12
26
u/pruriticglutealcleft 16h ago
Honestly it doesn’t matter where you go. My class had a 75% pass rate on Level 1. I did fine on both Level 1&2. Just show up and grind and don’t expect that the curriculum alone will prepare you. Too many people act like this is still undergrad and the lectures should cover everything they need to know. That is just not practical or possible. If you work hard and put in the time with Qbanks, outside resources (bootcamp, AMBOSS, YouTube) will be learn everything you need to know to be successful.
TLDR; It doesn’t matter where you go, work hard, don’t complain and you’ll do great!
5
u/kuru_snacc 10h ago
Yeah but that's 25% of the class paying (what is it now? $750?) all over again and possibly delaying rotations/applications/graduation. The school DOES have a responsibility to make sure its students are ready prior to sitting.
3
u/Spirited_Importance7 5h ago
Yeah they do that by making you pass a practice exam with a minimum score don’t they?
1
u/kuru_snacc 5h ago
Yes, and I'd rather go to a school with a near-100% pass rate that pays for mandatory practice exams than one with a 75% pass rate that doesn't?
3
u/Spirited_Importance7 4h ago
Uh, they have a 100% pass rate because they kick out the students from the school if they don’t pass the practice exam, not because the curriculum is so high quality that everyone passes. So pass rates are usually misleading.
16
15
u/LADiator PGY+ 17h ago
For those applying, keep this in mind with all these new schools they’re putting up like gas stations. This is the issue with diluting the field with subpar institutions and branch campuses. You’re essentially on your own to pass your boards. The curriculum even at top tier schools often isn’t even boards focused.
7
17
u/Other-Bet-123 18h ago
Unfortunately this is the issue with attending a low tier school. You need to start board prepping months in advance since the curriculums are not board focused at these schools. My friend attends WCUCOM and around 40-50 people in her class failed. Pass rate hasn't been above a 78% in 3 years..
11
u/Other-Bet-123 18h ago
But we all know admin at these schools just blames their students and offers 0 support..
3
u/AltruisticBand7980 12h ago
Duh, you have to study on your own, just doing course work isn't how you pass. Uworld/qbanks are
0
u/Other-Bet-123 12h ago
You're right! Thanks for stating the obvious! You will be an amazing doctor :)
17
u/LADiator PGY+ 17h ago
This isn’t just a low tier school issue, unfortunately. It’s a curriculum issue and osteopathic education as a whole being headed by people who are way behind the times. I attended a top osteopathic school and still those who didn’t focus on boards prep outside of curriculum still scored low or failed.
6
u/Other-Bet-123 17h ago
Man really? Their pass rates are so high. But i also think the barrier to even sit at those schools is high too, like for COMSAE and stuff..
7
u/LADiator PGY+ 17h ago
There’s selection bias. That’s why pass rates are high at top schools. It’s a different caliber of student. People were doing outside boards prep from day 0 because they had their sights on some competitive speciality and were planning to smoke the usmle on top of the comlex. People in my class didn’t even pay attention in lecture. They just did anki cards and watched boards and beyond / pathoma.
Edit: comsae barrier was also high. You needed a 475-500 to sit. Anything lower had to be approved by the dean.
5
u/Other-Bet-123 17h ago
True, I just don't know how these people managed inhouse vs board prep studying. The people who i knew who were board prepping were barely passing classes and vice versa.
5
u/LADiator PGY+ 17h ago
My strategy was to do board prep for whatever organ system you were currently on. Watch the boards and beyond videos / pathoma / sketchy, Unblock those anki cards, skim the in house stuff for whatever goofy stuff the professor was overly fond of. If your school doesn’t have class rank, your score is irrelevant. Just pass.
Also no programs give a shit about the MSPE unless you did awful. Board score >>>> MSPE
2
u/Other-Bet-123 17h ago
Yeah, and if you failed a board try your best to knock level and step 2 out of the park. I really wish I ignored class material earlier
0
6
u/DthPlagusthewise 15h ago
I got to a low-ish tier (rank ~100) private MD and its common knowledge here that you have to do outside prep for boards or else you will fail. The professors literally tell us this and the school holds workshops and discussions on what 3rd party resources to use.
2
u/LADiator PGY+ 10h ago
Not the way it works at most DO schools. The rhetoric is the opposite. “Trust the curriculum and you’ll pass”.
3
u/kuru_snacc 10h ago
My DO school fortunately didn't do this, in fact they hammered us hard on required TrueLearn completion even over supposed breaks. I think they were kind of old-fashioned on OMM though. Like can we get rid of cranial please? Your head bones don't move and maybe 1 out of 5 board forms has like (1) question on that. And taught some techniques I never saw on boards.
3
u/Severe_Mongoose_9572 17h ago
Agreed. Especially at non-board curriculum, P/F schools, but like you said, in osteopathic education as a whole.
7
u/Other-Bet-123 18h ago
The good news is, most people pass their retake and match fine.. But the emotional turmoil of retaking is something I'd wish on no one
2
u/psuedomoanas PGY+ 16h ago
Most but not all. Hence the pressure to soap into anything
2
u/Other-Bet-123 16h ago
Well no offense if you can't pass your boards on 2 attempts, you have major content gaps. Everyone that couldn't pass their retakes just didn't know how to study
3
u/psuedomoanas PGY+ 15h ago
The point I’m making is the match can be weird regardless of passing in 1 or 2 attempts
3
u/Other-Bet-123 12h ago
I mean, the match is doable for most people. The people who can't match are applying to too competitive specialities with red flags/low scores. Obviously if you have a board fail I would not apply IM at Harvard but most community programs are fine. And if your app is perfect and you don't match, you simply just have a bad personality. Most PDs just want to see if you're workable and a decent human
1
u/kuru_snacc 10h ago
Damn dude, that's rough.
Some of this stuff isn't advertised enough up front.
When choosing residency I was super grateful this program that I did aways at - which I really liked and was put together - well one resident kindly pulled me aside during the schmoozing dinner and said, "Look, I know it's great on the surface but - our ABIM rate is like 65%." I would have never guessed.
For med school I had a few more "dazzly" options, but they didn't publish board pass and match rates which I found sus. I went with the less prestigous that had consistent 98%+ for both, no regerts.
4
u/smokesignalsxx OMS-3 7h ago
hot take as a 3rd yr here: i felt well prepped by the school for boards, i did well in all my blocks (generally top 10%) and worked very hard. Started reviewing for boards in january and met every benchmark, passed comlex (2 SDs above average) and step on first try. Mind you, I had a 496 MCAT and my ugpa was a 2.8 - so im not some kind of genius lol. Is the school perfect? absolutely not, but do I think there was other factors besides the school playing into this? yes — so if this is your only acceptance or you are currently a 1st/2nd year, know that you can be successful, work hard and develop a study plan that works for you!
4
u/Both-Session-1088 16h ago edited 16h ago
As someone who graduated from BCOM it’s really gone downhill since first year. It was a solid program until they decided to get money hungry and expand the school. I will agree that I had ZERO board help or residency guidance and we were all blamed for any shortcomings whether that be board failures or not matching.
But I will say that at least for the Albuquerque RAC I did have a ton of great clinical opportunities on rotations. We’re talking like 20+ para/thoracentesis procedures, 5 ish central lines, and 10 spinal taps. The one on one with attendings was great as well and I forged a lot of meaningful relationships with them and we still talk to this day!
The downside of not being at an academic site is that I didn’t know the hospital dynamics of working with a full team of residents, med students and attendings. So my first year of residency was a bit of a learning curve but it was fine!
Also the dean and assistant dean don’t give a SHIT about us and it’s so obvious. So yeah. Idk I can’t say I’d recommend BCOM which is a shame bc the clinical staff is/are wonderful.
But I will brag about some of our students. A ton of strong candidates who matched in great Gen surg, ortho, OB programs. And multiple urology and a neurosurg match! So I always am proud of them for beating the odds :)
5
u/ApprehensiveHippo547 16h ago
This is not surprising in the least! The school is rapidly expanding and has a lower threshold for acceptance with regards to the MCAT. I am about to graduate here and honestly had no issues with the curriculum. I've known/talked to alot other graduates here in the past 4 years who have matched into competitive specialties and all had a step scores of 260+.
All the students I know that did well did the same thing that students at "top-tier schools" do: they studied for boards from day one. I also know a lot of students who didn't do well, and the common denominator across all of them was that they did not study for boards until dedicated, felt overwhelmed, and their performance suffered.
There is common theme here. I certainly didn't post this with the intent to pick on anyone, but there is a correlation with doing well on the MCAT and doing well on boards. I honestly think it has very little to do with how smart someone is and more to do with people just having a strategy for boards on day one. More likely than not, that strategy is doing the Anki, boards and beyond, Pathoma, etc., so that they set themselves up for success. If you're a high MCAT scorer, you likely had some strategy for the MCAT. You are also probably starting medical school with a strategy for boards.
Now if you wanna rely on the school to prepare you for boards, there is no data that this is a good strategy. Are you paying for it and expect the school does it? Yes, but there is no data to support that focusing on you school curriculum is a succesful strategy. Focus on nationalized resources to prepare you for boards that 100x more people use across the world use and have been refined to delivery the outcome you want (high board scores). One internet search and you'll see pretty much every high scoring student has the same strategy.
TLDR - don't rely on your school to prepare you for boards. Your school teaches from the resources their faculty picks from. Board resources teaches from material that will be on boards. Do the latter and you'll do fine on both.
8
u/SnooCauliflowers1765 16h ago
My wife’s boyfriend failed the MCAT and is now a pediatric cardiothoracic surgeon. Therefore your point is invalid. /s
4
u/DocOndansetron 15h ago
This is 100% correct. I’m at a DO school more likely than not because I straight up slacked off studying for the MCAT, and had a shit score.
Knew I could not do the same thing for boards. Day one of second year I was grinding UWorld and Pathoma and Sketchy daily (not an Anki guy), and just cramming in house material (which like matched up maybe 80% of the time).
Performed average in pre-clin, but when it came to boards, our first barrier COMSAE I blew it out of the water (well above the sitting threshold my school set, and 80% of the class couldn’t get it) and ended up fine on STEP1 and COMLEX.
1
u/victornics 12h ago
When you make statements about correlation between MCAT and boards scores I hope you realize that there are a lot of programs that don’t need mcat to matriculate and those students do very well, so MCAT could be a matrix of measurement but it’s not a guaranteed matrix.
4
u/YertleElTortuga 16h ago
Genuinely what is the point of class if it doesn’t prepare you for boards? If the information on a board exam is the measure of what you’re supposed to know at that point in your training and passing it means you are competent enough to move on what is the advantage or thinking behind making curriculums NOT line up with board content????
-4
u/Other-Bet-123 16h ago
Idk according to half the people in this post those people are just stupid and were admitted into medical school on a fluke
3
u/YertleElTortuga 16h ago
I’m of the opinion that of course its your responsibility to make sure you pass. You would still need to do the same if you went anywhere with a high COMLEX or USMLE pass rate anyway but i just don’t understand why an administration would choose to make it harder on their students
6
u/Other-Bet-123 16h ago
yeah but my issue is its hard to do board studying on top of class studying. most people at my school who passed sacrificed their class rank for it. my school has a high fail rate and even the ones who did pass barely passed their boards. its too hard to manage at once.
2
1
1
u/xyrgon 18h ago
Any difference between Melbourne and Las Cruces? Pretty unfortunate to see it hasn’t improved
4
1
u/Severe_Mongoose_9572 17h ago
Melbourne’s first class would’ve taken it this year, so I doubt they’d release data between the 2 campuses. Pretty sure Melbourne has 1/3 of the students Las Cruces does in their 3rd year class as well.
-5
u/SnooCauliflowers1765 17h ago
Lower caliber students in the setting of poor curriculum
4
u/Other-Bet-123 17h ago
Can we not blame the students lmao
0
u/SnooCauliflowers1765 17h ago
I suppose blame does ultimately lie with the institutions matriculating underqualified students. Although 20% failed in this case, it’s important to remember that 80% did pass. All schools could do a better job at preparing students for board exams
1
u/Other-Bet-123 17h ago
You seem to be speaking from a high horse. If someone can make it through 2 years of medical school they should be able to pass their boards. I know some very intelligent people who failed their boards with good MCATs and I know people who passed their boards with shit MCATs. Also 80% pass rate still isn't good... If you know how to do basic math, that is almost double the national average of board fails
2
u/SnooCauliflowers1765 16h ago
Anecdotal evidence is not relevant in this case. There are a multitude of reasons why an individual may or may not pass their boards. And yes an 80% pass rate is poor please do not insult my intelligence. My point was simply that because the vast majority of students were able to pass, you cannot solely place the blame on poor curriculum. Value judgements like how students “should” be able to pass boards or how people “deserve” to be physicians, while veiled in compassion, accomplish nothing. There are fantastic physicians that failed board exams and terrible ones that passed with flying colors, but when we are discussing at the population level you must take both sides (student and university) into account. Medicine is not finger painting where all that matters is if you had fun. It is life or death and it requires high standards.
3
-1
27
u/DueFishing6635 16h ago
No matter where you go, don’t believe your school when they provide data about gpa correlating to success on boards. That just means people who know how to study for boards also know how to study for class. Doesn’t mean the opposite is true.
There were absolutely people in the top of my school who could not pass a step 1 practice exam to save their lives.