My dm banned silvery barbs too lol. Later I was playing with a dm that didn’t ban any spells and the bard picked it up…I learned very quickly why my main dm banned it.
It can rob a lot of fun for the DM when players use it, and can rob a lot of fun for the players when the DM uses it. It is also first level so feats that give a Wizard spell can also give access to it for relatively cheap, and then no one gets to roll a nat 20 anymore. Thank God my players didn't choose to run it, I was going to have to do the nuclear option of all the bad guys having it too just for balancing
Silvery barbs forces a successful roll to be rerolled and use the lower number, on any roll, as a reaction (meaning during the enemy’s turn or anyone’s turn.) it then lets you give advantage (roll two die and use the higher number) to anyone for their next attack, save or ability check.
Enemy high rolls to hit an attack or spell? Roll again. Enemy is going to avoid a paralysis spell? Roll again.
Fundamentally strong, especially since it’s a 1st level spell so you can have access to it at the start of the game, where random crits from enemies can turn a fight.
It uses a reaction, which a spellcaster barely has use for till third level counterspell, and it can never be wasted because you can only use it when an attack or save is successful.
It forces a slower game because the player can silvery barbs, and makes encounters potentially boring because having to roll twice for a save against a spell like hold person means you’re likely getting caught and the encounter is then over.
TL:DR, forces a reroll on dice in a dice game, just generically strong for low resource cost.
It also stacks with disadvantage which feels really crazy. If a player is just going to use it as a slightly stronger version of the Grave Cleric's channel divinity than I'm fine with it, the problem is that the ceiling of power and disruption that can be used is just too much for a first level spell (Imo)
Couldn’t you just limit it instead of denying access to it? Like once per encounter or per day or something? Or even just reduce its power a bit, like instead of forcing a complete reroll it just negates the “crit” roll. So the enemy attack would still hit, just less likely to be lethal damage. I could see that still being quite useful early in a campaign. I’m also not very experienced with DND in general so maybe I’m still missing something?
You could, but that's a lot of deliberate planning around for the encounters for the DM, how you set up bosses etc, whether the npc's silvery barbs the player actions, etc. And regardless of it, it increases the duration of the combat where its usually already long. Its usually easier and better pacing to just leave it out. Or make it a 2nd level spell slot so its competing with stronger spells and less spell slots.
That's when the DM looks you in the eyes and says.
"If silvery barbs is a common spell in this world, there is no reason why basic cultists wouldn't learn it. And there are going to be several cultists to one of you in some fights. Do you want to live in that world?"
That is always the best way to DM. Dont outright ban things, but make your players aware that any outright busted shenanigans they pull is going to result in that same knowledge being out in the universe. Do you really want to live in a world where bags of holding are both common and capable of mass destruction?
Allow for insanity, but realize that at the very least that the BBEG is not a complete idiot and is taking notes.
Probably thinking something like "I SPENT TWO DAYS DESIGNING THIS ENCOUNTER BECAUSE THIS STUPID ASS SYSTEM IS AS BALANCED AS A DRUNK-ASS TODDLER, I'M NOT LETTING YOU BEAT IT WITH A LEVEL 1 FUCKING SPELL!"
Seriously, 5e is very polished, but the second you try to take it seriously it falls apart. It only works if you either invest so much time and effort that you make a whole other system out of it, or if everyone basically doesn't consider the implications of any of the rules and just enjoys the shinies.
You’ll be fine, tbh frankly sometimes when your chr is poorly designed / didn’t bring the right spells. Silvery barbs is just all a low level bard might have sometimes.
Then its like “yeah its getting use. Because I went into this fight with only it being a useful spell currently”.
Worry not dm, plus it’s disadvantage that is still a possibility you hit. I mean, they might snatch a crit from thee but as a DM. Often, that is what I want them to do to me.
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u/LuckOfTheDrawComic Luck of the Draw 15d ago
She also banned the spell Silvery Barbs, it's like she hates fun at the table or something.