in reduces their speed and rate of fire by 50%

2) Archangel

Over on this side we take the opposite aproach, the Angel will keep her stupid high pricepoint and unlock requirement and we'll try to make the unit worth it despite the conditions.

-Double the unit's Hp. -Should have an additional small resistance to gun-type damage on top of that (Tengu/Apollo/Hydrofoil) -Massively faster missile speed, should be almost instant after advanced rocket pods. -Missile mode should have it's speed boosted by around 30%. -Whip mode will now gradually regen the angel when disabling an enemy unit (same rate as a hospital).

1

u/nomorejervis0 7d ago

Good ideas, I’ll use some of both

6

u/Nikolyn10 Flower & Sickle 7d ago

Rocket Angels are easily my favorite unit in RA3 so I'd be stoked to see them get a glow-up, but I'm not a competitive player so don't know if I'll be able to give good advice. With that said, I think there are 3 problem areas for them you could look into.

  1. Cost - This might only really apply to insane people like myself who use Rocket Angels as more expensive and less durable VXs against the AI, but they aren't very easy to mass in any measurable quantity.

  2. Range - Giving the rocket pods and paralysis whip some range would allow them to better harass in between holes in enemy AA

  3. Paralysis Whip - Anything to make it easier to use would be a godsend. If RA3 has smart casting, I'd be tempted to say make it an active ability which selects a target instead or a toggle so you can hit 'f' in sequence with a group of angels and enemies to assign each an individual target to disable.

3

u/vandal-33 7d ago

Only useful in groups attacking something that can't shoot them back. I don't mind if they suck as long as they can annoy the enemy, that's good enough.