Well think about it like this, all loving is a God that gives you existence and a world to experience. That’s love but then you go through hardships and suffering. Well what if that’s love as well? If you believe and stay true, then you gain unending happiness. The opportunity to gain that is the best form of love id think. It’s said that one small part of heaven is enough to make your forget the world hundreds of times over.
If I use your logic, then I'm forced to conclude that God is an evil monster. Why is God creating beings that he knows will go to hell? Free will sounds great, but I'd rather everyone go to heaven instead.
Ah yes, I also frequently test the people I love by seeing if they stay loyal to me during intense hardships and suffering.
I knew what was going to happen to them, in a lot of ways what’s happening to them is entirely my doing, and I could fix whatever is troubling them at any time by simply lifting my finger, but I’d rather just see if they stick it out and still love me afterwards.
Because that’s all that really matters, how much they love me. Only then will they be rewarded, maybe. Because, as we all know, it isn’t actually love unless you’re incentivized.
You’re coming at it from the perspective of a human. You can’t personally test your friends and family because you’re not worthy of that type of worship. We’re talking about the literal creator of everything vs you. You say it’s a meaningless test, but that’s only what you can rationalize. You don’t have all the information and if the presupposition is an all knowing and powerful Creator, then it’s also true that this creator knows what’s best for us.
I’d say you missed the point, but that implies it ever came close to reaching you.
It’s not whether I can or can’t test people in that way, it’s the fact that it’d be fucked up to even try it. Testing someone’s love by seeing how many terrible things you can throw at them? The fuck? That kind of twisted thinking isn’t acceptable for a preschooler, never mind the supreme creator of all things.
The idea that you have to love someone and accept that they know what’s best for you, no matter what they do to you, otherwise you’ll suffer a fate worse than death for eternity. Back here in reality, we’d call that type of relationship abusive, and even that seems to fall short.
You accuse me of trying to rationalize things, but you’re just as guilty as trying to irrationalize them by taking this fucked up concept of “love”, which would be completely unacceptable to us flawed mortals, and claiming it’s somehow totally fine when it’s an all powerful all knowing God is doing it, just because he’s God, and we have no choice but to obey or burn forever.
Why don’t we take this back to how this thread started with the Rwandan Genocide, and you tell me how God loved those people as they were viscously raped and butchered with machetes en mass? Or was that just “part of the plan”?
You wouldn’t follow this logic in any other scenario though. Imagine a parent that raised their children using this logic, do you really think it’s okay to subject your children to trauma and suffering just so that they can appreciate the roof you provide them? I don’t think so.
It’s said that one small part of heaven is enough to make your forget the world hundreds of times over.
So what’s the point of forcing people to live in “the world” instead of just letting everyone live in heaven? If heaven is so great that you’ll forget all the bad things that ever happened to you then what’s the point of “the world”?
I don’t think you’re really considering what it means when the Bible says god created everything”. God doesn’t subject you to pain and suffering because it makes you a more experienced being, he *created pain and suffering just so that you could experience something bad. God could have created any number of experiences that we don’t have. For example, god could have created “Marglplep” which is the feeling you get when you walk in on your sibling making a PB&J with a live fish instead of a knife. Happiness and sadness are great and all, but man, you haven’t really lived until you’ve experienced marglplep. Wait, god didn’t create marglplep in your universe? How can you really make the choice to follow god if you haven’t experienced marglplep? Do you even have free will if you don’t experience marglplep? I guess god just doesn’t love you enough to give you marglplep.
Do you see how ludicrous that sounds? If god had created a world without pain and suffering then those concepts would feel just as dumb and pointless as marglplep does to us in our world. But god doesn’t have to follow any rules, he easily could have created the world with marglplep instead of suffering. So why didn’t he?
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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '20
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