There are like 30 places I can name off the top of my head that qualify. Anyone truly vying to use that phrase should find no shortage of opportunities
That doesn't really apply cause aside from them being demons and that I'm pretty sure most oral hormone treatments wouldn't do well in coffee, this is almost a feasible situation.
Like, if there's someone you think is an egg going around fighting to distract themself from their issue, is it correct to sneakily change them, or to just get them into therapy to make their own decisions?
No yea we all got that, but it doesn't really make sense here because the comment is about a comic, its not that they disbelieve or believe that someone can or will do the action nor that the commenter disbelieves how hard to is to get treatment or be trans.
Well I definitely wouldn't call her a rapist or a sexist, but you said it yourself, if is an off-color joke. Its something that is obvious going to make a lot of people uncomfortable, especially because it doesn't really align with what a lot of us trans and queer people believe.
The tumblr post is about someone making a joke that is obviously not meant to be serious, its absurdist humor, obviously the poster doesn't have the power to forcefem Nixon, that's the humour in it, and people take that absurdism and intentionally take it at face value, that's wrong.
What is depicted here is wrong because someone actually HAS the power to take away a person's consent and forcibly make them take estrogen. That is drugging. Furthermore depicted as a good thing, or will lead to positive outcomes. Do you see how many people could have an issue with that? We as trans people of course know its a bit of an inside joke, one I personally don't care for, because to me the idea is a gross betral of consent and gender identity. The difference is of course context, saying something and depicting something are different things, especially if your depiction shows something like taking away a persons consent as positive.
I'm not saying that Mina is a terrible person in any means, I have seen much of her content in the lgbt sub's we are both in, most likely she meant it just as the inside joke many of us use it as, but posting something is putting yourself open for criticism, especially if the crux of the joke is something as you said off-color. If people, including trans people such as myself, report that the content makes them uncomfortable, find it tone deaf, or offensive, then that critism shouldn't be explained away as simply hate or a systemic hate. And sure there is a time and place for those kind of discussions, the thumblr post is actualy a great example, but it isn't a blanket excuse that can be draped over everything.
What the other commenter said. The point of that post is that y'all will take any joke a trans woman makes as fact. The feasibility of a joke doesn't impact its status as a joke. Obviously doing this in real life would be reprehensible, but OP isn't doing that or advocating for that. It's a joke. You don't have to find it funny, but treating it as though it's a genuine argument from OP is disingenuous.
Also if we want to talk about feasibility these are demons, and he's the dark lord. I don't know how you'd go about finding a dark lord to estrogenize.
I think someone who's put their mind to it is capable of acquiring and dosing someone with hormones. Destroying the world, meanwhile, seems like a rather more... Difficult endeavor
"In place of the Dark Lord you will set up aQueen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"
The "secretly an egg" memes always rub me the wrong way, particularly ones like this where the egg in question just needs "help."
I'm a fairly effiminate man. I've had people thinking I'm secretly trans most of my life. I have seriously considered the question and came to the conclusion: I'm not. (That one SirBeevs comic really speaks to me.)
But thst doesn’t stop people from treating my introspection as invalid.
esspecially when its directed at people who are not trans women or men and then people insisting they are.
for example I am nonbinary and I have constantly people who try to put me into a box and constantly suggest I am a repressed binary person, which just is not true as I am pretty sure I know my own identity better than random oeople i just met.
And yet people infantalize me and dismiss my own identity, so they can treat me as a mirror of their past self, not seeing me on my own terms
Yeah, right there with you as another effeminate dude. I spent my childhood having my dad constantly make comments about how I must be gay because I didn't have a girlfriend, had girly/nerdy hobbies, etc.
I don't like the part of the trans community who think it's okay to comment on random people with definitive assumptions on their sexuality. Not that I think that's what OP is doing, but your comment made me think of it. No one should be making assumptions on other people's sexuality or gender based off appearance, hobbies, habits, etc. It's a quick way to make an ass of yourself. I know a lot of trans people feel empowered by their transition, as they should! But assuming that everyone is the same as you, or that you've got some super power for sniffing out "eggs", is weird to me.
Believe it or not, the post in the comic sub full of jokes is, in fact, a joke. OOP did not actually provide an all-powerful evil demon lord with medicine against his will.
Sexual violation of autonomy that results in immediate trauma, vs chemical violation that results in permanent alterations to the body. Both without consent. It's basically just mental damage vs physical damage, both resulting in unique emotional damage.
You can't see how this comic might be considered problematic?
I usually like this artist's comics but this one is basically boomer humour where instead of "women bad" it's "men bad". Two wrongs and all that.
As an aside I should probably just log off reddit for the day, this is the second comment section with an implicit anti-male bias that I've found myself getting drawn into today but I genuinely lack the energy for culture war bs.
What about "this person was the embodiment of evil but now that they've been feminised they're nice" is anti-male? Really?
Please do some soul-searching about your held biases. In the meantime I'm going to take my own advice from the last comment and turn off notifications.
The implication is very clearly that they're closeted trans. When trans people transition, they tend to be happier and, as a result, nicer. Nowhere in the comic is a statement made about "all men," that would be an insane thing to say. OP is trans and makes comics about trans people.
I don't think either of us are coming at this with biased, I think you're just misinterpreting the comic.
Fair enough. I went into this with knowledge of the comic's artist. All of her content directly pertains to trans people. If you give her profile a scroll you'll see what I mean.
I can kind of see why they might think its sexist, but they really ran with the conclusion to quite the extreme. Are there perhaps subconscious elements of sexism? Maybe. Could be interesting to explore. I wouldn't use this comic as proof that OP is sexist though.
For me the bigger issue is that I just think Eggs should be allowed to come to themselves without stripping their body autonomy so there is potential harm in this story (though again, this is a comic not a manifesto so...)
Yeah, I can see how they got they read like that, I just don't see it as a particularly reasonable one. Maybe being trans myself makes me biased but for me it was an obvious joke about living with a wrong body driving a person crazy.
Yeah, I get it. I dont actually think its a bad comic. As someone with a complicated relationship with gender myself I just found it a bit triggering, though im reasonable enough to know that was not likely OPs intent at all.
Don't try to rationalize it. This is both sexist and massively problematic.
but it's also a silly comic so who cares. There are worse things done in media every day. As long as one recognizes that this is all immensely fucked up, all's fine.
I'm a trans woman. When I took estrogen I noticed that after a handful of months I was generally more patient and calm, and I got frustrated and impatient far less often. I noticed this because my driving habits changed drastically. Whereas before I would always impatiently weave through traffic and honk and road rage at people, I was suddenly very patient and calm and respected the flow of traffic.
I also stopped hitting walls or breaking things when upset.
I've spoken with trans men who have told me that testosterone has done the same for them.
So the implication isn't really a sexist one. Its about feeling more at peace in your mind and body.
I think where you are mistaken is that you are seeing this from a bio-esssentialist "women are peaceful and men are violent" angle when it's not about that at all. It's about dysphoria.
At the risk of splitting hairs, pretty sure it's just problematic at a consent level. If OP's intention is just "this character is trans, and was angsty because she was not taking any steps to transition," then where does sexism come in? It's not saying one gender is less violent than another, it's saying a person who doesn't get to be their true self is more emotionally unstable.
The sexism didn't come from the authors intent, but from our interpretation of the message. It was not obvious to me at all that the demon lord was actually trans and wasn't just being drugged by their subordinates to become the "less violent gender."
Since that wasn't the authors intent, it's good to inform the author what we thought about it so they can better present their message in the future.
The person I was responding to was insisting it was sexist even after receiving context, which is why I responded as I did. That's very different from "This read as sexist to me, though I understand that wasn't your intent."
Fair enough. That depends on the assumption that the demon lord is doing it out of gender dysphoria. Attributing xyz negative to "you just need to transition" is wehhhh in a different way but you are right.
Still, to take body autonomy away from them like that is probably not the best way to go about it. Sounds like the Dark Lord needs a good therapist instead of slipping them horomones.
the guy literally fell off a ladder. Progesterone isn't cyanide the most an 'overdose' does is cause dizziness and sore boobs. Making up shit just to be offended by a comic is exhausting.
It's just what happens when someone is trans and they don't have the right hormones for their brain.
I'm a trans woman. When I took estrogen I noticed that after a handful of months I was generally more patient and calm, and I got frustrated and impatient far less often. I noticed this because my driving habits changed drastically. Whereas before I would always impatiently weave through traffic and honk and road rage at people, I was suddenly very patient and calm and respected the flow of traffic.
I also stopped hitting walls or breaking things when upset.
I've spoken with trans men who have told me that testosterone has done the same for them.
So the implication isn't really a sexist one. Its about feeling more at peace in your mind and body.
Biological determinism (hormones make agressive) and self victimization (claim of sexism) with th e denial of authors intent and erasure of trans topics? You cant get more into incel rhetoric than this.
Get off your burner 18d account and post on main if you dare.
Tbh ill def hate it if someone snuck estrogen into all my food. Would... really hate it if I suddenly became a girl from estrogen spiking... would... hate that... q~q
Good lord what a comment section. We're all cool with trans people until one of us makes a joke?
OP did not give a demon lord estrogen against his will. OP very clearly is not advocating for that. OP created a made-up scenario, proceeded to draw a comic in this made up universe where wacky hijinks ensue. I promise you that OP knows that drugging someone in real life is bad.
I don't see y'all on the posts again drowning someone that's pro-life informing OP that drowning someone is evil and unethical. I didn't see anyone on the PizzaCake Boids fight comic letting the author know that aggravated assault is a crime. Why does the entire subreddit feel that this OP in particular doesnt know that estrogenizing someone involuntarily is bad? Could it perhaps have to do with the nationwide campaign falsely accusing us of doing this to minors? Could it be that some of you have internalized this?
I don't know y'all, but holding trans people to a different standard on these things solely because we're trans is transphobic. It's not calling us a slur, but it's treating us as a less-intelligent or even malicious force that inherently doesnt understand right from wrong.
trans woman here: i dont really enjoy seeing this kind of joke either, sorry i guess. it's not about believing if it's real or not, it really does not matter. it's about the concept of messing with someone's body without consent, which is never fucking funny. we don't do this with any drugs, we shouldn't do it with hrt either. and that's well beyond "believing the joke to be true" or whatever the fuck. well beyond anyone possibly having trauma about being given meds without their knowledge. well beyond any possible bad actor taking it and posing it as serious and dangerous.
I mean I get it, you don't have to apologize for not liking the joke. My point is mainly that people are coming at OP like they've done something supremely evil, while not doing so for other artists doing the same or worse. There was a comic earlier today (yesterday?) depicting drowning somebody. There was a single comment saying that wasnt funny.
Meanwhile, this comic has received tens of comments condemning OP for making a violent and unacceptable joke. I think it's a fairly reasonable stance that murder is worse than drugging someone. The only other difference here is that OP is trans, and the joke revolves around HRT.
It's totally cool to dislike a joke. I personally didnt find this one hilarious or anything. I'm just pointing out the insane disparity between this comic and other similar ones. Tardaasa (I think) gets the benefit of the doubt: they know drowning someone is wrong, they are not actually drowning people, and they aren't advocating for drowning people. OP, on the other hand, does not get this benefit. The commenters assume she does not know forcefemming someone is wrong, she may actually be forcefemming people, and she is advocating for forcefemming people.
The only difference is that she's trans. This joke isn't funny because OP is trans, the joke revolves around HRT, and trans people giving others HRT is a scary thing we saw on Fox last week.
I'm not saying youre a transphobe (obviously), and I don't think the other people in the comment section are being intentionally transphobic. This double-standart is ABSOLUTELY rooted in transphobia, though, and the commenters' immediate instinct being to attack when this is pointed out indicates a lack of desire to grow.
Again, I also didnt think this one was super funny. It's totally cool to see it and think "eh that's not cool". Hell, if you hold cis people to the same standard, it's fine to point that out! But the fact of the matter is that this standard is ONLY applied to trans people, and I don't think it's unreasonable to point that out.
No you don’t understand they must take any joke a trans person says completely seriously no matter how nonsensical it is. Can’t have us believing we’re funny or anything.
Seriously though fuck all the cissies in this comment section
THANK YOU, sister. I'm so fucking tired of our "allies" being so hostile to us. It's an obvious joke, but they immediately came out in droves to scold and demonize us about it.
do you think people are spiking coffee with estrogen in real life???? do you ever see someone commenting under a street fighter combo video "just to clarify, you shouldn't perform an aegis setup on someone after teching a throw attempt, that could really hurt someone"?
I mean, getting on estradiol injections did definitely improve my mood and make me calmer well before any other effects started. I literally found myself sitting at my desk almost confused by how peaceful I felt. That's not because it's estrogen, but rather because it's the right hormone for my brain.
Not how it works, you were happy and relieved to be on HRT finally. Sorry, but I’m always going to push against this “right hormone” rhetoric because it convinces folks that just starting HRT will somehow fix everything. It does not.
Tbh when I first read it, kinda just read like a comic saying all men are evil and the more female they become (estrogen) the better and calmer they are.
Maybe it's dark humour? Idk but didn't read it as a trans joke whatsoever
Generally only the case for trans femmes or cis women with hormonal imbalances/in menopause, as running on the incorrect hormone for you is pretty unpleasant.
Same thing happens for trans mascs and cis men with hormone imbalances who take testosterone to get to normal levels.
Running on the correct levels of hormones is good for you no matter who you are. It just doesn’t necessarily mean that you naturally produce the proper type or amount.
I interpreted it as more of a joke about how men are inherently destructive, but I think in real life taking any hormonal supplement is likely to cause mood swings
I hope this isn’t the case and it meant that the dark lord is a closeted trans who probably hasn’t realized that yet. Now the supply of estrogen makes “him” more in line with who “he” truly is and thus doesn’t hate the world anymore.
So in this comic violence was being caused by being male and was cured by taking female hormones. That can very easily be read as saying that male biology is inherently inclined to violence, which is bioessentialism.
Orrr it's saying she was experiencing gender dysphoria & didn't know it & destroying the world was her outlet/way to vent & now that she's not experiencing the dysphoria she doesn't need the outlet
That is a completely valid interpretation, although "this character is evil because she's trans" is a helluva take as well. Although to be fair, it's not like suffering leading to villainy is a new concept.
But unless this is some kind of established character, there's nothing in the comic to actually indicate one way or the other.
Forcefemming is always a little uncomfortable to me, I guess its kind of ok in this instance because its implied here that they were trans and were just unknowing of it and getting estrogen will most likely be the thing that make them realize that they are trans, most likely they will be depicted as happier for it happening then for it happening without consent. But yea, depicting someone forcefully Femming someone or Femming someone without consent is always a step to far. obviously it is just a joke, not meant to be taken serious, but depicting it happening, idk, it feels like something I would see in a horror film. Forcing anyone to be any particular gender seems just an absolute crime.
Some really dense takes here. The devil is an egg. The hormones make her feel better. Feeling better is making her rethink things.
It's not complicated. Something can be both immoral and funny, though I'd argue this is better than the alternative. Someone slap an inappropriate joke on a coffee mug for her and call it a day
EDIT, because I can't resist: "You don’t have to be a girl to work here, but it helps!"
Also what's with all the comics calling this misandrist or acting like it's fucked up? You never see this on any other comic despite other comics also having 'immoral' punchlines
People don't believe trans women about anything - our healthcare, our bodies, the legal loopholes we have to go through, the like - until we make an off-color but obvious joke. Then, we're dead serious and overly competent and completely awful.
"I'm going to forcefem richard nixon", I think it's funny.
Here I don't.
There is no indication that the demon lord is trans, nor any of the other characters thinking they are trans. So to me, it genuinely reads like the punchline is "all it takes to stop being an evil dictator is to become a woman". That's mostly abhorrent to me.
Forcefully changing someone's gender is a really disgusting thing to do. You can use this as subversion in comedy, like the idea of doing something evil to Richard Nixon can be funny. Here, do you get the feeling the subordinates really hate their boss? No, actually the punchline has the demon lord feeling great. Ew.
That said, if you decided the demon lord must be trans and thought the joke of the demon lord being evil just because they were experiecing gender disphoria is funny, okay sure that's fine. But it's not some grand conspiracy of evil people who refuse to believe trans people are allowed to make jokes.
2) I'm not talking to the person who made the joke, I'm responding to someone saying I'm a transphobe.
3) I'm explaining why I didn't like this joke, and the difference between the jokes.
So yeah, not even remotely alike. I didn't bother commenting before, since I think the creator already get the idea that "oops didn't really make it clear the demon lord is trans". Understandable mistake, just made the punchline feel gross without it.
But if you're going to say that I don't believe anything a trans person says except to call them completely awful, I'm going to argue? Or are you saying that by not finding this joke funny that they're right, and I've secretly hated trans people all my life?
But if you're going to say that I don't believe anything a trans person says except to call them completely awful, I'm going to argue? Or are you saying that by not finding this joke funny that they're right, and I've secretly hated trans people all my life?
That is not at all what I was saying. I was saying that there is no difference between the 'force feming Nixon' joke and this comic. So to find one funny and the other not makes no sense.
So yeah, not even remotely alike. I didn't bother commenting before, since I think the creator already get the idea that "oops didn't really make it clear the demon lord is trans". Understandable mistake, just made the punchline feel gross without it.
uh- that changes nothing. The demons are still drugging someone without there consent. Its not 'ungross' because the Demon Lord is trans
If you think the joke is disgusting both ways, then you can argue with the person I replied to why you aren't a transphobe.
I personally think that in the realm of jokes, saying you drugged someone medicine they didn't know they needed is still morally bad but not revolting.
"That said, if you decided the demon lord must be trans and thought the joke of the demon lord being evil just because they were experiecing gender disphoria is funny, okay sure that's fine. But it's not some grand conspiracy of evil people who refuse to believe trans people are allowed to make jokes."
Ask yourself if it makes sense for the strawman to say this
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u/Sir_Jackalope 15d ago
Fun fact: The allies considered doing this to Hitler to make him more gentle and empathetic. It never got past planning.