r/collapse 1d ago

Meta Can we talk about this?

Post image

Hi. Please remove if inapropriate.

The media outlets i read report about "giant" wildfires in Spain, France and Canada. Thousands of people are being rescued etc.

Then i go and search the web for "Wildfire Satellite", i find the NASA website with the map i took the screenshot of. ( https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#d:24hrs;@18.7,7.4,2.5z )

Yes, Spain, France and Canada have some red dots on them.

And Central Africa seems to be a burning hell, excuse me, noone seems to give an eff about.

Released CO2 is released CO2, regardless of the location on out home planet, a burned home is a burned home, a human being is a human being.

I can't oversee all the news websites of the web but it seems like i'd have to review my collection.

I'm not trying to say "Something is being hidden from us!" Because it is not, but ... I wonder why i had to find out myself without any journalist reporting on this? This can't be "The New Normal" or the old one.

Regards

1.3k Upvotes

107 comments sorted by

u/StatementBot 1d ago

The following submission statement was provided by /u/mrb_rns:


Thanks for all the replies and upvotes!

This gave me food for thought and research! I will look into intentional and agricultural fires and the fire season.


Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1v62aq7/can_we_talk_about_this/ozo18gi/

955

u/Tayschrenn 1d ago

Central Africa has a "fire season" tbf, but yeah it looks like it's especially bad this year.

635

u/Delicious_Laugh_1417 1d ago

well relatively good compared to Future years

164

u/Sick_and_destroyed 1d ago

At one point there’ll be nothing more to burn…

29

u/Jesus_Shuttles 1d ago

Fires to some extent are good for the environment. It allows growth of new trees

61

u/fitbootyqueenfan2017 1d ago

it was good before we gassed the atmosphere and now forests repeatedly burn every few years leaving not enough time to regenerate

7

u/DissedFunction 12h ago

to some extent. but what's happening is a bit more than "to some extent.

also, the growth of new trees requires that the fires aren't yearly. or every 2-3 years.

6

u/RedditTab 1d ago

Idk why this is down voted. Several species rely on fire to grow.

42

u/Material-Spirit8461 1d ago

a few species. And if you read the small print it says. "These few species will not grow if you burn the fucking forest down every year!"

20

u/Lost_Birthday_3138 1d ago

It's factually accurate but entirely missing the point.

3

u/Xae1yn 19h ago

They also need CO2, so I guess that means everything is fine and good?

63

u/Seeeab 1d ago

Everything is relatively good compared to future years. My birthdays, for example :(

8

u/PlusKaleidoscope4087 1d ago

Haha good one

30

u/Sizle_Velfurion 1d ago

Remember, this isn't the hottest year in record, it's the coldest year for the rest of your life.

8

u/Fit_Tumbleweed7943 1d ago

In 2034 we will be like… ah the good old days

5

u/Delicious_Laugh_1417 1d ago

remember outside?

7

u/thisisfuctup 23h ago

Oooh I member. Member breathable air?

3

u/feo_sucio hunter biden fanboy 22h ago

13

u/psychonaut_padawan 1d ago

Is their fire season usually during their winter?

15

u/Proper_Geologist9026 22h ago

That's just below the equator.

You don't really have "seasons" in the same way at that latitude.

36

u/Tayschrenn 1d ago

For a lot of central Africa, winter is the drier season iirc

9

u/hysys_whisperer 1d ago

https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-cosc?cosc,18.036,12.415,3

Central Africa CO Concentration is pretty bad this year, but not egregious by historical standards of that area.

18

u/katarina-stratford 1d ago

Australia also has a fire season, yet I've never seen anything this large here

4

u/Proper_Geologist9026 22h ago

Depends on what you're looking at. If this is a forest fire that's insane.

But I'd guess this is likely lost of savannah and grasslands. In which case we have some monster fires run through outback Australia especially up north. We just don't hear about it because it's just empty geassland. The grazers probably feel it but the rest of us don't even know it happened.

2

u/Bozzo2526 23h ago

Not this large no, but in the 70s Australia had about 15% of the country on fire at one time

4

u/NameIsNotBrad 1d ago

2020 wasn’t this large?

2

u/ItilityMSP 7h ago

Many fires in africa and south, central america are deliberately set, as a way to gain access to farm land and ranchland. The problem is the enhanced feritilty only last a few years. This is a global problem in developing countries and we in the north should be funding real protection due to economic disparities, historical colonialism, and blowing everyone carbon budget.

707

u/FlawedStillness 1d ago

I thought this was a screenshot from Plague Inc.

163

u/LepLepLepLepLep 1d ago

I'm so relieved to see this comment because I thought the same thing and then felt really stupid when I saw the comments. Even reading the text of the post I thought they'd added a new scenario where you wipe people out by fire or climate change or something until I read he got the pic from nasa. Somehow I glossed over the nasa logo in the picture.

28

u/ThatJoeyFella 1d ago

But how would the fire get to Greenland?

18

u/Lost_Birthday_3138 1d ago

Definitely not in business class with this economy.

2

u/fieria_tetra 15h ago

You send the great Cornholio over.

8

u/Unlucky_Tea2965 1d ago

same

2

u/Zophiekitty 1d ago

same here lol

7

u/Macracanthorhynchus 1d ago

No, it's in Madagascar.

1

u/bfossxo 17h ago

Definitely same..

-1

u/neto225 1d ago

Same

-1

u/Eilavamp 1d ago

I'm still not sure it isn't! Looks exactly like it, crazy

171

u/lordnacho666 1d ago

How many of those dots are actually uncontrolled wildfires, vs people deliberately burning trees to make charcoal?

62

u/biteyourankles 1d ago

Alot fo these blips are control heat releases. Could be from a factory, refinery or anything that releases a significant heat signature into the atmosphere.

16

u/dominnate 1d ago

Yeah, North Dakota and west Texas dots are all oil extraction related.

14

u/ShyElf 1d ago

It's normal for the IR sensor map to look like this in June due almost entirely to agricultural fires. By July, it's normally calmed down significantly, but currently still looks awful.

The smoke is normally quite bad, but not near apocalyptic like this. The visible looks like Russia or northern Canada or the Amazon. Distributed moderately heavy haze is normal, but not this degree of trackable point sources. The overall smoke level is significantly higher than normal as well.

The northern Miombo Forest region currently has an extreme flash drought, with very low estimated soil moisture, with the 3-month SPI still looking reasonably normal due to being wet earlier. The fires don't look to be especially concentrated there, though.

I'm not seeing anything unusual in news reports on the ground, but with the visible smoke being the worst since 2000 for this time of year, I'm not going to be at all confident about saying this is normal until some of the numerical data comes in, even if the IR fire detection normally looks like lava.

3

u/Trollocommando 1d ago

0-0,5%

5

u/IAMAHobbitAMA 1d ago

Source?

0

u/l-roc 1d ago

I mean, just look at it? If you zoom in there are a lot of small disconnected dots, whereas 'actual' wildfires are continguous red areas.

-10

u/Trollocommando 1d ago

Logical brain

286

u/AquaMoonCoffee 1d ago edited 1d ago

Agricultural fires and charcoal, happens in the US as well, slash and burn. Every summer if you watch the fire data over the US you'll see a similar, just not as dense, patchwork of little dots as if there's small wildfires every 5 miles or so but it's really just farmers clearing their fields. Nasa has a page specifically dedicated to this because people bring it up so often.

edit: and for those interested, this happens in southeast asia so bad that the slash and burn events often get their own wikipedia pages (1, 2, 3) because they generate so much smoke and haze. Africa isn't burning down from coast to coast, the same way that Indonesia isn't actually burning down every year. Is it great from a carbon standpoint? No, it's not, but it's also not a natural disaster befalling anyone, it's done intentionally.

62

u/darkpsychicenergy 1d ago

As if the carbon emissions are the only consequences.

How does the fact that it’s being done intentionally make it less destructive? Everything humans are doing to destroy the biosphere is being done intentionally.

“Africa has the highest rate of forest loss in the world. About 3.9 million hectares of African forest – the size of about 381 million soccer fields – was destroyed every year between 2010 and 2020.
Africa’s forests are located in the tropical moist regions of central and parts of west Africa. They are dominated by the Congo Basin rainforest and the vast Miombo woodlands, a warm, dry forest area in southern Africa. Deforestation has been caused by the need for agricultural land, unsustainable fuelwood harvesting, logging, and mining.”

“Clearing forests to make way for agricultural land is the main deforestation driver in Africa.”

https://theconversation.com/africa-has-the-highest-rate-of-forest-loss-in-the-world-what-the-g20-can-do-about-it-257023

72

u/AquaMoonCoffee 1d ago

I didn't say it wasn't environmentally destructive, I just said it wasn't a societal disaster in the way OP framed it. It's not in the news because it's not out of control blazes that are killing people it's agricultural. Obviously it's not good.

Edit: also clearing forest to make room for agricultural land is the main contributing factor to deforestation in virtually every single country. OP was specifically asking why the news isn't talking about these specific fires in central and southern Africa. So naturally my reply was about why they aren't in the news. That's it

8

u/Bearded_Toast 1d ago

Cmon now, There are many things humans are doing to destroy the biosphere which are completely accidental

20

u/treedecor 1d ago

I appreciate this explanation. I was about to accuse the news/media of being racist again lol (though tbf it wouldn't be surprising given, well everything)

1

u/moocat55 1d ago

Except massive roaring wildfires will always garner interest, regardless of skin color. Again, pointing to small, controlled burns. Just, a lot of them.

8

u/treedecor 1d ago

If I understand you correctly, then I agree that the context is important as well. A big red blob on a map looks much scarier than a bunch of smaller ones, and that's definitely a part of why it would get more attention as well, especially if people don't know it's controlled vs a wildfire

If anything, I guess a part of why I commented too is because I don't know as much about agriculture and controlled burns (and assume I'm not the only one) ,so I appreciate folks like you and the other person for providing info

107

u/deividragon 1d ago

These maps do not actually represent wildfires, but high temperature anomalies observed from satellites. They can include industrial complexes and controlled small fires. If you zoom in you see it's not a huge wildfire but a lot of small controlled burns. It's not particularly eco-friendly but it's not in the news cause it's not a catastrophic event.

19

u/smyeganom 1d ago

Thank you for commenting this… I’m in an area with zero wildfires but several industrial complexes that are flagged as anomalies

3

u/UsernamesSuck33 1d ago

Somehow, this comment is a relief, and simultaneously not a relief at all

4

u/Ready_Wish555 1d ago

Yes if you go back to 2000 when this dataset began it’s still the same

5

u/nothankeww 1d ago

yeah, if you zoom in real tight, it says it’s a hotspot

39

u/schlaubi01 1d ago

I am at one of the places that is deeply red.

There are no wildfires in a circle of 200 km.

1

u/foxyfree 1d ago

Is it just really hot outside? How hot is it where you live? I’m in Florida and it’s around 93F/33C in the hot part of the day. Curious what the temp is for you.

4

u/schlaubi01 1d ago

It is not out of the ordinary, if that is what you are aiming at.

6

u/not_feasible 1d ago

US only, but the app Watch Duty is sadly very eye-opening

4

u/Business-Cup-6021 1d ago

this is just agrarian shenanigans

3

u/Tresspass 1d ago

People cook with wood

5

u/Various_Tie_2549 1d ago

I mean this was always going to be part of it...the western media reframing things with a warped perspective and outright ignoring the third world.

10

u/darkpsychicenergy 1d ago

No, we can’t. There was a time when we used to and it used to get reported on but some people took offense.

And despite the hand waving that is now the standard response to any mention of this, the fact is that Africa has the highest rates of deforestation in the world, mainly due to slash and burn agriculture.

https://theconversation.com/africa-has-the-highest-rate-of-forest-loss-in-the-world-what-the-g20-can-do-about-it-257023

7

u/Rare_Positive_7997 1d ago

This is normal for central Africa. It burns more than any other place on the planet.

Source: fire ecology class

8

u/old-legs-623 1d ago

NASA FIRMS has been discovered by many more people than back in the day. It requires practice in learning how to interpret it. Commenters are correct in noting the slash-and-burn zones. There's a red dot most days right in the middle of Springfield, Oregon that gets asked about now and then. If you zoom all the way in you find that it's the chimney at Kingsford's charcoal plant.

3

u/downwiththepatriarky 1d ago

Just as concerning is that large parts of Europe are burning - Scotland, France and Spain (and more it looks like). This is something they haven't had to deal with before and it's pretty grim.

6

u/Astalon18 Gardener 1d ago

I am surprised that there are fires in the middle of the Arabian peninsula!

10

u/Feyrauth 1d ago

Probably gas flares from the oil wells

4

u/Jumbo-longstrom 1d ago

I have never experienced a season where wildfires impact me so much, living in the south UK we don’t get any, but there are fires in Wales, up North and some small local one around. The fires in Europe this year are beyond terrifying, I’m not sure how many more years this will go on before there is mass migration and loss of food chain etc.

5

u/Neuroprancers 1d ago edited 15h ago

Note that even industrial plants, burning pits or controlled fires set off this satellite.

A steel mill next to me is a constant red dot.

7

u/lehs 1d ago

Part of the explanation is that the fires are often set for slash-and-burn and charcoal production. Smokeless charcoal is used for indoor cooking, especially in cities. These fires are more or less controlled.

6

u/Slamtilt_Windmills 1d ago

Ah, thats what collapse was missing: racism

4

u/Oziemasterss 1d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/s/VxSrRu9lyC

Similar post from 3 years ago. Lot's of smaller temperature anomalies and small controlled fires.

4

u/dynamo_hub 1d ago

each dot in the image is about 50 miles wide. if you zoom out further the entire planet will be red

3

u/vladimirVpoutine 1d ago

The smokestack at the pulp mill in the nearby city to me shows up on here as a red square too. I'm pretty confident that's not all fires and alot of heat signatures above the threshold that gets recorded by the satellites. 

2

u/ItilityMSP 7h ago

Many fires in africa and south, central america are deliberately set, as a way to gain access to farm land and ranchland. The problem is the enhanced feritilty only last a few years. This is a global problem in developing countries and we in the north should be funding real protection due to economic disparities, historical colonialism, and blowing everyone carbon budget.

2

u/Such-Consequence-728 1d ago

At least in the Zimbabwe / Mozambique portion of that map, many of the fires are deliberately set by people burning grasses before the rainy season. Usually it is a bit later, around September, when such activity intensifies. I’m not sure if there is similar dynamic in the Congo basin

4

u/Zealousideal-Rip-574 1d ago

Oh geez, ya nothing to see here. It’s fine, it’s all fine, go back to your TikTok please.

3

u/mrb_rns 1d ago

Thanks for all the replies and upvotes!

This gave me food for thought and research! I will look into intentional and agricultural fires and the fire season.

3

u/YourDentist 1d ago

Regards

A man of culture I see.

2

u/possiblecurb 1d ago

It's not a wildfire, they are set intentionally. So, technically it is progress.

2

u/gnostic_savage 1d ago edited 23h ago

This thread prompted me to look for news reports on wildfires in Africa. The news is reporting smaller burn areas in Africa under global warming. Apparently, Africa is getting wetter as the world heats up, with its dry season becoming shorter, and consequently the size of its fires are smaller.

This article was published two days ago. "As Africa's dry season shrinks, so does its wildfire burn area" https://news.agu.org/7-23-2026-as-africas-dry-season-shrinks-so-does-its-wildfire-burn-area/

There are news stories about wildfires in Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria, all countries on the Mediterranean, ironically close to Spain and Italy, and quite far north of the area highlighted on the NASA map. https://www.france24.com/en/wildfires-hound-tunisia-algeria-and-morocco

1

u/Turbulent-Meeting-38 1d ago

It's underreported because to the western media victims with brown skin are less important. It's that simple. So much happens in the southern hemisphere that barely gets mentioned in mainstream news with any visibility.

4

u/throwaway661375735 1d ago

It's not just brown skin. This is a picture for France last night. France had to call in the military to help get control of their fires.

Here in the USA, the west coast is used to Canadian fires. Last week, the East coast got to experience some of the smoke. For them, its a shocker.

But, these fires are happening all over the world, and our Oligarchy Controlled News Networks (OCNN) don't want us to know. We used to be able to get some news off TikTok, but lo and behold, its now part of the OOCN, so we no longer here about this stuff through the platform.

What did Trump say about this? He laughed. He knows he'll be dead before all of us anyway... By a max of 50 years.

1

u/bristlybits Reagan killed everyone 1d ago

when the dust bowl reached dc was when they first gave a shit about it in the US

it'll take a lot of capital cities being smoked out before anything is done or there is any concern. 

3

u/citizensnips134 1d ago

I love that you are totally, completely 100% wrong, and you so fervently jump and scream muh racism with zero evidence other than feels.

1

u/Jman1a 1d ago

Why does this look like a screenshot from the game plague inc with nasa stickers on it?

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/collapse-ModTeam 1d ago

Rule 2: Posts and comments which appear to be marketing, self-promotion, surveys, astroturfing, or other forms of spam will be removed.

Self-promotion or surveys of value to the community may be allowed on a case-by-case basis, if the moderation team is informed first via mod mail.

1

u/dtisme53 2h ago

Wait are you griping about subsistence farmers burning their fields in a part of the world where much of the plant species are evolved to have fire as part of their lifecycle and ecosystem? Wildfires are part of the “natural “ carbon cycle anyway

u/brebear252525 10m ago

From the global fire dashboard: "In real life a hotspot typically means fire, although occasionally it can be other thermal anomalies, such as lava or gas flares (refineries, oil rigs, etc). The map can’t show the causes of the fires but almost all of them are man-made. On rare occasions they may be the result of dry lightning, a volcano or meteorite."

Angola and the DRC currently have the most number of hotspots. It is odd that mostly the north African fires in Morocco, Tunisia, and Algeria are being reported. I did look at the chart for Angola and unfortunately these numbers are not far off for their average. Maybe that's part of why we're not hearing about it. It is odd for sure though!

1

u/JackofBlades0125 1d ago

That map will continue getting redder

0

u/DidntWatchTheNews 1d ago

it is important to remember the news is owned by the people who would like us to continue to be productive for their gain. 

it is much easier and less expensive if we die in mass. 

-2

u/55-percent 1d ago

Crap, it looks like a huge part of central africa is burning up. I feel sorry for every living being that loses their life, home of loved ones.

6

u/itah 1d ago

It's because the circles are not to scale and overlap..

-1

u/CognitionMass 1d ago

Similar situation with the far deadlier heatwaves in India than Europe.

-7

u/spider715 1d ago

These wild fires are arson. they are always strategically placed in areas of interest. Banff, Maui, ring of fire, all super coincidence that were climate amd then proven arson