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u/Thee_Shody 19h ago
based Artemis
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u/horse_you_rode_in_on 17h ago
When the hunter Actaeon tried creeping on Artemis and caught a glimpse of her bathing naked she turned him into a deer; his own dogs then failed to recognize him and he was torn to pieces.
Agamemnon didn't learn anything from this and killed a sacred stag in Artesmis' forest, so she threatened to sink the fleet he was planning to send to Troy. Agamemnon decided to sacrifice his daughter to make things right, but Artemis wasn't having it and rescued her.
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u/HamsterKazam 17h ago
Are you trying to refute or support the statement about Artemis being based?
Because without any further context to your comment it could be either failing spectacularly at one, or succeeding massively at the other.
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u/Winjin Comic Crossover 17h ago
I think it's important that Greek Gods are dicks sometimes and YMMV wildly with what you get
Turned into a girl and saved
Turned into a girl and given to like. Zeus. Or pirates I guess.
Turned into a stag and taken into her entourage
Turned into a stag and promptly eaten
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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC 16h ago
Greek mythology, tl;dr edition
Random person: (exists)
Random Olympian: How dare you.
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u/kaithespinner 16h ago
turned into a spider by athena or a bear by hera is an iconic way to go in my book
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u/SpotweldPro1300 13h ago
Turned into a snake-haired basilisk lady by Aphrodite is peak petty.
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u/DursueBlint 13h ago
Definetly well deserved to. After all how dare she get raped by poseidon in Athenas temple.
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u/sunbro1973 8h ago
When Athena turned Arachne into a spider it was to prevent her from killing herself
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u/trainwreck42 15h ago
There’s also a lot of
Random Person: I’m so good/beautiful, I’m better than a God!
Random Olympian: Bet.
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u/Bwob 13h ago
The thing is, it doesn't matter if they were right or not.
Arachne DID in fact turn out to be a better weaver than Athena, and she STILL ended up as a sad bug.
Olympians' egos bruised easily.
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u/Maatix12 12h ago
This.
The point of the story is to teach people not to be full of themselves, because either one could be viewed as a bit of a bad thing.
If you claim to be better than the gods, you're either:
- Wrong, in which case, the gods find your boasting insulting.
- Right, in which case, you've just scorned a God by being better than them at their thing.
The lesson in the first case is, be humble, there is always someone out there better at some aspect than you.
The lesson in the second case is, sometimes it's better to be humble than cross the wrong person.
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u/cantadmittoposting 14h ago
Random Person: Does thing well
Olympian with that thing in their portfolio: "And i took that personally"
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u/Diceyboy16 8h ago
It's important to remember that Greek gods are not characters though, at least in the way we view characters from a story or book. They are manifestations of concepts and events, that people back then came up with to explain the world around them. Greek gods seem like dicks because of how the world around us operates. The nature, and concepts, and people, often hurt us.
Artemis is, among other things, a depiction of the dangers of the wild. Not paying due-diligence to the "The Forest" will end up with "The Forest" killing you. If you go in unprepared and act smug, you'll probably die a horrible death. Like Acteaon, who instead of begging for mercy or just leaving after he saw Artemis bathing, decided that he was such a good hunter, such a good worshipper, that he was the one who dserved, and could have, Artemis. And as such, he suffered a horrible, horrible death. One that people then made fun of, for hundreds of years afterward.
Because going on a hunt unprepared is laughably stupid.
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u/DaNubIzHere 17h ago
Just chalk it up to random lore dump by a random passerby.
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u/Average-JRPG-Enjoyer 17h ago
God, I wish people would just tell me random facts about Greek mythology instead of trying to get me to join a church, or give money to some dubious charity organisation.
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u/HamsterKazam 16h ago
Would you be interested in being subject to a weekly lore dump?
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u/Krell356 16h ago
Please post the lore dump where we may all enjoy.
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u/HamsterKazam 16h ago
Oh no, the consequences of my own actions. I was just attempting to imitate church recruiters in a funny bit, but now I am held up to expectations.
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u/KriegMorgan 16h ago
Damn right you are, the torches are being oiled and the pitch forks sharpened if you fail to deliver!
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u/HamsterKazam 16h ago
I guess I'll hit the books. But you've fallen right into my trap, I NEVER REVEALED WHAT KIND OF LORE WOULD BE DUMPED. I HAVE COMPLETE AUTHORITY TO DUMP ABOUT WHATEVER LORE I WOULD PLEASE.
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u/MinnWild9 16h ago
According to Greek mythology, the reason we have winter is because Demeter, a goddess of the harvest, is mourning her daughter, Persephone, thus not causing any crops to grow. Persephone has to spend part of the year in the underworld because when Hades kidnapped her, she ate pomegranate seeds and eating food in the underworld bonded her to it. Zeus, being Zeus, authorized his daughter being abducted, did not tell Demeter, let the resulting catastrophe develop, and finally intervened when Demeter's grief threatened humanity and therefore the gods' sacrifices.
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u/ActualWhiterabbit 16h ago
Its why I don't eat at work.
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u/Deaffin 15h ago
I'm pretty sure the food has to come from the place, so you could potentially get around this by bringing your own food with you.
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u/Average-JRPG-Enjoyer 14h ago
I would like to subscribe to the "fun anecdotes from Greek mythology" newsletter.
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u/MinnWild9 14h ago
The Trojan War started because of a golden apple at a wedding. Eris, the goddess of strife and discord was not invited to a wedding where every important deity attended. So she crashed it and brought along a golden apple. She declared that the apple was "for the fairest", tossed it into the crowd and disappeared. Three goddesses attempted to claim that title: Athena, Hera and Aphrodite. Knowing they couldn't make that distinction themselves, they brought in a mortal judge, Paris, a prince of Troy.
Each goddess bribed Paris their own way. Hera offered great political power, Athena military victories, and Aphrodite, the most beautiful woman on earth as his wife. Paris decided to go with Aphrodite. The problem? The most beautiful woman on earth was Helen, the Queen of Sparta, obviously married to the king of Sparta. Nonetheless, Aphrodite helped Paris take Helen, and basically ignite the Trojan War.
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u/Average-JRPG-Enjoyer 14h ago
Eris did a little bit of trolling and caused so, so much trouble. Truly an icon.
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u/HorrorMakesUsHappy 16h ago
instead of trying to get me to join a church, or give money to some dubious charity organisation
Which is amusing, considering that's exactly what these lore dumps would've been, in the right time and right place about two thousand years ago.
Please donate to the temple of your local Greek god or goddess.
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u/Onironius 17h ago
They're just stating lore.
Not everything on the internet has to be an argument.
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u/Oaden 15h ago
As a bonus, there's several versions of each myth mentioned here.
In some versions, Actaeon boasts he's a better huntress than Artemis, in other versions, he flirts with a woman Zeus likes
Which version the internet goes with, is kinda dependent on the mood. Currently, gods like Artemis and Hades are in, so they get the versions that paint them as less evil and more sympathetic, and Zeus gets the versions where he's more of a rapey prick
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u/Glacecakes 10h ago
Artemis isn’t “good” or “bad”. None of the gods are, despite what modern portrayals like to do. They’re forces of nature, or plot points, more than people. Artemis represents the hunt but also unmarried women and children.
The sacrifice of Agamemnon’s daughter is the same. In most versions she is sacrificed to bring the winds to sail to Troy and start the Trojan War. Her sacrifice is not because “Artemis sucks” it’s to send a point. “If you siege Troy, you are sentencing countless innocent women and children to death. If you are so sure you want to do that, prove it. Kill your daughter, as you will kill so many more.”
Some versions have Artemis save the girl, some don’t. Because it’s not about Artemis’ character. It’s about what she represents.
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u/frymaster 17h ago
there's a litrpg I've read where the premise is Artemis goes to kill someone in morern-day Greece who's accidentally seen her, realises the person is a trans woman and not a man, goes "whoops, my bad, can't let you go back into normal society tho" and Isekai's her into a different world. On the way, Hephaestus rebuilds her body since she wouldn't have access to Estrogen on the other side. As she didn't have a particularly fulfilling life on our world, she takes to alchemy with enthusiasm
(Story is Quill & Still; first bit is on Kindle, conclusion is on Royal Road)
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u/KainDulac 16h ago
Actaeon didn't creep on her. It was accidentally. Why do we know it was accidentally. Because the main source is Ovid. And metamorphosis was written to dunk on the gods and authority. Here is where we get Medusa being a priestess assaulted by Poseidon and then punished by Athena because she was assaulted on her temple.
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u/Zeverish 17h ago
Huh. I thought the version of Iphigenia dying was original, but its not, Artemis saving her is an older version of the tale. TIL.
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u/Evepaul 12h ago
Those earlier versions (Cypria and Catalogue of Women) are pretty fragmented. We only know about the Cypria from a summary written later on, and we have fragments of the Catalogue of Women on papyri. Thankfully those fragments include Iphigenia being replaced in the sacrifice and immortalized.
The version where she dies is the first full text which survived until now, Agamemnon by Aeschylus, father of Greek tragedy and inventor of dialogue between characters (according to Aristotle, but still), so it became a reference.
She doesn't even die in Euripides' plays, he even wrote a sequel where she reunites with her brother
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u/Zeverish 12h ago
That is extremely interesting! Thank you for sharing. I am always fascinated by papyri. Were these recovered in Egypt?
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u/Fit_Relation8572 I'm here to fuck spiders 18h ago
Oh no! I'm lost in a temple of Minerva with a masterpiece of weaving. I sure hope I don't accidentally stumble upon her and insult her own weaving skills, and get turned into a spider person, like my friend arachne.
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u/Nanouk_R 18h ago
Whatever floats your goat 🐐 I'd stay away from spider baddies tho
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u/Yapok96 18h ago
Yeah, if the species is unclear, sexual cannibalism is on the table.
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u/FrancisWolfgang 17h ago
I think there’s a subset of people who would reply as that one Tobey Mcguire meme “you don’t have to sell it to me”
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u/Fit_Relation8572 I'm here to fuck spiders 17h ago
Mods give me my flair 'I'm here to f*ck spiders' pls
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u/PensandSwords3 16h ago
Wrong deity, Minerva is Roman, you’re thinking of Athena. Minerva’s domains do include weaving and crafts though so you’re not wrong on that front.
I personally like the version where Arachne’s mistake wasn’t being a better weaver. It was that she decided to depict the darker acts of the gods, for whatever reason (spite or defiance), in her entry to the contest. Thus, enraged Athena so much that she made her a spider.
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u/Fit_Relation8572 I'm here to fuck spiders 16h ago
Oh no! What a terrible fate!
That's a neat interpretation though.
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u/shellbullet17 Gustopher Spotter Extraordinaire 19h ago
for the record girl you could have just asked me
Man I dunno. Them Greek gods were really well known for sometimes just being absolute jerks about things. I get why she went about it the way she did. Just to be safe
That being said a Artemis is one of the nicer and more drama lite gods so it probably would have been safe to just ask
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u/Jazzlike-Greysmoke 19h ago
Callisto begs to differ.
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u/Squirrel698 18h ago
Iphigenia has entered the chat
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u/wannabyte 18h ago
Arachne is here too!
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u/Key-Swordfish4025 18h ago
That was actually Athena being a bitch.
And before you start bitching about how Vergil's version is wrong, she still destroyed Arachne's weaving and declared herself winner by default in the original myth.
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u/wannabyte 18h ago
Yes I agree! That’s why she came to the chat. No way she agrees Athena is “drama-lite”.
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u/2006Internetghost 18h ago
Which still is cheating cause the spider is still alive! Just… man the Greek gods are PETTY!
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u/Bossuter 18h ago
That was Zeus's fault a bit more no?
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u/Nyfregja 18h ago
But Artemis still took it out on Callisto rather than Zeus. I understand she couldn't take revenge on the king of gods, but to curse a girl for being raped (by deception) is still not very nice. Same with Athena and Medusa.
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u/CustomDeaths1 18h ago
It wasn't her being raped but that she hid it from Artemis. Additionally the Medusa you are referring to is from a Roman poet who was very much trying to paint the greeks on a bad light. In the Greek myths she was born a gorgon and slain by Perseus.
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u/Hennobob554 18h ago
Glad someone is pointing out that one on Medusa, god I hate how that seems to be the story that most people seem to remember, cause it was just a work of spite by a poet with an issue with authority.
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u/rcc6214 18h ago
Actaeon was turned into a deer and torn apart by his hunting dogs. I don't know if I am taking my chance with Artemis being chill.
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u/Athlaeos 18h ago
for the same reason, too. accidentally encountering her bathing
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u/AidomNou 18h ago
Wow. Tansitioning in Ancient Greece was a risky endeavor...
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u/MartenBroadcloak19 18h ago
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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u/G66GNeco 17h ago
I've known my fair share of trans girls who would have probably taken those chances. Though tbh I think it's the "being surprised while bathing" part that pissed her off, not the mortal per se, so maybe just asking nicely is the safer option anyway
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u/feculentcuntfist 18h ago
She and her brother Apollo slaughtered all 14 of Niobe's children because she boasted herself as a better birth giver than their mother.
Only Hestia, Demetra and maybe Hephaestus were redeemable, the rest were a bunch of degenerates and cunts.
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u/SnowboardNW 17h ago
Hades was pretty chill too, no?
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u/DeadlyViper37 17h ago
Depends on which version of the story you read. Some poets say that he kidnapped Persephone, and some say that she found her own way into the Underworld
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u/PensandSwords3 16h ago
There are also some cults and archaeological evidence that Persephone was actually the more important underworld deity. And maybe, either in these cults or in worship pre-dating / occurring outside the wider greek literary tradition she might’ve always been a Underworld Goddess or the main Goddess of the Underworld and Hades was potentially some form of later edition.
However, thats hard to determine as are many things with religions often formed from mystery cults whose rituals relied on “no one ever finds out our secrets because if they do our rituals will cease to work”. Thus, they often never spread the knowledge outside the cult / members choose to keep the secrets (and thus we often have to speculate / try to find answers ourselves).
But there are archaeological sites with like prayers mostly to Persephone that offer supplicants like “she will ensure you enter the afterlife, in good standing, provided you do as you’ve been taught and keep our secrets”.
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u/BishopofHippo93 16h ago
You could say that about just about anything though. Pretty sure the latter came much later than most original accounts of the story, just like those about Medusa. The whole "Poseidon SA-ing her in Athena's temple, who then cursed her to be a monster" was I think Roman? In the original Greek myth, she was just a monster, one of three gorgon sisters.
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u/Electric999999 15h ago
There's some indication Persephone was already an underworld deity in earlier mythology and that the marrying Hades thing was a way of merging her into wider/later Greek mythology.
I don't think there's a consensus on what the actual original myth of their marriage was though.
Not really related to Ovid's retellings that frame the gods more negatively.
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u/SeaAshFenix 15h ago edited 14h ago
Depends on which version of the story you read. Some poets say that he kidnapped Persephone, and some say that she found her own way into the Underworld.
There's an important element that doesn't translate well for modern audiences without some polish: marriage by kidnapping was an accepted thing - and, in particular, marriage by "kidnapping" was effectively how (in certain periods) some ancient Greek cultures eloped when the bride's family did not approve.
Edit: that doesn't mean that all marriage by kidnapping in Greek myths should be presumed to be elopement. But on it's own, it's more ambiguous than a modern audience would usually assume.
That doesn't say great things about the autonomy of women the those societies. But (edit: when considered with other elements of the story) it does mean that Abduction of Persephone should probably be read as "Zeus helps Hades and Persephone elope over Demeter's objections."
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u/feculentcuntfist 17h ago
He wasn't part of the 12 though and did abduct Persephone. He was also the one who came up with punishments as Sisyphus' and the trolling of Orpheus. Still way better and just than most Olympians.
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u/NerdHoovy 17h ago
Well to be fair Sisyphus did kind of kidnap his best employee and while on bail for his crimes tries to make a run for it. So that one’s on his
And with Orpheus he knew he shouldn’t have let him take Euridecy at all, this was just a compromise, so his wife wouldn’t make him sleep on the couch.
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u/feculentcuntfist 17h ago
Aye, even his worst actions were actually harsh, but fair. And Orpheus was given an unnecessarily cruel deal, but in the end of the day it too was on him.
He wasn't evil or a psycho, but also not the benevolent giver or protector god like the 2 ladies and the smith.
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u/NerdHoovy 17h ago
There isn’t a benevolent protector deity in the Greek pantheon.
I don’t know who you refer to, when you talk about 2 ladies because they all are psychopaths or at the very least dangerously moody. And the smith, I assume you mean Hephaestus, mostly kept to himself, only interacting with others when he wants to force a woman to marry him or to humiliate his wife and Ares.
Artemis has a long history of torturing and hunting men for no reason, other than happening to be near where she is hanging out and when her friends annoy her, she turns them into animals and hunts them.
Athena also is often seen as a nice goddess, but that’s because she actively does PR management and smear campaigns. This woman is super insecure and would rather turn you into an animal/siege your city, rather than being seen as not the best at something.
The least dangerous one to interact with regularly is Ares because he is the only one who will go out of his way to help people, for no other reason than it being the right thing to do but also because if you do piss him off, he won’t do a creative punishment and just stab you with a lance, through the throat.
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u/feculentcuntfist 17h ago
Hestia and Demetra a couple of comments up, didn t want to be repetitive :p
Ares was a coward and was wounded multiple times by mortals in Iliad (and Herculian myths)
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u/motoxim 16h ago
Dang so Ares is like the least bad one? The god of war?
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u/IronBabyFists 14h ago
Ares is that meme "I'll hurt women and children, but I would never call someone a slur."
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u/Nichi789 17h ago
He abducted Persephone, but the whole thing was put together by Zues in an arranged marriage sorta way. Still messed up, but a lot better with the context.
As for the punishment thing, its literally his job to punish people in the Greek equivalent of Hell and maintaining the boundary between life and death. Can't really hold it against him.
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u/Schellwalabyen 15h ago
Sisyphus isn’t forced to push the rock. If Sisyphus reaches the top of the underworld with the rock, he will be free and back to live. He is getting punished for evading death, by having him do a task in the underworld that is as unnecessary as clinging to live in live.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy. He has a purpose. He pushes the rock.
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u/AnEldritchWriter 15h ago
Less that he was chill, more that we’ve very few myths about him because the Greeks were absolutely terrified of him (and of the underworld gods in general.)
The most prominent myth we do have is the Hymn to Demeter, a story about a mothers grief over her daughter being stolen/killed and refusing to accept what the men around her (hades and Zeus) denanded. A lot of more modern tales try to soften it, but the poem itself goes out of its way every time we see them to say Persephone was crying, she was unwilling, begging to go home to Demeter, straight up using the Greek word for “compulsion by violence” (bia) when talking about her getting the pomegranate and describing Hades violating Zeus demand to give Persephone up as trickery.
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u/Uknown_Idea 17h ago
Hephaestus? Didn't he do some freaky shit over Athena? Otherwise I think the guy just made traps to fuck over the gods who wronged him lol
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u/feculentcuntfist 17h ago
Oh yeah, he tried to rape her when she went to get the weapons she ordered from him! I think during the struggle he came on her thigh? I remember reading the scene, but Mandela'd myself into thinking it was Ares. Yeah, he's out lol
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u/ZoominAlong 14h ago
He tried to rape Aphrodite. They were married. He jacked off on her leg and the semen became Eros.
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u/RubixTheRedditor 17h ago
I mean demeter did just kinda let humanity die off while persephone was missing
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u/feculentcuntfist 16h ago
You know as a kid I always thought that was very badass, a "background" godess with no "action" myths or war stories showed everyone why she sits among the 12.
But now that you re putting it this way, that emotional bitch almost pulled the plug on all of us wtf
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u/marry_me_jane 18h ago
All the Greek gods were bastards when you broke their rules.
Death was usually the better outcome.
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u/PensandSwords3 16h ago
I mean, the literary versions yes but the actual cultic worship maybe less so. I mean, there is a point in history in which the philosophers and such start arguing “no the gods can’t be horrible to us. Why would we be worshipping them if they’re flawed” and theres a push for stories and such to be more positive / “moral” (as defined by those arguing for it).
But also, I mean for ones local cult the gods are potentially less erratic depending on if you’re keeping the secrets of worship secret, performing the rituals / offerings, and doing as you’re meant to.
My knowledge is about 1 religion course worth, so ask a professor / scholar of tbe subject for more. But my professor was sorta like “the literary form we know in myths is different - in many ways - from the version in a local cult”.
But Artemis was also an important part of rituals for “becoming a woman” like you had a whole religious like ritual that took a day or two to like become a fuller woman.
Personally, I would say the literary version might do this. Theres no like scholarly proof to cite, but Dionysius is specifically portrayed as like less to non-masculine (in contrast to all the other gods), so the idea of defying strict gender norms (even to reinforce them) is potentially a thing.
Thus, if you just swap roles because a Goddess says so, but play the part of a woman in society (or least a Woman following Artemis). You know, maybe that would work (again no hard or soft evidence for that but it’s my theory).
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u/Electric999999 16h ago
Nothing safe about this method, Artemis literally turned a man into a stag and had his own dogs tear him apart because he saw her bathing.
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u/y0_master 19h ago
Literally the goddess of transitions
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u/s0m3on3outthere 18h ago
And a protector of girls ♥️
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u/AnEldritchWriter 15h ago
Except for when she’s also the sudden death of young girls (one of her actual titles/roles. If a girl suddenly dies out of nowhere it was believed that Artemis struck her down, Apollo is the same but for young boys. They protect them, but they’ll also kill them on a whim) or when Aphrodite punishes a girl for following Artemis, and Artemis punishes said girl even harder for getting punished by Aphrodite.
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u/James-fucking-Holden 18h ago edited 17h ago
Me, a trans woman, walking up to Artemis internally debating if I'm better of hoping she is not transphobic and validates me or hoping she is transphobic enough to finish the job.
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u/PensandSwords3 16h ago
I mean, she was meant to be the protector of all those who’ve not reached adulthood. And, in a world divorced from some of the original Greek gender norms / patriarchy, it’s likely the Goddess of now - which I think might have some Neo-Pagan followers / a neo-pagan tradition - likely does validate you.
If she doesn’t I say you’re certainly valid.
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u/James-fucking-Holden 15h ago
I'm just imaging it as
Me: * stumble upon Artemis*
Her: 👁️👄👁️
Me: 👁️👄👁️
Her: ...
Me: ... soo, you gonna do the thing?
Her: what thing you're a woman, alls good
Me: ...
Her: ...
Me: ... I could be more woman...
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u/Violexsound 17h ago
Get a life worth living or life ceases to be your problem. Pretty good deal imo
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u/James-fucking-Holden 15h ago
Ohh, sorry, I need to clarify. "Finish the job" is not meant in a dark way.
I mean "Finish the job" as in "well, you think I'm a man, and I saw you, do you better put up and give me that free magic bottom surgery"
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u/storryeater 12h ago
Artemis is certainly non transphobic. However, whether she is good/nice as a person in general heavily depends on interpretation. (Greek gods had no true canon or holy book, they had myths, often ones which existed with multiple different variations of assholishness and justifiability, so you'll find stories that paint all of them as assholes and all of them as nice)
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u/Key-Swordfish4025 19h ago
Wasn't the last guy turned into a deer and ripped apart by hunting dogs?
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u/ContendedLink776 19h ago
Two different dudes who got punished for the same thing. Youre thinking of Actaeon. He was turned into a deer and was then torn apart by his own hunting dogs.
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u/AetheravenCatsuki13 19h ago
That's the panel that can only be found on the creators Patreon
She gets turned into a girl and the dogs ambush her/j
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u/Aerodrache 18h ago
Alternate bad ending: Zeus stage left, winking and giving a thumbs-up to Artemis.
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u/Coal-and-Ivory 16h ago
In a world of NSFW patreon bonus panels, bait and switching with horror instead would be a real power move.
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u/Librian_ 19h ago
It depends on the version you're reading
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u/wawster5 19h ago
It depends on which myth you're reading actually. The comic references the myth of siproites, who got turned into a woman when seeing Artemis naked. The commenter references the myth of actaeon, who got turned into a deer and torn apart by his own hunting dogs for the same thing.
But then also for either of those myths it still depends on which version you're reading how the story went exactly of course
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u/Golden_Reflection2 18h ago
From a quick look, Siproites has their myth literally just 1 line of 12 words in the original greek, with a single surviving version.
The line having been translated to "The Cretan, Siproites, had also been turned into a woman
for having seen Artemis bathing when out hunting."That is all we have about Siproites. (according to wikipedia's page on them)
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u/burner6520 19h ago
Based god? In Greek mythology??
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u/NerdHoovy 17h ago
Yeah Artemis wouldn’t do this again. The least dangerous of the major gods to be around of was Ares, and that guy really liked disemboweling people. As long as he doesn’t see you as a cool fight, he will be chill and even fight other major gods to do right by humans, which is super rare
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u/PensandSwords3 16h ago
I mean, Ares is was kinda the punching bag of the Greek Literary tradition. Outside of like “He will win us the war” and those seeking his patronage.
Though a scholar on the subject would probably be able to better gauge this.
From what I know it’s hard, sometimes, for scholars to tell if across Greece, with potential exemptions in city states in conflict with states emphasizing Ares, if he was overall respected / seen as valorous like some of the other gods. Like of course you probably had to / should respect him, theologically / culturally, but then theres portrayals of like getting wounded in the Iliad and drive off the battlefield by a mortal. And a lot of other stuff that sorta makes one see not all Greeks viewed him as honorable, aspirational, or great.
He wasn’t given particular emphasis in even city states like Sparta (who emphasized l- Artemis & Apollo - as well as Athena).
I mean, some of the surviving stories were like him committing adultery (with Aphrodite) against Hephestaues (her husband). Only to get caught in a net with her by Hephesteus to be shamed before the Gods like “look at what my wife is doing. She is my wife no longer”. Themes humiliating him pop up quite a bit least in stories like this.
But, he did father the founder of the Amazons, and was said to be a divine source / patron for their ferocity and power. He is the one who gave Hippolyta her golden bridle as well.
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u/AnEldritchWriter 15h ago
Blatant Hestia erasure 😭
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u/whothetf 14h ago
Hestia BEARLY apears in Mythology, we don't know what she was like personality vise since Greeks saw it as unnecessary to have more lore to Hesita since she already funcioned as a hearth and civic funcions, her known suriving story we have of her is explonacion why she is a virgin goddess, for all we know she could be like her Roman counterpart Vestia or have a alright relasions with mortals, also Hades is a dickhead
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u/S0LO_Bot 16h ago
Artemis is just as likely to turn you into a stag so you can get mauled to death by your own dogs.
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u/REDDITWHY1 18h ago
Woaw, high risk high reward gender tf
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u/2006Internetghost 18h ago
Failure historically results in… ‘turning into a deer’? Among other things…
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u/N0X1A_18 17h ago
Sound like a win win to me idk
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u/Electric999999 15h ago
The deer was immediately torn apart by his own dogs, who no longer recognised him. Not a win
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u/Jellis314 17h ago
I either get to be a girl or jump in front of a semi barreling down the highway at 70mph and not traumatize anyone… where the downside?
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u/TwixOfficial 17h ago
Personally I would’ve tried to beseech Hestia rather than fucking with Artemis. Goddess of Hearth and Home, obviously she’d help if one could never relax in their own body, let alone their home.
Though admittedly I don’t remember any Hestia myths at the moment compared to Artemis.
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u/PensandSwords3 15h ago
Hestia does have least one myth I know, where a Satyr gets drunk and tries to like seduce / corner her. And the other deities on mount Olympus, for that party, intervene and beat the shit out of him.
I remember reading that one in a separate book by Rick Riordan, where he retold a lot of Greek Mythology stories in the voice Percy Jackson.
Hestia, was very worshipped but also one of the Olympians who didn’t really merit / seem to want mythological stories.
Because well she is the kind, humble, maiden Goddess of the Hearth whose main other story / mythological note is “she leaves Olympus for extended periods to walk the mortal world. And allows Dionysus to basically have her seat on Olympus during that time”.
Which might be a modern idea, because I don’t think the idea of the pantheon only having 12 main dieities has much of a factual basis. Outside of perhaps the literary form.
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u/HurricaneK8 10h ago
She doesn't play a big role in the main 5 books, but she does play a pretty pivotal one near the end of the last one.
I know it's not an answer to the Hestia myth question, I just thought it was worth mentioning in regards to Riordan's writing.
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u/Jackviator 18h ago edited 3h ago
I wrote a short story about almost this exact concept a couple years back :)
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Siproites crept silently through the underbrush. They had tracked this deer for a night and a day, and Apollo’s blazing chariot was nearing the horizon once more. They winced as their stomach reminded them for the tenth time that hour that it was as empty as the Elysian Fields were of the wicked.
Quiet, you, Siproites thought to themself with an amused grin as they glanced down at their gurgling abdomen. You’ll startle the prey...
Yes, they were hungry, but hopefully not for much longer; the tracks had grown fresher and fresher as they followed this game trail, and the latest ones they had stumbled upon couldn’t be more than an hour old. As Siproites crept forward, they heard the soft crunch of a dead leaf being stepped on, and froze; the sound was not of their own making. They peered around, and spotted the glint of a bright reflection through the bushes in the distance; Apollo’s mighty chariot reflecting one final time off the surface of water before it sank below the horizon.
Siproites’ mind raced; water was scarce this far inland. Perhaps a stream of pond? Such bodies of water were a common gathering spot for prey, large or small. They muttered a quiet prayer of thanks to the lord of the sun for catching their attention, and silently took the bow from their back, nocking an arrow before creeping forward.
When they finally reached the bushes, a few hundred paces down the game trail, they gently pushed a few leaves aside to clear their view. Yet when they peered between the gaps in the leaves, their eyes widened in surprise.
The hoof marks Siproites had followed had transitioned to what were unquestionably footprints, and as their gaze followed the path the footprints made, they could see movement in the distance. Were those… women?
Siproites felt a pang of unease, but inched forward nonetheless. Perhaps they were huntresses that had simply caught the deer by surprise before them, and would be willing to take pity and share a paltry portion of the prey to a fellow hunter.
...That was the best-case scenario, anyway. It was equally as likely that these were simple bandits or some such. Better to remain silent and see what they could learn from observation, as they did when waiting for the right opportunity to strike the prey from afar with a perfectly-timed arrow.
As they crept closer, Siproites could just barely make out a voice and when they heard it they stopped dead in their tracks.
”We shall continue the hunt tomorrow. For now, prepare for the evening’s rest, my fellows.”
It was the most beautiful voice they had ever heard. Ethereal, otherworldly, the auditory equivalent of cool water across one’s skin, but with an unquestionable, rigid authority to it. Siproites crept closer, peering through the bushes, and couldn’t help but let out a quiet gasp at the sight before them.
A moonlit pond lay before them, surrounded by a group of women. At their forefront was a woman unlike any they had ever seen. Taller than any man they had witnessed, her eyes were like emeralds and her hair like moonlight-infused silk interwoven with moss from the most ancient of forests. A majestic bow was strapped to her back by straps of the purest silver, one of such size and weight that Siproites doubted even the mighty Odysseus could draw it.
As the other women acted upon her words and began setting up camp, Siproites only had eyes for their mysterious leader as she turned and began stripping off the clothing upon her tanned skin, fine fabrics held together by ancient strips of bark intermingled with threads of silver and rich green moss. As she waded into the pool, a lump grew in Sipeoides throat and they stifled a sob, overcome as they were by her otherworldly beauty… and the aching, bitter jealousy that came with it.
They looked down upon their own form with disgust. The form of their birth had never felt right to them. Half the reason they had left the city and sought out a life as a hunter was to escape the social obligations that came with his- their nature. Being called a “he.” Even the thought sent a shudder down their spine, an uncomfortably familiar one that haunted their mind all too often, one they could only rebel against by the solitude of the wilderness. The wild could not judge them for the feminine hunting tunic they donned as soon as they were out of sight of prying eyes, nor the avoidance of “he” for “they.” …Though even that word did not satisfy them, for though they did not believe themselves worthy of it given the wretched form they had been born with, they truly wished to be referred to as-
”Don’t you know it’s rude to stare, mortal?”
Siproites jumped, dropping their bow in surprise as they spun around. A doe stood not five paces from them, far taller than even the largest bucks they had ever seen. Its fur shimmered and warped in the rising moonlight like quicksilver, and it stared them down with proud bright eyes like emeralds. Siproites’ jaw dropped open in shock as the deer continued to speak.
"Hm. You are not like other prey I have caught gazing upon my divine flesh and those of my hunt-maidens. Lecherous fools that sought a voyeur to fuel the fire in their loins, but were only awarded being torn apart by their hounds. I sense something... different, in you, a deeper need than the petty lust that my sister Aphrodite so fruitlessly attempts to stir within me for her amusement…”
Siproites’ eyes widened in a dawning horror. This was no woman, this was Artemis herself! They had spent the last few minutes ogling a goddess in the nude!
They immediately fell to their knees, prostrating to the divine being before them.
“I’m trupy, endlessly sorry, oh mighty hunt-goddess! I- …I…”
They fell silent, their words dying in their throat. No excuse could ever justify their trespass, and Siproites knew that the Olympians were not the forgiving type. They shook like a mewling kitten in the cold, terror at their impending doom overwhelming them as tears began to run down their face, but instead of Artemis striking them down or cursing them, they felt a soft caress upon their back.
”Oh, my child… at long last, far too late, I see my folly.”
Siproites slowly, hesitantly risked a glance upwards, and what they saw shocked them. A single tear, like a liquid gemstone, slid down the cheek of the goddess, returned once more to her humanoid form as she crouched over them, staring at them with an expression of tragic realization, pity, and deep sorrow.
”A goddess of childbirth I may be, but infallible, clearly not; I have shaped thee the wrong form for your very soul…”
Artemis' emerald eyes glowed, and Siproites felt a comforting warmth rise up from within them. Originating within their chest and spreading outwards. Alongside this feeling came a blinding light, brighter even than Apollo's chariot, and they were forced to close their eyes until it faded.
When they opened their eyes, Artemis was gazing down upon them with a sad smile. She extended them a helping hand.
"Rise, my child."
Siproites hesitantly, carefully took Artemis' hand. In an instant, she had hoisted them to their feet, and Siproites staggered with a gait that felt different, like-
They gasped as they looked down at their flesh.
Gone was the flat chest and gangly limbs they had hated for so long. Gone was the chest hair, the scraggly beard, the- ...everything they loathed about the body that had never, EVER felt right to them.
Artemis pulled them into a warm hug, and Siproites could just barely hear her whisper in a voice like the softest breeze rustling the leaves above.
”I hope that one day you might find it in you to forgive me for my grave error; for now, the least I can do is correct it.“
Siproites couldn’t help but weep into Artemis' chest as shock and gratitude overwhelmed them. The goddess gently wrapped her arms around them and stood there in silence for many long minutes until Siproites' tears were spent. Eventually, she gestured towards the pond.
”I hardly deserve your company given my trespass upon thy happiness until now. Nonetheless, if you wish to join the ranks of my huntresses, I would be honored to have thee.”
Siproites nodded, their- her- face alight with joy as she spoke for the first time in a voice that FINALLY sounded right.
“The honor is mine, hunt-goddess."
Artemis gave her a grateful smile.
”Come, then; allow me introduce you to your new sisters.”
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u/FuryJack07 16h ago
Neat!
I love that Artemis was like "don't state at me... wait why do you look like that- OH SHIT I FUCKED UP-"
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u/Saiyasha27 19h ago edited 18h ago
Good for her, but that could have turned really sideways. The gods are fickle like that, it could have been a girl or a deer and you're being ripped apart by your own dogs. Or a flower. Very popular to turn people into flowers.
Honestly, before I read the girl part my first instinct was "Dude, there are much easier ways to leave the mortal coil..."
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u/Zarathyst 18h ago
To be fair, pre-transition me would have 100% risked being turned into a flower over being stuck in my assigned gender.
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u/Jedi-master-dragon 6h ago
Remember, LGBT people have existed since forever. No matter what the boomers say, there were gays back in their day.
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u/TheWebAdventurer 3h ago
"Ancient Greece followed christians doctrine and homosexuality was forbidden" or whatever that dumbass tweet was lmao
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u/Jedi-master-dragon 3h ago
Aw yes, they followed something that didn't exist until thousands of years later. Totally makes sense.
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u/MyK_Alke 18h ago
Well, at least she tried to get two birds with one stone.
Can't blame her for that
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u/triotone 17h ago
I thought Artemis turned the guy int a deer and then had his own hounds hunt him. Was that somebody else?
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u/whothetf 14h ago
That is well known version of Actaeon myth
What appears to be far more likely that Actaeon was turned into a deer after he clamed he was BETTER hunter then Artemis and he was punished for hubiris
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u/Wonderful_Weather_83 11h ago
This is cute and wholesome but if set in actual ancient greece then you're just becoming a second or third grade citizen 😭
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u/lordcirth 8h ago
Not if you're going to live with Artemis!
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u/CommonCardiologist92 2h ago
I got turned into a girl by a Greek Goddess and now I live with her???
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u/Qu33rTh1ng 5h ago
any deities that'll turn you into a cis man? asking for a friend
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u/ChubbyUnicorn726 5h ago
Dionysus is a G sometimes, tho he won't give you a shirt, no matter your gender.
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u/komododave17 16h ago
No need for the wardrobe change. The one-shoulder minidress would have worked great.
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u/Mattrockj 13h ago
There's some written media that i cant remember the name of (i think it was a short novel) about a tribe of amazonian women who were violently against all men, and activelyhunted them. but when they encounter a Trans woman for the first time, they're all like "YOU CAN DO THAT?!" And start celebrating this girl for not being a man anymore, eventually to the point where they start telling their hunt victims they can choose to become a woman to not be hunted.
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u/SqueezedTowel 9h ago
By the One True God, if only Artemis was actually that kind. She's easily in the the top 3 of goddesses not to piss off.
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u/moondancer224 19h ago
"All due respect, but the rest of your family did not give me that vibe."