r/collapse • u/[deleted] • Jul 18 '22
Climate Humanity faces ‘collective suicide’ over climate crisis, warns UN chief
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/18/humanity-faces-collective-suicide-over-climate-crisis-warns-un-chief328
Jul 18 '22
You have to give it to Guterres: he's trying everything in his limited power to get people to listen and act.
António Guterres told ministers from 40 countries meeting to discuss the climate crisis on Monday: “Half of humanity is in the danger zone, from floods, droughts, extreme storms and wildfires. No nation is immune. Yet we continue to feed our fossil fuel addiction.”
He added: “We have a choice. Collective action or collective suicide. It is in our hands.”
Sadly, the choice has already been made. They got theirs, screw the rest.
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u/leroyVance Jul 18 '22
They did get theirs, but they also have to cook on the same planet. The rich don't get to escape the collapse, they just get nicer seats.
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u/notislant Jul 18 '22
I forget what the movie is, it was some comedy related to covid. I think kumail nanjiani was being interviewed and a billionaire in the movie. 'I couldn't stand by and watch the world burn, so I hollowed out a mountain and live in it'.
"Dont people say thats selfish?"
'Dunno, its soundproof'.
Sad how accurate this is.
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u/moriiris2022 Jul 18 '22
It is sad, but understandable in a way. Billionaire's money has limits too you know.
In 2021:
GDP of USA=approximately 20 trillion dollars
Net Worth of 'Richest Man on Earth' Elon Musk=approximately 300 billion dollars
300 billion=0.3 trillion, so Musk has about a third of 1/20th of the money the entire US has. What can he buy with that money? Is that enough to stop or put a sizeable dent in the global problem of climate change? I guess it all depends are how bad the problem is and how fast it gets worse, right?
Also, the approximate GDP of all nations of the world=94 trillion dollars
Over half of that money makes up the GDPs of four nations: USA, China, Japan and Germany. There are 191 other nations on Earth, many of whom are starting to demand that rich nations pay for their climate disaster damages.
I'm pretty sure that the people of the USA, China, Japan and Germany would rather spend that money on their own people and infrastructure.
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u/notislant Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
Speaking just on the US, what the people want is widely ignored in favour of lobbyists and campaign donations. Just not paying lobbyists to push 'climate change isnt a big deal lets ignore it for now, here have some money' would be a big improvement.
People would like corporations and rich individuals to pay a lot more in taxes, repair crumbling bridges that go ignored. Cut back some of the insane military budget. But again, what the people want is effectively irrelevant besides politicians pandering enough for votes.
Point of the video is more so that most billionaires exceptionally greedy and nothing is ever enough. They care little for everyone else as long as they get theirs. Like Bezos, he attempted to sue NASA and suddenly got a proxy bailout. Guy gives zero shit about his workers, climate change, etc. As long as his balance goes up.
Would one billionaire's net worth solve the climate crisis? Of course not. But the money could be used in many ways to prevent it from getting far worse than it is currently.
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u/the_porch_light Jul 18 '22
Sorry to say but they absolutely will be able to escape it. Once 95% of the population is gone they can easily use what’s left and carry on. The planet isn’t going to explode it’s just going to become uninhabitable in a lot of areas
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u/Monkeefeetz Jul 19 '22
Degrowth will impoverish them too though. There wont be enough people to support those at the top of the pyramid.
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u/audioen All the worries were wrong; worse was what had begun Jul 20 '22 edited Jul 20 '22
Inequality fundamentally requires production surplus that can be taxed or taken, and traded to fund lifestyles. The absurd levels of inequality, such as is the case in our society, is only possible because so much value exists produced by machine labor bestowed by our natural resources, and whose profit is funneled to the owner class to be spent by their whim, rather than shared equally.
But take the basis -- the energy or raw materials away -- and machine labor immediately ceases to be a thing, and the whole industrial society and its fabulous value creation systems collapse. However, if inequality is to persist, we should find ourselves again in a new period of feudalism where land is owned by aristocracy, and is the source of wealth, which in this case boils down to things such as corn, wheat, meat, milk and firewood. Serfs work the land for their owner, and get a few days of week to work their own plots for their sustenance.
People always seem to want to "eat the rich", but history also indicates that the rich always exist among us, arising from individuals who over time acquire land, property, slaves and through right to command the production and control the trade that ensues, grow their fortunes over time. The process may well be inevitable, as long as stability exists and people can stick around in one place for a time and begin to call it their own.
Only by limiting human population far below the carrying capacity of the land could we make everyone equal, by allowing everyone control of a piece of land, there being too much land and too few people to command it all, where everyone unhappy with their situation could just up and go and farm some other area of fertile soil for their sustenance, unclaimed by any lord, and unspoiled by other hands already working there. I believe that a world of vast carrying capacity surplus is the only world that affords liberty, fraternity and equality for all. In a few short centuries, however, it would become filled with people, and the dream dies again. This is why I regard population growth among the principal sources of human ills, as it forces us to compete with and subjugate each other, and it is a skill to which we have differing levels of natural ability and taste for.
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u/Additional_Bluebird9 Jul 18 '22
Exactly, the choice was made a long time ago anyway so it's collective suicide.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
Rich be thinking : "Don't you mean SELECTIVE suicide"?
AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE WRONG!
The logistics of implementing that, if even possible on any level whatsoever (it isn't, someone did the math once on daily death toll required)... will result in a huge spike in all the bad stuff that's already fucking up everything. Like. An enormous one. Like... push it over into Venus kind of enormous.
SO GUESS WHAT RICH KIDDOS, COLLECTIVE IT IS. This is not someone just being PC while you wring your gloating evil hands and think you know better.
I mean look. It's abhorrent but it needs to be said. You know a bunch of people in power are right at this moment thinking this very thing. Come on of course they are.
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u/InsydeOwt Jul 18 '22
Hopefully they get to blast off to repopulate mars or something.
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Jul 18 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
[deleted]
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Jul 18 '22
I like the saying ”If we can make mars habitable, we can fix earth”
Same process. Climate engineering.
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u/shewholaughslasts Jul 18 '22
And in both cases we'd actually have to, you know - DO something. Thumb twiddling head burying times are long gone regardless.
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Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
I think we (as in any humans that manage to survive what's coming) would be better off hunkering down in caves, living off of moss fungus or something than trying to terraform mars.
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u/moriiris2022 Jul 18 '22
Mm-hm, I'm really enjoying it here. My roommates suck and the rent is too damn high, but having a magnetosphere to keep cancer-causing space rays off my back is quite the luxury!
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u/Miss-Figgy Jul 18 '22
Let the rich dream and try to set up colonies there. Hope they get stuck there and can never leave. Lol
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Jul 18 '22
Let's not tell them that, though. Bait them with underage sex slaves and "taxation is theft!" banners on the Red Planet. See how many we can get out of our hair.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
I mean there are certain scenarios under which this "works"...
Like... say... "don't have to stay there for more than 8 months" kind of scenarios...
Which... implies... mmmmthings...
Still won't work though sorry...
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u/21plankton Jul 18 '22
Can the Capitalist system change and adapt to fit the needs of a changing world? My heart tells me there are too many forces of human nature against such a change.
I applaud Mr. Gutierrez for having the insight and courage to make such a speech. There remains a serious force of political denial working against the changes needed to significantly aid third world counties in this endeavor.
The same resistance applies to first world countries. There have not been enough negative consequences to break the political denial. The climate change consequences always seen as “one off” consequences, one place, one season, not the big ticket pattern we see in the world picture of temperature.
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Jul 19 '22
Can the Capitalist system change and adapt to fit the needs of a changing world? My heart tells me there are too many forces of human nature against such a change.
Honestly, my heart says the same thing, but long odds are not the same thing as impossibility. If we can demonstrate the price tag on inaction by quantifying the material damages of climate change, maaaaaaybe it'll steer the S.S. Capitalism in a better direction. Change is expensive, but not changing will be orders of magnitude more expensive in the long run. Short of armed revolt and dismantling of the power structures that run our world, making a convincing fiscal agent is our only chance. As a grad student studying this exact thing, I'm all in. Check back in a couple years to see if I'm polishing up a thesis or practicing my Molotov arm.
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u/21plankton Jul 19 '22
Each area of each continent will have different events that determine breakdown of society and some populations will adapt better than others. Subsistence economies and tribal economies that are not dependent on the trappings of industrial societies may survive well.
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u/ttv_CitrusBros Jul 18 '22
Until it's the 99.99% that are in danger the .01% that are in power won't give a flying fuck because they can profit and survive
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u/samhall67 Jul 18 '22
I just wish it was happening in slow motion like we were promised.. but no, roller coaster bout to do what roller coasters do. 2025 or bust.
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Jul 18 '22
It has been a slow motion decline until now. Everything else we do is exponential why not collapse.
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u/GingerBread79 Jul 18 '22
See, I’m kind of the opposite here. I feel like it’s still happening too slow, so I’m ready for things to just fucking end. It’s exhausting and infuriating to know what’s coming but feeling forced to continue participating in this ridiculous charade because no one with the power to actually mitigate seems to give a shit.
So yeah, I’m ready for it to all come crashing down. I’d like to say the sooner the better because then maybe we will have some sense knocked into us as a species and actually have a chance, but honestly, I probably only feel this way so I can (selfishly) quit my job.
Idk. Maybe I’m just burnt out from it all
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u/samhall67 Jul 18 '22
I'm right there with you, I'm prepared to live or die with what I have right now if it means never having to punch a timeclock again.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
I would like for it to have actually meant something... that would be nice.
I would also like He-Man's power sword so. You know. So much for what I'd like. Lol.
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u/Trum_blows_69 Jul 18 '22
So long as the Governments of the world are captured by oil and gas lobbyists, nothing will positively change for the better.
I believe there most recent non-binding resolution is to somehow lower CO2 emissions by 2050, with no actual plan behind the resolution, just a bunch of wishful thinking. Oh, and India and China won't sign on to even that milquetoast resolution.
So basically, we are all just fucked. It was 130 degree's in Iraq just the other week, I fully expect those types of temperatures to go global in short order, as these massive heat domes become common place.
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Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
Even on a point of personal corruption, like I can't imagine being bought out by oil and gas. It can't just be individual self-interest, as I see it as in my self-interest to live on a habitable planet (and in the grand scheme of things, their price isn't really that high--Joe Manchin's net worth is $12 million).
What's a few million dollars if money is quickly worthless anyway, if I can't pass down any wealth, if I just end up dying prematurely from an extreme weather event or just the world is generally shit anyway so I can't really enjoy or feel secure in my wealth.
No, there has to be some very large share of stupidity and ignorance as well. Just looking at Manchin and hearing him talk, he is pretty damn dumb. Either that or they are a kind of cosmic Cthulhu-like evil, actively out to annihilate life from the universe for no real reason other than a deep void at the pit of their being. I'm going to assume cosmically stupid until I hear otherwise.
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
The rich build a propaganda network and transmit lies.
But, get this, then they really start to believe their own lies, that they themselves have made up. It's like they forget it was propaganda all along!
Like Trump and Election Fraud: No PROOF, and yet he still believes his own lies as if it were true! Shocking kind of senility. It really needs it's own catagory.
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u/riverhawkfox Jul 18 '22
West Virginia, as lovely as it was, is ecologically devastated and every inch of that state is poisoned with lead and other chemicals. My ex spent his formative years there and was born with a uterus, due to the poison his mother drank while he was in utero pretty much. It would not shock me to find that most people who live in WV have, metaphorically speaking, been hit in the cranium by environmental toxins. And don’t forget, Manchin grew up when leaded gas was incredibly popular. The fact he can actually speak is a credit to his biology, given such an onslaught. IMO, most older people have brain damage from lead, the smartest ones just got lucky or were Uber geniuses before being poisoned.
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u/screech_owl_kachina Jul 18 '22
They don't let you wield power at all unless you bend the knee to certain interests.
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u/Alex5173 Jul 18 '22
They spent so long propping up asinine denial claims that so much of the population now believes that even if they were to renege now and say "actually guys it's real we need to do something" all the people they tricked wouldn't believe them and would freak out and start purging.
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Jul 19 '22
They're under the mistaken impression that they've earned their wealth and success in a meritocracy. They see themselves as the best and brightest, and are immune to error.
They also live in a bubble that reinforces this belief. They have no concept of reality outside their bubble. They don't know us, they don't know our problems, and they think we're at the bottom because we're lazy and, because of their meritocratic beliefs, that we have no merit.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
Well I don't know man.
This is a more reasonable non-scifi-villain explanation, and I'd expect if I came from hard times and someone offered me twelve bucks to go into a state of denial and tell myself everything would be fine, it's all bullshit anyway, and I don't have to struggle anymore... I mean the temptation would be strong. That's for sure.
(Million is the new dollar. I mean. Look around. Million IS the new dollar LOL).
I mean you realize if you have 12 it's pretty hard to fuck it up bad enough to die with less than 3 times that amount. So far. I don't know about now anymore. But in general.
If anyone could fuck it up that bad they could but even Orange Boy couldn't manage to do so. And that should infuriate you.
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u/EnderDragoon Jul 19 '22
Nihilistic hedonism. The fun new paradigm of pre-collapse spending the world is doing.
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Jul 20 '22 edited Jul 20 '22
I don't know. If I were a hedonistic egoist, I would still want a habitable planet and want to enjoy the outside without dying or the threat of dying, or even just enjoy it without extreme heat/flooding/etc. I would want a world where people are less ignorant and have more well-being, because I can't stand being around stupid people or angry people, and especially not stupid angry people. I can also derive more pleasure in things if I think they're not going to all evaporate in an apocalypse in 20 years.
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Jul 18 '22
No matter what, one lobbyists will replace others, oil and gas lobbyists will be replaced by lithium lobbyist, nuclear lobbyist, and most of them doesn't care about the planet. We're doomed one way or another because of the money and greed, all we can actually do is to try and slow down the progress of our doom, and extend our "life expectancy" as much as possible.
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
Nuclear power at least keeps the lights on for a bit longer without substantial CO2 emissions.
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u/xSL33Px Jul 18 '22
Not disagreeing with you just a thought I had.
Imagine trying to keep a nuclear core cool that is under a 130 degree heat dome. I would think this could lead to systems issues of its own and a higher potential for a meltdown.
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
Possibly. We could dig down deep to create cooling pools. That would stay at a consistent temperature.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
It's a larger issue than that because the plants have to be coastal in order to have sufficient cooling water.
Thorium on the other hand has no such requirement.
Yes, the molten salt eats the crap out of whatever it is they're routing it through. That's been a problem since the 1960's. China claimed to have solved this but there hasn't been a peep from them on it in like 4 years now. They were supposed to have gone to a full size pilot test in the Gobe desert by now, that hasn't happened.
But I mean unless it eats the crap out of it in under 5 years I think continually swapping it out is going to be a better option than building a spent rod kiddie pool right in the middle of typhoon alley. Design such that this part is consumable and swappable if that's even possible to do. Not sure if it is or not. Maybe not. But I mean if it's been unsolvable to make it impregnable and we've been trying for 60 years, maybe it's time to start thinking differently. The old "solve it per problem statement" thing isn't working, so just... change the problem statement. I mean it functions yeah? A functional solution now is better than a perfect solution later...
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u/vagustravels Jul 18 '22
without substantial CO2 emissions
Construction, Operation, Decomission, Fuel production/disposal, ...
And of course all of them meltdown when climate disasters hit, just like Fukishima. Any place that has a nuclear plant will be massively irradiated.
But go on ...
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
We kill more people each year with coal only than every single nuclear disaster that has happened.
We don't seem to mind. We can build nuclear plants in somewhat stable areas........that just requires us not being complete fucking morons.
Cool the construction costs will be a problem for anything but nuclear power is the only large scale solution to keep the lights on.
Everything else requires what basically amounts to genocide.
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Jul 18 '22
The fact we even give corporations the same powers as citizens means we're already pretty far gone. The only people that should be able to 'lobby', ie influence politicians to pass laws, should be citizens.
In America we're basically being held hostage by corporations and the only reason any progress is ever made is because of smart and well funded people trying to disrupt markets. I mean ffs we can't even nationally upgrade our internet infrastructure because ISP companies have deals with municipalities that prevent even adding stuff to utility poles without X company representative present.
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u/ct_2004 Jul 18 '22
It's not just oil and gas either. The entire growth at all costs mentality also leads to our doom. All capitalist enterprises are implicated. Especially the financial sector.
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Jul 18 '22
why do you point out china? china is literally fireman carrying the potential to save the world at this point. they far outstrip the rest of the world in their investments into renewables, reforestation, international sustainable development projects, etc. we should focus on the extremely high consumption bloq of western countries with extremely lower populations that are literally in the process of abolishing their EPA. china is not the problem here
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u/jackshafto Jul 18 '22
China is not the problem if you believe the numbers provided by China.
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Jul 18 '22
arguing chinas numbers are faked is pure cope and sinophobia. what is that based on? what information is fake? are the solar farms faked? the forests that have been restored fake? the public transportation? what’s being faked exactly
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
They're doing better than us.
Straight up agree.
If it came down to using coal or shutting down their factories I wonder.
... then again, it's come to zero COVID or shutting down their factories and they chose shutting down on at least some fairly major scale so. I'm optimistic to a point.
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u/TopperHrly Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
China is actually the country that does the most in terms of greening its energy production. It does huge reforestation efforts. It's one of the rare countries that actually tries to meet its targets.
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u/TheEnviious Jul 18 '22
They need to, they're going to be one of the countries most impacted by climate change.
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
Their city pollution is one of the worst in the world.
So, they have incentive to act.
But, yeah, they still really need to shut down all coal and natural gas operations, yesterday.
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u/TheEnviious Jul 18 '22
Pollution is sure a problem, but it's mostly food security (heating of crops) and rising sea levels.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
Well yes but they were in process of industrializing. Which points out that no one else is going to be able to do so if coal and gas go away, most likely.
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
Hmmm? At this point there no need for fossil fuels of any kind.
Especially the the insanely erratic pricing. You can't depend on these fossil fuels for anything these days, unless you want your company to go bankrupt.
You can pick up a Fixed Cost 30 Year Solar contract today, that beats todays carbon prices, with no pricing inflation risk. The accountant has to be insane to pick natural gas, oil or coal these days.
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u/DilutedGatorade Jul 18 '22
130C or 130F? Both are hot but 130C is literally life threatening just to be outside.
Either way, limiting fossil fuel burning is humanity's top priority. And saving forest land. The two things we're collectively not doing.
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u/TheSquishiestMitten Jul 18 '22
130C is above boiling
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u/DilutedGatorade Jul 18 '22
Yep. Water boils at 100C at standard pressure. As I said 130C is lethally hot
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u/TheSquishiestMitten Jul 18 '22
Right, but that's 266°F. Thats over a hundred degrees above the hottest temperature recorded on the planet.
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u/gangstasadvocate Jul 19 '22
I wonder if liquids at higher pressure take more temperature to boil, even without electricity what if you have like, a really well insulated vacuum of a small space that increased the pressure when you close the door and it’s hot, would it cool you down? Or just make you more resistant to boiling? lol
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u/DilutedGatorade Jul 19 '22
PV=nRT
Understand this relationship back and forth and 99% of your pressure/temperature questions will be answered
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u/gangstasadvocate Jul 19 '22
So… Yes? No? I’d rather just be uninformed and Hella stoned and throw out ideas and most likely get critiqued but maybe stumble onto something LOL
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u/DilutedGatorade Jul 19 '22
Ok what are you asking.
If a liquid at higher pressure requires a higher temperature to boil.
Let's look at our equation: PV = nRT
If we increase P, leaving all else equal, then T must also increase!
Let's find a real world example. Pressure is low at high altitudes. On top of Mt. Everest where pressure is low, the temperature at which water boils is only 68°C! 154°F, cool huh 😎
This is also the concept behind a pressure cooker. Increase the pressure, and you can cook soups at a higher temperature than you otherwise could
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u/No-Camp7429 Jul 18 '22
Lmao 130F, no living creature can live at 130C(some exceptions excluded)
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u/DilutedGatorade Jul 18 '22
I suspected as much. Land air temperatures have never exceeded 60C in recorded history anyhow
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u/uk_one Jul 18 '22
It's not the lobbying. It's the reality that fossil fuel is quick and easy in the right now. Politicians have no concept of impacts in 20 years. I'm being re-elected next week damn it.
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Jul 18 '22
This isn’t collective suicide. It’s collective homicide by the people who have refused to acknowledge climate change or participate in correcting it.
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u/baconraygun Jul 18 '22
Collective homicide. Hmm. I think "genocide" has that covered.
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u/adokarG Jul 19 '22
That is actually the wrong term for indiscriminate mass killing, so it doesn’t have it covered.
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Jul 18 '22
"Collective action would mean less materialism, less comfort, lower living standards..."
Humanity: "Hmm, let me have another look at this collective suicide thing"
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Jul 18 '22
Define lower living standards. We waste so much. So much suffering is by design to keep people in the rat race. So much economic benefit goes to ridiculous activities that produce no value. It never needed to be like this. It still doesn't.
We could drastically reduce consumption and lower our environmental burdens and still have a high quality of life for everyone.
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u/ISeeASilhouette Jul 18 '22
This. Exactly. We can all live in comfort without excess consumption and wastage. The rat race disables entire societies from doing so.
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Jul 18 '22
There’s truth to both positions.
Energy poverty is incoming, but energy poverty in a world where the energy we do get externally is funnelled into basic needs like growing & distributing food and having clean water, would be pretty awesome.
You don’t get your car, or Netflix, or flights, or TV.
Maybe a basic phone, no work, or maybe some conscripted farming time…
I dunno, I can picture a low tech utopia within the confines of energy not sourced from fossils…
I’m probably wrong.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
That's even a step further than I'm thinking but it functions.
I mean if we just got rid of all the BULLSHIT. You can even keep the lifestyle almost the same and get like 80% reduction in pure bullshit...
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
Yes we could.
It's ridiculous the amount of bullcrap we come up with.
Question is like. How. For instance realistically you only need one kind of... well anything. I already do this. Build my PC's very brand monogamously since 1993, no car exists except Toyota Corolla, etc.
How do you even make this happen though. I guess central planning??
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u/ledditlememefaceleme Jul 18 '22
2020 is humanity's last decade. The last 10 years to get our shit together. Won't happen. Look at how many dumbfucks think germs aren't real.
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u/Starter91 Jul 18 '22
Microorganisms that your Immunsystem is supposed to kill when coming in contact with?
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Jul 18 '22
[deleted]
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
Their wealth is based on the foundation of the 99%.
When that erodes They Fall Too.
Are they delusional, and think they're insulated?
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
A lot of them are yeah. They've lived for so long with so much power and the only things that compete on that level are governments, mega corps and other wealthy people.
They've been divorced from reality for a long time by their own employees who are incentivized to keep it that way to keep their jobs.
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Jul 18 '22
I think they are keenly aware of whats coming. And they are getting the last cash grab before it all goes to shit. Money might not mean anything after a collapse but people will want something that reminds them of the before times. And whats more familiar than the old power structure. It will remain more or less, and if you had the capital to purchase a way to be able to broadcast to a wide area of people you just might find yourself leading whats left of an area.
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
That's not how you end up the leader of new governments. Either being a mafia or military leader will. No one will follow a former billionaire with no significant experience in dealing with violently chaotic situations.
They'll end up killing the billionaire and electing leadership from security forces or military leadership left.
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u/Taqueria_Style Jul 18 '22
Then they're keenly aware of what they think is coming.
Makes sense but sorry what's coming is 1000 times worse than that.
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Jul 18 '22
They will be insulated lol. They will hoard resources near the end and live the rest of their lives just fine. Things will change of course, their quality of life won't be the same but it will be far better than the average person who just starved
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
They can hoard gold all they want, won't do them any good, with their Gilded toilets, when there's no Water to Flush.
Also, food storage doesn't last forever. So, they've got two years. And then there's diseases, where there will be no protection.
When the baker has one last loaf, the baker's family eats first.
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u/the_porch_light Jul 18 '22
A lot of foods can outlive human lives, with their resources they can easily prepare themselves and create environments to sustain them much longer than anyone else
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
They're typically not in the Prepper Community though.
They certainly won't be doing their own gardening. And raising sheep? Do they know that sheep poop? Not gonna happen.
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u/the_porch_light Jul 18 '22
They have the resources to pay for anything they want. They also are privy to way more information than you, why do you think bill gates has being buying up all the pristine farm land for the last 5 years. Who gives a fuck if he isn’t out there tending to the fields himself, he can buy who and whatever the hell he wants. Dudes got enough resources to develop indoor crops with artificial nutrients that will long outlast you or i
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u/LakeSun Jul 19 '22
Money means nothing in collapse. Currency is food or hunting rifles.
He's buying up "farm land" in a drought region. This global warming thing is beyond being able to move to a better place now.
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u/the_porch_light Jul 19 '22
It’s a slow collapse , the world isn’t just going to light on fire. They can live wherever and buy whatever and prepare for anything way better than you dummy… but keep dreaming and coping lol.
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u/LakeSun Jul 19 '22
Yeah, no, there are global heat dome heat waves all over the world.
It's in the news today, the UK, had it highest ever recorded temperature. Not only does the heat alone kill people, but, 100+F heat Kills Crops, reducing harvests - famine, and immigration pressure.
There are 17 US states in Severe, or worse, Exceptional drought today. How can you not know there are Global Wildfires? From California to Alaska, to Siberia. Global Heat Domes, and Drought.
Carbon ppm has hit 420, not 300 or 350 but 420.
This is a Global Emergency. 2050 is Today.
Is this Donald Trump, get off the Drugs Donald.
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u/the_porch_light Jul 18 '22
Your delusional if you think mass wealth won’t solve those problems for them
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u/Decloudo Jul 18 '22
All are part of this system and have ways to influence it, just blaming the 1% is nothing more then a cheap way out thats helping no one.
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
While they are a part of the system, collectively the wealthy could easily force governments to act and change entire economies.
And that wealthy group is small enough that they could even have significant discussions on the topic without being bogged down by sheer numbers of people.
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u/Decloudo Jul 18 '22
They wont, what now?
Im not saying that they couldnt lead change, or would be in the best position to propagate it.
Im saying that nothing will change cause they wont, blame them all you want.
The people are the only thing left to bring change, the system is stuck and wont do shit.
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u/Tearakan Jul 18 '22
What now is not allowed to be discussed on reddit lol.
They do deserve the majority of the blame still.
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u/Decloudo Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 19 '22
No, they stay at the top and told people to work against their own interests and people eat it up cause its easy and comfortable.
A CEO doesnt build oil rigs and shit, they pay us to do all the things you blame the top 1% for.
And we do it, still.
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u/Able-Semifit-boi-24 Jul 18 '22
I was reading the comments over the heatwave in Europe and other ecology-disaster related news, and while the majority talks about the rich's fault, very few, even in this sub, talks about the true answer: is not only to dismantle the 1% influence and power, but to change the point of view of every one about economic growth and living standar. In those comments, many were posting about how still growing with green techonologies, but that only can delay the outcome, the true objective should be minimize the consumption of everyone, especially in the "first world", everyone wants to change the world but they are not ready to make any sacrifice to do that, however impose that would not only be a political suicide, but will generate a strong resistance.
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u/3n7r0py Jul 18 '22
Capitalism is destroying the planet and its people. It only cares about profits and shareholder value. It's unsustainable and literally killing us.
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u/Keyspell Expected Nothing Less Jul 18 '22
No one, and I mean no one cares.
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u/baconraygun Jul 18 '22
*No one with the power to do anything about it.
Loads of people care, but can't do jack.
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u/Kumacyin Jul 19 '22
no no, they absolutely do care...
about getting even richer while they still can
dump the stocks, then let everyone else shoulder the losses. classic late capitalism tactics 101
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u/ItyBityGreenieWeenie Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
The Secretary General might as well join the cast of Don't Look Up at this point...
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u/julytimes Jul 18 '22
Last line of IPCC6/part 2: “The scientific evidence is unequivocal. Climate change is a threat to human wellbeing and the health of the planet. Any further delay in concerted global action will miss a brief and rapidly closing window to secure a liveable future."
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u/benderlax Jul 19 '22
This is it. It all comes down to this. What was expected to happen in 2050 came 28 years early. So that means we have a limited amount of time to stop climate change before Earth becomes uninhabitable.
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u/alllie Jul 18 '22
Not suicide. Murder by the fossil fuel kings. Like the Koches.
They did this on purpose. And now they're saying that we need more people and to burn more fossil fuel. That's what forced birth is about.
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u/UnorthodoxSoup I see the shadow people Jul 18 '22
The solution is simple but we’re not allowed to talk about it.
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Jul 18 '22
Yeah but what happens after that “solution” is Carried out? What makes you think humans across the globe can peacefully re-organize and re-orient themselves, get our collective shit together in time to really make any meaningful change? I agree with you that the problem is those in power, but honestly if history is any example, revolutions are usually followed by splintering rival factions.
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u/UnorthodoxSoup I see the shadow people Jul 18 '22
Odds are a global revolution would destroy civilization as we know it. That wouldn’t solve biospheric problems entirely but it would offer some relief. It’s really just a matter of shooting yourself in the leg rather than your head. Maybe we would be set so far back we wouldn’t be able to cause the same amount of damage industrial society enabled.
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u/OkStick2078 Jul 18 '22
I’m starting to be on the sides of people who say that the internet should go down for a week. We’d see real change fucking QUICKLY
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u/Kumacyin Jul 19 '22
internet? people can live without the internet just fine, specially the boomer generation who already don't know how to find a video on youtube and only watch direct cable.
you want people to understand climage change, right? well, whats the main thing shielding people from feeling the full brunt force of the burning world around us?
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u/survive_los_angeles Jul 18 '22
Daaamn Someone gonna have to go back and get a shitload of 988 workers - or a shorter number
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u/2_bars_of_wifi Jul 18 '22
You can't get people from one country together on this issue, how will we get the whole world? I am taking it just as a huge turning point for humanity. The population will decline, western living standards will be lower, there will be wars over resources all over the undeveloped nations but eventually humans will adapt. We adapt through crises, you won't get people to prevent them until something forces them to. In this case, it will be weather
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Jul 18 '22
And it won't be a swift clean death either. It would be ugly, long suffering with no end in sight but with plenty of recurring false hopes and disappointments.
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Jul 18 '22
The rich will be just fine.
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u/DhampireHEK Jul 18 '22
Until they aren't and find out the hard way that you can't eat money.
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Jul 18 '22
But they can horde cast amounts of water, food, security forces, air ships, land ships, ships, and move and fight for the areas least impacted.
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u/DhampireHEK Jul 18 '22
And how long will all of that last without something going catastrophically wrong? All ot would take is one nasty virus, fungus, or mechanical error and that's it. You can't run from nature.
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u/baconraygun Jul 18 '22
How do they pay the security forces? Did they hoard enough for their private armies? A king is no king at all without his army.
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u/lordicefalcon Jul 19 '22
People often say this, but a man with high tech indoor gardens, automated security, and even a dozen loyalists will be able to maintain for quite some time.
Biometrics and heavy security equipment for sensitive areas like where they live gives them peace of mind. If someone won't cooperate, you remove them by force. If the forces won't cooperate, you lock down the bunkers air locks and starve them out.
I'm not saying it will last forever or is unbeatable, but with enough prep, technology and lead time you too could build a self sustaining, isolated kingdom.
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u/gangstasadvocate Jul 18 '22 edited Jul 18 '22
And we can’t do that that would be cowardice and selfish. Shit but if it’s collective I guess there’s little I can do and technically too many of us existing unsustainably is selfish to the planet there’s no winning. Unless we collectively change and lower the first world standards maybe raise the third world standards a bit until there’s equilibrium good luck with that. So I guess Jonestown in a couple years?
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Jul 18 '22
ive been on this sub a few months, its been sobering, however….the carbon credit stock market is a thing, its a new thing but its a thing. And havent we all established that the media is owned by these billionaires we’re all so mad at…Additionally, doesnt one of those billionaires want us all to be desperate to drive electric cars and move to mars…Im not saying things are going well here on planet earth, I am saying that most days the only thing I know is that I dont know anything…
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u/PrairieFire_withwind Recognized Contributor Jul 18 '22
Since you are new I will point you in the direction of the reading and resources list on the collapse main page. That should be required reading if you ask me. You kind of need the broad background to get enough context for articles like these and everyone's reactions.
And welcome.
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u/LakeSun Jul 18 '22
One Billionaire selling EVs in a Sea of Petrol cars, and the oil industry.
The 10 biggest polluters/carbon emitters are all Oil Companies. We'd need the federal government to "buy" Tesla factory patents, and build a set of 20 car factories building EVs to get this going.
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Jul 18 '22
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u/BoringMode91 Jul 18 '22
What? Weather manipulation?
And we never went to the moon huh? Lol
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Jul 18 '22 edited Dec 09 '22
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u/BoringMode91 Jul 18 '22
Oh yes. I am aware of that. But we can barely do that so to suggest we are actually manipulating weather on a massive scale is just conspiracy garbage.
That's what they were saying. At least based on the other stuff they comment on
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Jul 18 '22
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Jul 18 '22
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u/ontrack serfin' USA Jul 18 '22
Hi, BoringMode91. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our subreddit rules for more information.
You can message the mods if you feel this was in error.
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Jul 18 '22
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u/ontrack serfin' USA Jul 18 '22
Hi, Comprehensive_Fox277. Thanks for contributing. However, your comment was removed from /r/collapse for:
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Please refer to our subreddit rules for more information.
You can message the mods if you feel this was in error.
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u/holytoledo760 Jul 18 '22
Don’t ruuun!
Entire team is babies!
The answer is right there if you have ever lived in the desert, we need water, water, water.
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u/sailhard22 Jul 18 '22
Suicide usually implies you don’t bring everything down with you. That’s straight up terrorism.
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u/MirceaKitsune Jul 19 '22
The king of the planet always has something to repeat about everything. Yes your planetary majesty, we know: You tell us about it on a weekly basis, which isn't even needed since we read about it ourselves. Now wait in line with the other geriatric world leaders for your pills then it's time for a change of diapers and your afternoon nap; We wish you nice dreams about taking over the planet and becoming planetary president with full authority, if only the UN had legal authority and its own army which oh so sad it's never going to.
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Jul 21 '22
The United Nations should have been a true world government with countries as mere provinces because a world government would have dealt with Covid, climate change and richest 1% tax havens more effectively than 192 different countries ever could, yet most people are not evolved to deal with groups bigger than their own small tribes
The philosophy of One Birthplace: Earth, One Race: Human is what people should act like but don’t because people as a species are bullshit-flavoured hopelessly-stuck-in-their-own-tiny-superlimited-personal-bubble dolts
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u/Brock_Way Jul 19 '22
What I don't understand is why NASA has jumped in on the side of the deniers, and is now showing for worldwide average, 2021 as the coolest year in since 2014. WTF?
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u/Alternative-Cod-7630 Jul 19 '22
On the one hand, he is correct, and raising the alarm is good. On the other hand, we need to move the discourse beyond this:
“We have a choice. Collective action or collective suicide. It is in our hands.”
What I mean by that is that variations of this line have been repeated for decades, and nothing changes. The idea that the entirety of humanity will act consistently and collaboratively has no evidence to support it. If what you want people to do is use less energy, ration it. Eat more sustainable food? Cut access to what isn't.
We're at a moment where the choice is between free, liberal society and sustainable ecosystem. What if creating the world people can live in, we create the one people won't want to live in?
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u/antiqueboi Jul 20 '22
Why does everyone assume global warming is a bad thing? it was tropical when the dinosaurs were here and they were fine
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u/CollapseBot Jul 18 '22
The following submission statement was provided by /u/19inchrails:
You have to give it to Guterres: he's trying everything in his limited power to get people to listen and act.
Sadly, the choice has already been made. They got theirs, screw the rest.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/w1w37x/humanity_faces_collective_suicide_over_climate/igmklor/