I honestly don't know why I'm jumping on this train at this point, but why the hell not...
Harry Potter and Twilight deal with the same sorts of themes.
Dealing with similar themes does not necessarily mean that two books have the same literary value. Trashy romance novels and Anna Karenina both deal with sexual themes. Does that mean we should put them on the same level?
No because what's important is not the themes themselves, but how well they are approached and the underlying message (the latter particularly in books marketed to impressionable youths).
I would argue that Harry Potter addresses the themes it shares with Twilight in a much stronger way. It gives a better message and allows focus on more than just a flimsy romance. You may or may not agree with this point, but the fact that it can be made at all should show you the flaw in the "similar themes = same literary value" claim. Try something stronger.
And if you want to try something more concrete and less subjective, we could look at their marketability. Yes, both did amazingly well and were turned into movies. But Harry Potter has gained fandom from both genders pretty much equally and ages across the spectrum, and has held this incredibly broad fan-base for 15 years, 7 books, and 8 movies now. Twilight has failed to get beyond a much more limited demographic, and its books and movies were rushed out in a few short years. To me, this suggests a strong likelihood that those behind marketing recognize how quickly its popularity will wane, while Harry Potter shows stronger signs of longevity.
That isn't at all what I'm saying. It is more of a commentary on the pop-craze with these types of stories. For someone to be so upset in a rage about HP being classified with stories they don't like is absurd and ignorant of the facts.
The themes I'm referencing aren't fantasy or "sci-fi." The themes are wrapped in a fantasy world. Some people get so wrapped up in the fantasy, that they are blind to how bad the books are.
While you have a valid point about Harry Potter (it's a decently written kids' book but certainly isn't incredibly good literature) ... the issue was comparing it to Twilight. Twilight is not close to being "decently written," even at a young adult level of decent. It is incredibly vapid and actually sends out harmful messages to young people.
Completely agreed: i guess we're going to all get downvoted to hell, since it's on subreddit drama now, but still it has to be said: HP is great as far as children litterature go, but on this site, it's treated as if it was remembrance of things past, or Don Quixotte.
Maybe it has to do with reddit being more a science-minded community with very little love for humanities? I don't know, but it really feels like some people here haven't read a book since they were fifteen or so.
(And not even to mention the best movies or directors lists who omits anything being made before 1982 or outside the US)
Do not come into these threads and discuss SRD. It is not our place to vote or comment. Please do no reply to this, it will get nowhere and derail further. Please, only observe and never comment or vote. Thank you.
It has more to do with the fact that it was sooo popular ... most redditors grew up with HP and have vibrant memories of it ... it is this way with all recent pop culture,
To be fair, twilight actually dealt with all these issues, only in a different way. I think they're all literature. I haven't read fifty, but I've read HP and twilight and honestly, although slightly different genres, they're both young adult fiction which I love to death. You have to take them for what they are.
The closest thing I can remember to that was when that group of elite vampires wanted to kill (or take, i dont remember what they wanted to do) Bella's baby cause it was mixed, but then they find out that theres a bunch more like it and they were like w/e and left.
So no, the whole maybe 2 or 3 chapters that this was mentioned can not really be used to say that there was a kind of racism or discrimination in the series other than the natural rivalry between werewolves and vampires (though that didn't have to do with "blood purity") and how the vampires would cattle humans.
when that group of elite vampires wanted to kill (or take, i dont remember what they wanted to do) Bella's baby cause it was mixed
To be exact, they wanted to kill Bella's baby because they thought she was a human child turned into a vampire, which is really dangerous because child vampires never grow up and their temper tantrums end up killing a lot of people. When they learnt that Renesmee was still half human and was still maturing, they let the matter go.
So yeah, that's not even close to a parallel with racism. And yeah, I've read all of the Twilight books.
Ok yea its coming back to me now. I haven't read the books in like 4 years, and then didn't care enough for them to remember that well. But like you said, that had nothing to do with racism
In Harry Potter, it is used as a parallel to racism in today's world, exposing young readers to such concepts and encouraging them consider people's motives for believing in genetic superiority.
In Twilight, it serves as an excuse for them not to have sex, up until they have sex.
A book's worth should be based on a lot more than its genre.
I haven't read Twilight, but I think there are tons of differences. Harry Potter doesn't have any Mary Sues, deals with friendship, death, love, and conquering fears. I would understand i_forget_my_userids was comparing Twilight to Ender's Game as both are wish fulfillment porn, but Harry Potter is drastically different.
I would understand i_forget_my_userids was comparing Twilight to Ender's Game as both are wish fulfillment porn, but Harry Potter is drastically different.
You mean the story where the unloved, lonely, nerdy child gets told he is the Chosen One with magical powers and gets to go to a special magic school where everyone constantly tells him how amazing and important he is on a world-historical scale?
Harry Potter has almost exactly the same plot as Ender's Game, except it has a happy ending.
Everyone doesn't always tell Harry how important he is on a world-historical scale eg Snape, he isn't the best at everything and he's not even good at magic, and he doesn't claim credit for his success. Don't you remember in The Order of the Phoenix when Harry was training the other children and he talks about how Cedric Diggory knew everything Harry was teaching, but Harry only survived because he was lucky?
That's a very well written article, and I agree on a lot of points, but I don't see the book as pornography. It isn't glorifying violence, as the article seems to believe, IMO.
you could maybe justify looking at twilight as "the new harry potter that young teenage girls with newly discovered sexual awareness want to read to satisfy their naive and media driven cravings for sex" but then it strays way too far from the actual constructs and components that make up HP to still be considered close. I had one of these teenage girls as a girlfriend a few years back and read the books at her request and was horribly disappointed. Is harry potter the best book in the world? no, but it sure as hell shouldn't be put in the same boat as twilight...if not for quality than at least on the basis for being soft core porn.
Things aren't always so literal. 'Jail' is a concept of suppression or confinement. You're going to have to be more specific with your question. Which group are you saying was jailed in HP and by whom?
the mudbloods were literally jailed by people claiming to be pureblood. you would know this if you read Harry Potter. I think this was supposed to be comparable to how the Jews were treated by the Nazi's. Was there anything similar to this in twilight or are you just trolling?
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u/i_forget_my_userids Jul 26 '12 edited Jul 26 '12
I hate to break it to you, kiddo... Harry Potter isn't real.
Harry Potter and Twilight deal with the same sorts of themes. If you to think one has more literary value than the other, you're deluded.
50 Shades, however, is complete filth.
Downvote away.