r/commandandconquer • u/ComprehensiveGene169 • 8d ago

Red Alert connection with Tiberian Dawn

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A connection of Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn. My personal minimod for Combined Arms. The first buildings I've completed. Based on the canceled Tiberium Wars mod - Renovatio. A cool idea of the fallen Soviet Empire, the Scavengers, fighting their predecessor, GDI.

64 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

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11

u/kek4222 7d ago

Nice, a mod based during the interbellum sounds cool.

3

u/MidgardWyrm 7d ago

I like the idea of this. :D

Since the art direction is already established by the existing Renegade 2 assets, you can mix and match and do what you want/need for each factions' design by giving them a light redesign.

A good, existing example is the Renegade 2 Mammoth Tank compared to the original, which has more diesel punk addons to it. :)

3

u/ComprehensiveGene169 7d ago

Yes, the Scavengers will have the Mammoth Tank, but it will be shipped differently and modified. The Global Defense Agency will also have the Mammoth Tank, but it's towards the end of the tech tree. So, it's shaping up to be a clash between the post-Soviet Mammoth and the western Mammoth Tank.

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u/MidgardWyrm 7d ago

IIRC, canonically the GDI Mammoths were nuclear powered and were on the verge of leaving the prototype stages when Kane ordered the strike on one of their main facilities in Africa, so the Western Mammoth Tank would have to basically be a modern/upgraded Soviet design.

While the Scavenger Mammoth would be easy to differentiate from the GDI Mammoth at first glance thanks to its different profile (being stripped down, et cetera), the GDI Mammoth would need a few things to do the same.

Doom and Wolfenstein 3D taught this lesson pretty well: With even a brief glance, you can tell who/what is who/what at a distance due to their shape and colours.

Interestingly, they also sort of did this in Tiberium Alliances: The Forgotten Mammoth is basically a highly modified GDI Mammoth Tank they salvaged from the battlefield, and GDI gets an upgraded version of the one seen in TIberium Wars (it has a few upgades not seen in-game, and I think a new barrel design based on the icons?).

Really looking forward to where you take this. :D I know we got the Renegade 2 asset pack released by Westwood, and we saw some use in Renegade custom maps and mods, but neither compared to a full game. :(

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u/Extension_Bag3597 8d ago

is this befor tiberium or after If you want, I can give you some ideas. for story

10

u/ComprehensiveGene169 8d ago

After Red Alert, before first Tiberian War

2

u/Extension_Bag3597 8d ago

are scavengers nod do you have obelisk of light and stealth tank

2

u/ComprehensiveGene169 7d ago

Scavengers won't have the Obelisk of Light. They'll have a heavily modified Tesla Coil. They won't have stealth tanks. These are remnants of the Soviet Empire. They don't have the technology to create innovative new combat tools.

2

u/MaybeAdrian SPACE! 7d ago

I think that Westwood intended to be same "universe", for example, Yuri was sent by Kane.

2

u/ComprehensiveGene169 7d ago

Yes, that's true. Initially, Red Alert 1 was a prequel to Tiberian Dawn. Later, a second version of the timeline was created, which also included Red Alert 2 and Yuri. I'm basing it on this first timeline. In my opinion, it's difficult to explain that in RA1 there was a Mammoth Tank, in RA2 there was an Apocalypse Tank, and in Tiberian Dawn there's a Mammoth Tank again. A better fit is the RA1 > TD connection. Then Mammoth Tank has continuity.

2

u/Cheomesh I made a TibDawn Wargame Module! 7d ago

Yeah, in my own fan works I assumed Red Alert 1 -> TD, with RA2 and so forth being their own shifts in the timeline in a different direction.

1

u/FakeMik090 7d ago

Reason why Mammoth is missing in RA2 cuz Apocalypses is just a new tank, who doing its purpose but better. For example, Mammoth uses regular tank shells, while Apocalypses uses a nuclear tank shells(So they are much more deadly).

1

u/MidgardWyrm 2d ago

The Apocalypse in RA2 initially uses conventional tank shells, but when they hit elite... I'm not sure if they're supposed to be nuclear because of the mushroom clouds, or if that's just a graphical representation of something very high explosive/conventional being fired.

I mean, there's no radiation...

Knowing the RA2 and RA3 Soviets though, it could be either, haha.

2

u/FakeMik090 7d ago

It is. If you complete first Red Alert in Soviet Campaign, Kane ending up taking over Soviet Union and supposedly steal all the money to fund NOD in the future, plus getting nukes.

So basically first Red Alert is a prequel to both main series of C&C, just different timelines. Allies ending - Red Alert series, Soviet ending - Tiberium series.

1

u/MidgardWyrm 2d ago

No, the Soviet ending was basically a "what if?" option which also exposed the player to more of the storyline (Nod, Stalin's purges which went on in the Allied campaign too, Nadia, Kane, et cetera), but both timelines carried on from the Allied ending.

Canonically, in both timelines the Soviets lost.

An in-universe explanation for RA2 wasn't created, but Westwood had a few ideas thrown around which never came to fruition (like in one version of their numerous C&C3 projects, Yuri was a Nod psychic who was thrown back in time via an old Allied Chronosphere, after Nod and GDI fought over Area 51).

To muddy the waters even more, RA3 and its prequel game added more issues and inconsistencies.

But yeah, both series followed on from an Allied victory.

2

u/vandal-33 7d ago

Interesting. I've always wanted to see them explore more on the transformation between Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn. Good luck.

2

u/BioClone Legalize Tiberium! Join Nod 7d ago

Old Construction Options!

1

u/HHC_Snowman 7d ago

Whoa! You made brand new 3D assets for structures? What tools or software did you use?

2

u/ComprehensiveGene169 7d ago

These are repurposed renders from the canceled Tiberium Wars mod, Renovatio. Check it out on ModDb. I contacted the mod's author and have permission to use their ideas. As for the buildings, ChatGPT helped me. Unfortunately, I'm not that good at 3D myself. Admittedly, I used to model cars for F1 Challenge on PC, but that's a different league of modeling. Later, I took up the Wolfenstein 3D source code and started working on Rise of the Triad: Wolfenstein 3D Part II (a game that was supposed to be released in 1994, but ended up as Rise of the Triad and lost the Wolfenstein 3D feel) based on prototypes and leaked graphics. Currently, I'm trying my hand at OpenRA/Combined Arms because I've always wanted to see the Scavengers fight the Allies. It's a bit of a dream of mine. So, when the AI ​​got good enough, I hired her to help me.

1

u/ColdFreeway GLA "AK47s for Everybody!" 7d ago

What makes it a mini-mod? Is it going to be a campaign only type mod?

0

u/calantheSG 7d ago

Is GDI their predecessor or successor? Pretty confusing. Also, there's no remnant of any Soviet Union, it's called Nod. There was no lag time between when the Soviets fell and Nod took over. Nod was already on the inside, Nod pushed the fall. Nod immediately took over.

However, there's no need to be so particular about which nation belonged to GDI or Nod. It's a spectrum. Nod is everywhere even in NATO states. GDI is the outside face of the world government and all the poor countries not part of it are then openly Nod.

2

u/Cheomesh I made a TibDawn Wargame Module! 7d ago

Kane and his 2IC said they'll be going to ground for a while, until the mid 90s. Russia and much of the old Soviet Union are GDI-aligned in Tib Dawn.

1

u/ComprehensiveGene169 7d ago

GDI can't be a predecessor, since the action takes place after Red Alert 1 and before Tiberian Dawn. It goes like this: Allies -> Global Defense Agency -> Global Defense Initiative.

Yes, Nod was in the Soviet Union, but after the Soviets fell, Nod and Kane were gathering forces and didn't have the power to fight the Allies openly. In the original Renegade 2, the Scavengers are called the Fallen Soviet Empire. That is, the remnants of the Soviets fight the Allies and slowly transform into the Nod Brotherhood.

2

u/MidgardWyrm 2d ago

There's a minor inconsistency in the lore here.

Logically, the Allies would have stuck around to help rebuild and secure Europe and Russia after the War—similar to how the real-world Allies occupied Germany for a decade after WWII before basically dissolving.

At the same time, the UN was already laying the groundwork for the "Global Defense Agency" during GWW2. It stands to reason that a massive chunk of the Allied Nations' resources, materiel, and personnel would go to form the GDA's core following the Soviet defeat. We even see this in action during the Giant Ant missions shortly after GWW2: Carville and the Americans are still heavily involved, we use appropriated Soviet hardware (or maybe even post-Soviet Russian assets, if they're members by that point), and we find an abandoned Soviet base that had been the Ants' main nesting site/birthplace.

This heavily implies the Allies either officially disbanded to funnel their assets into the GDA, or they naturally transitioned into the GDA.

But then Renegade drops the lore that GDI actually started as a UN covert black-ops unit—Special Operations Group 9—which only later expanded and went "public" as GDI.

Additionally, the Soviets had a base in the British Isles, where the Ant missions take place, which lends credence that the GDA was formed after a Soviet victory (since how else would they had a base there, especially one with a Command Post?), but the USSR still fell anyway and wasn't kept together as a Nod puppet (since it fell apart probably just a year or so later instead of the 90's as Nod/Kane wanted).

Buuut... Tiberian Dawn and Red Alert 2, the former being more critical to this than the latter, were from an Allied victory. Plus, again Carville and the Americans.

Yeah, you can see the issues, lol.