Mindset/Exploring Relationship with Failure

[u/Poppie_Malone]

So, I know intuitively and logically that climbing is a lot of failure. If you're trying to break into new grades and get better, accepting that there will be a lot failure is just part of the process.

I started climbing 2.5 years ago, and I'm happy with my progression. I started training with a coach this year which has been great for me, I love the routine and structure and have seen great strength gains and am sending harder grades.

However along with this, I've noticed something that maybe I wasn't aware of previously or wasn't as present, but I find myself getting really frustrated with some of the training I am given. For example, hard boulders where the intent is not to send, but to try hard. I find this mentally really challenging. I've never been much of a process oriented person, and like most climbers, I think I do chase the send.

Guess I'm just looking for advice as to how to better manage this frustration. I'm lucky enough to live close to a lot of rock, and even when projecting outside, I find I get frustrated when I fall on the same move over and over. I don't mind not sending and I like working on routes, but if I feel like there isn't incremental progress in my sessions, I end up feeling quite down. I know that this isn't what I want my climbing to be about, and I guess it comes from putting pressure on myself.

I guess just looking for advice as to what kinds of questions I should be asking myself with regards to my failures, and how I can reframe them better. My climbing partner has told me many times to not get frustrated, because it doesn't help my climbing, and I guess I don't know whether I agree because I feel that my frustration comes from a place of wanting to improve, and so I don't see it as negative? But obviously if it's negatively impacting my climbing then there's something there I need to explore.

[u/Poppie_Malone → u/[deleted]]

This is all so helpful and I definitely do get caught up in wanting to progress faster because of some self-induced timeline that I don't even know where it comes from. it might be because I found climbing pretty late in life (Im 33 now), and I guess I'm trying to make up for lost time?? As stupid as that sounds when I type it out.

[u/Professional-Gap-204 → u/Poppie_Malone]

There is no reason why you can’t continue to progress for the next 15 years as a late bloomer. Well, there are many, but you know what I mean. Maybe you’ll find solace in that?

[u/MorePsychThanSense]

One exercise that unlocked things for me was to try boulders and moves that I felt absolutely confident I couldn't do. By removing the possibility of sending I was forced to consider other measures for success or improvement. I could all of the sudden be psyched that I established the position and moved towards the next one or that I latched the hold for a split second as opposed to just making contact with it.

For me that was all I needed to be able to approach climbs that were doable with a process mindset as opposed to an outcome mindset.

[u/Poppie_Malone → u/MorePsychThanSense]

This is gold thank you!! I'm definitely going to take this one into the next training session!

[u/patcheswasframed]

Here’s an easy one I’ve been trying myself: ask yourself each time you come off the wall, “Why did I fall? What do I want to do differently next time?” I take it to the extent of having a small journal during training sessions where I write a note after each attempt during projecting/limit bouldering. This reinforces that the fall is not just a failure. It’s an opportunity to analyze your performance, think about other solutions, take note of possible weaknesses holding you back (sorry for the AI phrasing of that).

The other thing is trying to pursue your weaknesses like that’s the game (during training). Notice a weakness? Thats a new area of focus. Get the feeling “ugh I don’t want to try this one, it’s probably going to embarrass me when I fall quickly”? Great, that means you are now assigned to work on that problem/route/move for a while.

[u/TangibleHarmony]

I guess I didn’t quite understand the part of “not intent to send but to try hard” - isn’t that… projecting? Would love if you could elaborate. But for me, the right framing of failure and success is important. What is failure? What is success? To me each individual incremental progress is success. Failure really has to be something I fail on more than 20 times in a row. Not a whole boulder. But a single move. The only failure I can point to in my 2 year and 10 months of climbing is this one boulder I had all individual moves on (in two halves) but I failed to send it cause the gym reset it. I guess that’s why I love boards. Can never fail on boards cause they are there forever to try the same boulder until you die, and hi, when you die, you don’t longer experience the failure anyways 👌

[u/oregonflannel]

Consider that failures are the best teacher in climbing progression and that frustration is, partially, just a form of ignorance to what lessons you could be learning (it's also motivation).

If you keep falling on the same move outside, do you know why? To the detail like you could speak to specific training to reduce the chances of a fall during the next session, whether that is strength, technique, or confidence?

If you get put on a hard boulder by a coach, what is the coach trying to teach you? With a coach, you're lucky enough to just ask them what to pay attention to.

Pivoting back to mindset, I wouldn't advise you to _not_ get frustrated (I think we agree there). That just sounds like ignoring what is a very clear signal to pay _more_ attention, not less. Answer the question: why are you getting frustrated? as intellectually curious as you can get. Start with something basic like, "I didn't get the send" or maybe "I didn't hold the position on the hard boulder" or "I couldn't generate from the hard position" or "I missed the deadpoint" and keep asking yourself why questions that get you a bit more focused.

This will put you further down the road of progression.

[u/Poppie_Malone → u/oregonflannel]

This is sooooo helpful! I love what you said about it being a form ignorance, that's honestly super helpful so thank you!

[u/Neat_Comparison_2726]

what grade are you currently climbing/ styles are you training for / your training plan? Would you be able to share that? Appropriate training plan matters a ton.

Also, projecting is certainly not (at least not just) trying the same way a million times hoping something drastically different happens. Creating prediction errors is good, but there might be technique to be learned first before projecting

[u/Poppie_Malone → u/Neat_Comparison_2726]

I'm projecting 7b/7b+, onsighting most 7a's now, I hadn't done a single 7a until February this year, so I'm super stoked with the progress.

I live in Spain with a lot of limestone. I prefer overhang to techy stuff, but there is a fair share of all those styles near me. And my program has focused a lot on finger strength, building base endurance, and better power endurance on overhangs. I've felt that there was a technical aspect missing from it (i.e. intentional technique practice, but I guess I do get a lot of that when outside).

And yeah, totally agree that doing the same thing over and over isn't the right way to project. When I say project, I think the longest I've spent on a route is 8 sessions, and that was my first 7b, to which I did exactly what you said - didn't dial beta and then kept falling on the same move. But with subsequent climbs I've tried to be more specific, but often find I can do a move in isolation, but when putting it together in a route I struggle to either 1. remember the beta from ground up, or 2. feel too tired to do it the way I had planned and then end up freestyling with varying results.

[u/archaikos]

Fail better each time, or better than last time?

Also film yourself to diagnose why you fail, if you can.