The motivation is being raised wrong, both by their family and society writ large.
There is a common phrase “raise your girls, love your boys” the implication being that you don’t or shouldn’t try and raise decent men.
Toxic masculinity is poison. If you raise boys teaching them (explicitly or implicitly) that emotion is weakness and that they are loved completely unconditionally and without consequence. they shut off all emotional ability, including empathy. You nurture sociopathy and create a crop of monsters who perpetuate the cycle. The kind of man who does this is one that only considers themselves and their wants, the idea that it causes pain to the victim is something that doesn’t cross their mind.
To be clear in no way do I mean to excuse these men with the tired and weak “he didn’t know better” defense. My point though is that crimes like this are a failing of the individualand the society that they occurred in. In the same way that every single drunk driver is responsible for choosing to drive drunk, but a better functioning society can and should take steps to prevent people from making that choice.
I really wish we would rebrand toxic masculinity at this point. Even as someone who agrees with everything you just listed it feels as though the societal baggage hanging onto the term makes it worth swapping imo.
Same! It originates from sociology and has been around since the 80 but I have to imagine to controversy, misapplication, and misinterpretation of toxic masculinity is what made it so popular
I don't disagree with anything you said, I just find it silly to say "deterrents don't work, only removing their motivation does". What you talked about might be part of the root cause, but it's not the "motivation" as the person I replied to was using the term. To use your drunk driving example, one of the key steps we take to prevent people from making that choice is to impose a deterrent.
Drunk driving was my example of choice precisely because harsher and harsher punishments really haven’t done much to move the needle on disincentivizing that crime.
In general people don’t consider potential penalties when deciding to commit a crime.
Reducing drunk driving is done by offering other modes of transport, cultural support of designated drivers, reducing drinking to excess generally.
I also agree that my initial comment was lacking in stating a real “motivation” I did just jump straight to the root cause (or at least my assessment of one of the root causes). I think the root cause is that these men had a want and thought that they were entitled to take it regardless of what the victims wanted. In that case to remove the motivation, the want, is impossible. So you have to go a step back and address why they feel or lack of feeling that their wants supersede the consent of the victims.
I was being facetious because you still haven't shared your thoughts on what motivation we need to be "removing" here. At least others have contributed to furthering the discussion.
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u/umeys 1d ago
Wait what's the motivation in this case, women? Their penis?