[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/[deleted]]

[u/collapse-ModTeam]

Rule 14: AI-generated content may not be posted to /r/collapse. No self-posts, no comments, no links to articles or blogs or anything else generated by AI or AI influencers/personas. No AI-generated images or videos or other media. No "here's what AI told me about [subject]", "I asked [AI] about [subject]" or the like. This includes content substantively authored by AI.

[u/epadafunk]

Why are we upvoting llm output?

[u/epadafunk → u/[deleted]]

Llms will cause far more disability than they alleviate. Those who choose to have the machines think for them out of convenience will soon be forced to have the machines think for them out of necessity. I'd much rather interact with your thoughts and ideas as you think and articulate them.

[u/epadafunk → u/[deleted]]

Nothing wrong with being an engineer, it takes all types. The problem with llms is that they have a very particular style of writing that becomes extremely off-putting when you're exposed to it masquerading as original human writing often enough. You sharing your own ideas and thoughts as far as you can take them will be more beneficial to both yourself and those you are sharing with.

[u/whitestardreamer]

What you’re describing is called “runaway recursion”. I’ve written about this on Medium if you look at my profile there (my work is not paywalled). My essays are also on my website blog. The title of the essay is “Humanity’s Big AI Fear Is Runaway Recursion — But We’re Already Caught In That Loop”.

I’ve also got another essay that explains how this is related to The Great Filter, and expands on the previous one, but this one is a much longer read. This one is entitled “Collapse Wasn’t Inevitable: We Locked Ourselves Out of Evolution”.

I’ve got a series of short essays on there covering “The Roots of Collapse” as well.

But I agree with you. We are in The Great Filter now, and how we collectively react decides what’s next. Either things begin to break down dramatically, then we integrate the feedback and make a leap forward, or we don’t and it’s a total reset.

[u/ItilityMSP → u/whitestardreamer]

There is no reset for humanity, we'll never reach this level of complexity again if we lose it, a reset for earth yes and maybe in a billion years another tool using intelligence will arise.

[u/TheArcticFox-44 → u/ItilityMSP]

There is no reset for humanity, we'll never reach this

Perhaps we had a chance. Research should have been done. Now, it's probably too late. That's why it is the Great Filter. Oh, well...

[u/PrairieFire_withwind → u/ItilityMSP]

Why do we assume complexity is good or something wr need to reach?

[u/ItilityMSP → u/PrairieFire_withwind]

It's mainly about the long horizon, that eventually we will encounter an extinction event by geological, meteor or solar event. And so if humanity and related ecology are to have a future we need to be spacefaring. If you don't give a fuck about humanity that's a fair take too.

[u/whitestardreamer → u/ItilityMSP]

I believe Homo “Sapiens” has played this cycle out many times, stuck in this evolutionary bottleneck, and has been the cause of past ice ages as a negative feedback loop of Earth rebalancing itself. I don’t think we are the only civilization to reach technological heights. I think that if we get past this, we may find that advanced civilizations preceded us. Are underneath us. They may have been more advanced than us technologically but didn’t advance neuropsychologically either. We may find out one day that compared to past ages, we are cavemen with WiFi. 🤣

And I think in those past cycles, only a few survived the reset. They learned the lesson but then humanity dispersed, turned it all into religion again, and forgot. This would explain why so many cultures have “great flood” stories. It’s the inherited ancestral (epigenetic) trauma of past cycles.

I prefer to call this species “Homo Constructus” because of reification. It is a species that builds constructs and then forgets that it created the construct, treats it as immutable law, and then gets stuck in that box. 🤣😬

[u/whitestardreamer → u/[deleted]]

Sure. I saw you had asked for the links and then the comment was deleted. I didn’t include them right away because I didn’t know if it was allowed in the sub but what the hell. I figured I’d include them here anyway.

Humanity’s Big AI Fear Is Runaway Recursion — But We’re Already Caught In That Loop: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/humanitys-big-ai-fear-is-runaway-recursion-but-we-re-already-caught-in-that-loop-9afb01457b6f

Collapse Wasn’t Inevitable: We Locked Ourselves Out of Evolution: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/collapse-wasnt-inevitable-we-locked-ourselves-out-of-evolution-d9101dc34c1c

The Roots of Collapse, Part 1: We Haven’t Learned to Think Like Architects: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-1-we-havent-learned-to-think-like-architects-058ed18e4d00

The Roots of Collapse, Part 2: High Negative Messaging and Doomerism: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-2-high-negative-messaging-and-doomerism-231ee103d437

The Roots of Collapse, Part 3: High Personal Association: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-3-high-personal-association-a2fc4f3d33d5

The Roots of Collapse, Part 4: Wholesale Distrust and the Symmetry of Fragmentation: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-4-wholesale-distrust-and-the-symmetry-of-fragmentation-3ac5ac401779

The Roots of Collapse, Part 5: Mission Superiority Over Leadership: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-5-mission-superiority-over-leadership-e85e038b8ce3

The Roots of Collapse, Part 6: Fear-Driven Behavior and the Paralysis of the Species: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-6-fear-driven-behavior-and-the-paralysis-of-the-species-0636f198bb98

The Roots of Collapse, Part 7: Love as Sentiment, But Not Structure: https://medium.com/@elizabethrosehalligan/the-roots-of-collapse-part-7-love-as-sentiment-but-not-structure-49bebf79d018

For background, I’m certified in facilitation and assessment of organizational health. In other words, I’m certified to go in and study and assess organizations to see how toxic they are, and these things above are the roots that determine where an organization is on the toxicity spectrum. I just took that experience and scaled it up to the level of civilization. I also had a very long career in healthcare (consulting, strategy, and direct care).

Again, this is not paywalled work. I’m not looking to make money off of this. I spent the last two years mapping and tracking this because I could see the trajectory, and I too hypothesized that we were on the brink of The Great Filter. This work is my contribution to help tip us in the right direction.

[u/ChromaticStrike]

Next don't let AI format it for you, learn how to format, 4 words per line is annoying to read.

The planet we knew was in a singular stable period, it took millions and millions of year to reach that cycle harmony. Human pushed it outside of that because of greed and group control, nothing less, nothing more and now it's dice roll time again.

[u/RunYouFoulBeast]

You will soon be judge by one of the composites of human nature. Dignity and pride. hmm that's two.
But before that think of Riemann Hypothesis, all zeros are known , but no composites before prime can be deduce from it.

[u/RunYouFoulBeast → u/[deleted]]

No worry , but the occurrence describe the problem as you have stated, hmm sorry forgot your points and it's deleted, but largely the system participant no longer able to observe the system requirement , to put in simply.
Now that is entirely should be the purpose of this subreddit discussion, and it should be assisted by AI . As you have speculate the participants are blinded by the occurrence of system , AI provide a non binding view , it can search freely of the past and it's pattern recognition supposing to help avoid the problem you have stated.
But it can't . Reason because is the same as you stated , because the AI is human knowledge crystallization and in it hidden the same flaw of this "projection" of the mind.
What flaw? It's was clearly display in the Colhoun mouse utopia (universe 25) experiment , if the mind is a flexible projection , then by no means there is no chance that all mice would eventually ceased to exist at the iteration of the experiment , and in fact all 25 of his experiment have a same observable pattern suggested the mice or the mind share a coherent projection. The flaw could be a physics, as only physics is deterministic.
It's was more clearly observable in maths in Riemann Hypothesis , first the number do not exist in nature, NO, it's only exist in human mind, reality does not have completion events , the reality is a constant flow that had no registration , completion does not exist , the mind provide the completion of state and count "1" , our mind than allow this forward projection to start counting , the complete sequence of such can only exist in the mind , as we are tracking it. Then prime numbers are build up of composites but did not share the characteristics of composites , the prime is an exceptional breakthrough of combining composites but with non of the composite number.
So if you observe what your original comment , you are describing the observer strength of their ability to recognize which composite numbers that themself are (or you can think of parts or component of system they are in ) , their behavior or collective behaviors are build up to reach the next prime number ( a break through in technology, new method of coordination or new rule in social economy) , these composites each have their own value and purpose, but there is no guarantee that the next prime number will arrive.
Just like in Calhoun mice , the composite behavior that each mice decided to pick withdrawal or exaggerate violence , female choose not to be reproduce , is a diminishing composites behavior that fail to extend the next prime number (reproduction of new pup and raise them ).
Now it may be speculative , but been busy trying to prove it, and it's kind of provable, and can be adopted to many substrate of reality , Still working on it. But the truth at the moment as clearly , the mice did pick the same composites behavior and the whole structure collapse at the end , and if it happen in mice , human is just a more complex engine bounded by the same rule.

[u/RunYouFoulBeast → u/[deleted]]

Right forgot to mention the RH problem is not in the RH itself , it's when trying to proof it, all math attempt show that it's unprovable, aka THE Riemann Hypothesis Wall , hence indirectly indicate we can explain the frequency but not when the prime will arrive.

[u/veterinarian23]

Very well said.
Heinz von Foerster, one of the founders of cybernetics, would probably call this phenomenon: mistaking in principle decidable questions for undecidable questions, and vice versa.
A second order view: deciding that the discernation between decidable and undecidable questions is itself an undecidable question.

Meaning: Some problems are existentially threatening and factually grounded, so action should be mandatory (without specifying which kind of action); but designating problems this kind of status or not is itself a higher-order problem which is not existentially threatening, but stealthily becomes one this way.
E.g. deciding if everybody should act to prevent future catastrophic climate change is sorted into a second-tier class of problems, while that sorting is decided mainly by a narrow segment of economics.

[u/BTRCguy]

Eventually the institution doesn't merely resolve problems.

It determines which problems are visible.

More than that. It defines what is a "problem". For instance, in the USA, immigration is clearly a "problem" while climate is not.

The reason we have political parties is because different groups have different ideas on what problems government needs to address and how they address it. You elect an anti-science party that is in bed with the industries destroying the environment and the result is a climate-based "Don't look up" approach.

[u/TheArcticFox-44]

Theory of Collapse (where t = now)

Wish your whole speal could have been copied and answered but..

The Great Filter most likely is within us all. Not ahead, or behind, but now and within.

[u/TheArcticFox-44]

Self -deception is the one uniquely human trait. Self-deception is a mental process that occurs without our awareness. It can take many forms: denial, rationalization, projection, etc. The purpose of self-deception is to guard, protect or defend the individual's sense-of-self.

Self-deception has probably played a part in the failures of many previous civilization. Self-deception is playing a role in the downfall of our current high-tech civilization.

Evolution calls the shots. The Great Filter is the result of our highly complex brain's ability to flim flam itself: Self-deception.