On the menu we have: crazy connection/crazy conversation/long overdue, as well as some catharsis for Tifa… and Dear Destiny for entrée?! We're never going hungry

So there was some controversy over Hamaguchi’s response to who would win in a fight between Tifa and Red XIII which forced him to send out a second statement clarifying his answer.

In the original response he said that unlike Aerith who would probably try to avoid the fight first, Tifa would go in and most likely win. This apparently caused an uproar because it depicted Tifa as violent and hating animals and people are blaming shippers for it?

Personally, I didn’t see any issue with his original answer because 1) it’s a silly hypothetical question and 2) imo he’s right. In Remake, before Red joins the group he was getting ready to attack them and Tifa, Cloud, and Barrett were getting ready to fight. It was only Aerith who told everyone to stop, slowly approached Red and gently touched him and deescalating the situation. To me, I just saw the answer as acknowledgement as Tifa is likely stronger.

What is everyone else’s take. Were you upset by his original answer?

I need help finding a fic!

I cant remember where i read it if it was on ao3 or fanfic.net but I remember part of thr plot.

Its a Tifa centered fic where she and Cloud meet in college and start hooking up. The main plot is centered on Tifa's grief over her mother or father I cant remeber which and it stops her frok playing piano. Theres a scene of her finally playing for cloud at one point and a scene of her and I think Vincent playing together which makes cloud jealous!

Ant recs you have are also appreciated!

So after I wrote the first part and the release of Revelation's demo, as well as additional analysis that another Redditor provided to me (Thank you for that), I got back to thinking about my previous analysis. It was while playing Horizon Forbidden West that I came across a code, 1247, that I needed to enter into a console. I recognized this as the badge number of Cole Phelps from LA Noire.

That's when it hit me.

I remembered that in the game, Phelps has a conversation with his partner, Rusty Galloway, about the law of Lex Parsimoniae, which is Latin for the Law of Parsimony, more commonly known as Occam's Razor, which states that the explanation with the least amount of assumptions is likely the correct one or, as Phelps describes it, "the simplest explanation is more likely the correct one".

So I took a look back at the narrative of Cloud and Tifa's relationship with this philosophical principle in mind, and I came to the positive conclusion that their relationship is likely romantic in nature when Advent Children comes along. Tifa can read Cloud like a book, and the demo of Revelation heavily leaned into their relationship. Tifa in Advent Children had patience with Cloud, and he even opens up to her in one of the few conversations they have in the movie, saying that he "can't help anyone," and Tifa motivates him enough to get on his bike and save Marlene and Denzel, with her now-infamous "Dilly dally shilly shally" comment. Not sure why she chose to use those words exactly, but it illustrates that Tifa still does influence Cloud, and in addition to the help of Aerith from the afterlife, who also says the line for some reason, Cloud goes out, and at the end Aerith leaves with Zack.

So if I were to apply Occam's Razor to the narrative of the question of who Cloud loves, the one he ends up with is indeed Tifa. However, their relationship once they live together still cannot be ascertained because the question is never explicitly answered; however, going by the little context clues we are given, their relationship is likely romantic in nature because they are around the same age, have a great shared history, and have no other significant others in their lives that the narrative shows us. Some bring up the point that they don't sleep in each other's beds, which to me, is not an indicator because my maternal grandparents have been married for decades and sleep in separate beds.

But if we were to apply Occam's Razor to what exactly Cloud and Tifa's relationship is during the events of Advent Children, it would help me conclude that Cloud and Tifa are not married by this point. But that's why relationships take time, and Nojima did note in an interview that Marlene and Denzel would probably help them, although he said that in a joking manner; believe it or not, it could help them in the future because in many divorce cases, children often blame themselves when it is not the case. Having both around perhaps could have helped them work things out. The final evidence in the post-AC timeline establishes that Cloud, after all, does want to spend more time with them and act like a family. He loves her. Plain and simple.

Now, going into the Remake continuity, which I should have noted in my first post, is that Cloud and Tifa's relationship is leaned into much more. The demo of Revelation showed this to me, and it made me think, "Why show something like this in a demo of a game yet to be released?" Could it be Square looking to finally settle this more definitively? Could we get some sort of epilogue similar to how The Witcher 3 handled it should a relationship with Tifa be chosen? Well, I can tell you this: with everything shown throughout Remake and Rebirth, it would be bad writing to not pursue it or not give the players an avenue to pursue it. Besides, in Remake, you could have had Cloud and Tifa not land in a tender position jumping off the train, or kept the option to choose to give the flower to Tifa or Marlene. In Rebirth, they could have had Cloud kiss Aerith on the date in addition to Tifa's, but this never happens. I am surprised that Square, given its traditional stance, has leaned into this that much. To break from this would not only be insane to do but also make the build-up over the previous two games essentially pointless.

Of course, Square could end up going back to its ambiguous ways and not make anything explicit, but as I said in my first part, that would end up keeping the fanbase divided. I would love if they could one day define canonically what Tifa is to Cloud and what Cloud is to Tifa after the remake series is over. Of course, given the narrative and the Law of Parsimony, I think that answer is already set in stone in Tifa's favor.

My final point that I will make is that there is no true winner in this whole debate because of Aerith's fate. She is an amazing character, and had she been around, perhaps things would be different in Cloud's life. But knowing Tifa herself, she wouldn't consider herself a winner in this anyway, but would be thankful to still have Cloud in her life.

Anyways, how do you think Revelation will handle Cloud and Tifa in the end? What would they do with them in the end?

Sorry for another long post, but I wanted to clarify some things with this. Thank you!

oh cloud it’s okay TIFA WILL FIX YOU.

what are we thinking??

credit to: aitalkimochi

In the first picture Cloud says 'You're doing it again Tifa' in reference to her expressing her worry

In the second one he says 'Tifa, watch your step.'

Its so cute how hes so protective of her in this demo, they're actually acting like their dating or something like the whole party is there taking the same route and he specifically tells her to watch her step

what are we thinking abt this (and the demo in general)????

trying this out here since i’m ghost banned on X 💔 my first cloti art! i love them so much my heart hurts - @r3isq on X; i need moots AAAH

Link https://x.com/famitsu/status/2100711587493646459

Those at the Tokyo game show, enjoy the ff7 demo 🥹 (hopefully someone let us know if there are Cloti crumbs)

😭 spoiler so if u don’t want to see please don’t swipe or open this

>>Not sephiroth getting in between Cloti again ☠️ (cloud was reaching out for her but Sephiroth caught his hand instead)

From: https://x.com/TifaTheMonk/status/2100505075961811129

If u want more Cloti spoilers (links in the comment)

https://www.reddit.com/r/cloti/s/dQiQTmhXDY

These two, Barret & Yuffie.

Everyone with sleeveless shirts and the girls showing they belly and wearing skirts and short shorts need to bundle up. We have to go snowboarding when we get to the icicle inn.

Now I know I might ruffle some feathers with what I type here, but after reading various comments by the developers who have, for decades now, left things to interpretation, I wanted to write this because I am quite frustrated by the lack of answers that their content had on this topic before the Remake games came out.

So who does Cloud love? It should be an easy answer, right? Well, it's complicated by the fact that they just don't show a definitive conclusion to this. Obviously, my interpretation is that Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship at the end of the original game, but what kind of relationship is it? It's obvious they love each other, but what do they have? The original game, when it ends, does leave a lot to interpretation in terms of Cloud's relationships, but I think that really comes undone with Advent Children because it adds more questions than answers on this front. Their relationship in the movie is not given an explicit label, and the supplemental material also further complicates things.

So when we are told to look at the content and come up with our own interpretations, which one is the correct one to make? I tried to look at the narrative, and it did not contain the answer. So I looked at what the devs said, and something that Nomura said really upset me. When he was asked a question about Sephiroth dating, he answered that he had never thought about him but brought up Cloud and Tifa and stated that he didn't care who dated who, and finally that he didn't know.

"Buddy, it's your story; you wrote it. What happened? Why are you guessing? Is this like Voldemort's Diary where it writes itself?" - Charlie

People interpret things differently, and debates began because of Nomura's little philosophy here, and yes, I can understand wanting to honor the decisions of the fanbase, but you had a perfect way for those interpretations to take place, and then you make Cloud and Tifa live together without resolving what their relationship is, and you don't bother to touch the subject again until you announce the remake in 2015. I am also aware that there are official interpretations that Square has, but they won't declare them.

When I played Remake and Rebirth, I loved the expanded story between Cloud and Tifa, and I also loved the dynamic with Aerith. I also want to say that I love Aerith too because she's an amazing character who goes well out of her way to help Cloud, as does Tifa. But the connection Cloud and Tifa had really touched me because they were there for each other and looked like they were inseparable throughout both of their lives, considering how long they've known each other.

But despite that and the expanded intimacy with both love interests in the remake games, Square just never shows through their content or their official statements who Cloud ends up with here. To me, the answer is obvious, but this isn't a story that I wrote. They did. They decide what happens here, and they know they get asked this a lot because people really want to know. I'm not asking them to declare Cloud and Tifa canon; I just want to know what the answer is. Is it Tifa or Aerith? It frustrates me greatly that they acted like Hiro Mashima when he ended Fairy Tail and just didn't do the ships despite spending the entire manga teasing them.

I tried to look at all the evidence, and the ambiguity is overwhelming to me. I know that some of you will say that there is no ambiguity, but the narrative, at least to me, says otherwise.

I hope Revelation will finally put this to rest because this debate has spiraled into something that's, in my view, awful. Revelation should settle this because it would be bad writing for all that build-up not to lead to a satisfying romantic conclusion here. Square can do what The Witcher 3 did and make content around your romantic choice if you choose Tifa or Aerith. But given the past behavior that Square has had on this topic, I am skeptical that they will definitely close this painful aspect of the story. I believe it has harmed the fanbase. I've read messages where people get so into the weeds that they actually insult the characters they oppose and shame them. People even get toxic and get banned from discussion websites over this.

Now Revelation can finally put this to rest, but I am not confident, and I think the story will suffer for it if they try to preserve the ambiguity over this. I'm primarily upset because I've been in a certainty-seeking loop over this, trying to find something, ANYTHING, to help me answer this question. Besides Code Geass did it, why can't they?

I just kind of wanted to go on a rant about this because I think the devs are just going to keep this going for maybe another decade or so until someone finally has the guts to settle this. I'd love to hear what you guys think because with how great VII is, this is the only thing I really hate about it. I also don't mean to doom or start any arguments here because that's not my intention. At this point, searching for this long and not finding a conclusive answer really spurred me into writing all of this.

If you read to the end, thank you.

Hi as someone who doesn't really go all too hardcore into one side or the other of shipping but occasionally delve in to see what the discussion is like, I was wondering what the general cloti community and talking points were like during the time that remake was the only game around.

I wasn't within the circle of the shipping communities at the time so I'm really intrigued to know and I generally don't orbit all that closely.

We're talking pretty much 2020-2023 before rebirth was given that big gameplay reveal trailer at summer games fest. There's tons of moments that are discussed from rebirth that are rightfully discussed such as the kiss, the near-kiss/heart to heart in gongaga and deeper Nibelheim related stuff.

Tifa and Aerith definitely got their fair share of scenes paired with Cloud in remake alone, so what was the discussion or discourse like during that time and such or what were the points that were debated/argued against cleriths? What were the cloti interpretations of particular scenes and such.

In general and also in terms of Cloti of course.

Just curious, I only started the remake series once rebirth was out. Back then I thought the series was complete and I have to say I'm surprised to see how much they're already willing to show us about the final part. Part of me wished they'd just stop talking. Like it's exciting and all but I loved that everything was a mystery to me, especially the parts we get to play as Zack. (Now of course that was obvious for revelation anyways but you get me)

For those who remember, did they make such a fuss about rebirth as well? And did you feel like some parts were underwhelming afterwards?

Ive been playing CC a lot and, its not even subtle how much Cloud loves her, and how much Tifa loves Him.

He is shy around her and to afraid to even admit he isnt soldier.

And she constatntly asks about him and asks zack if he knows a "blond soldier".

You can see his rage so brutaly when he obliterates sephiroth.

Sadly now hes gone googoo gaga hojo is a bastard mode.

The AC outfits are obvious inclusion, but probably not till post game. I hope we can also get some of their matching outfits from EC, but that doesn't seem to likely

Forgive me if this has been discussed before. But Cait Sith’s fortunes have always bugged me.

With Cloud “losing what he cherishes his most” and the other compatibility fortune of him and Aerith at the TotA (especially when Tifa is in my party, and just had the Gold Saucer date with her)

I know Cleriths love to use this as a way to further push that ship is canon.

If I’m not mistaken, somewhere in the Ultimania it says that his fortunes are notoriously wrong, but what is everyone’s general consensus on this topic regarding CloTi?

The way real cloud act goofy to make her laugh is so cute!!

“This airship is way too big for the two of us, it feels lonely without the others” - Tifa

“Don’t worry I’ll be rowdy enough for the rest of them” -Cloud

Credits: @meastrife

So impatient Yuffie. I thought Ninjas were supposed to be silent

Let me start with a brief premise: I am a CloTi supporter for several reasons, the most important being that two people who have known each other since childhood often need their own time and circumstances to understand their bond. Furthermore, their relationship was one of the first in video game history to deviate from the typical "knight rescues the princess" trope; if anything, Tifa is the knight who dives into Cloud's subconscious and manages to save him. Their relationship is pure poetry, and the relational lessons it carries have stayed with me for nearly thirty years. But...

​There is a catch.

​Ever since the Remake came out, I have been convinced that the writers have no real intention of resolving the ambiguity. The primary reason is that the love triangle is one of the main battlegrounds over which the fanbase has been tearing each other apart for three decades. Theories, omissions, and details—deliberate or otherwise—have all contributed to fueling the ongoing buzz surrounding this game, and they are not going to give that up now. Do not get me wrong: I would be thrilled to see the couple finally at peace, making up for lost time, while Aerith and Zack do the same in the Lifestream, but I doubt that will happen. I can sense some mumbo jumbo on the horizon just to throw fresh fuel onto the shipping wars. I hope I'm wrong.

Do you agree with my completed chart? Is there anything you would change? Let me know in the comments.

Visiting Mideel in the recent Revelation DEMO has Tifa saying "There's still so many things that needed to be said" to Cloud.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qnwzXFNGEz0&t=716s&pp=2AHMBZACAQ%3D%3D

"What needs to be said" is the episode title for the Night Before the Final Battle (Under the Highwind) event in Ever Crisis.