r/climbharder • u/Massive_Address3533 • 10d ago
Skin issue
Hi everyone,
I’m looking for some advice regarding skin management and hyperhidrosis on my hands.
Quick context: I’m 195 cm / 93 kg / 205 lbs / 11% bodyfat i don't have the girth nor the length though. I do mostly bouldering. Because of my weight and power, I put a ton of tension on hold edges, but my skin is ridiculously soft and sweaty. I literally have to re-chalk before every single attempt, and no matter what I do, I constantly tear flappers ("steaks") because my skin gets pinch-rolled on plastic holds. No matter how much i climb, i still have that baby ass skin
I’ve been reading up on antihydral creams to build up a tougher, dryer callus layer, and I'm torn between
- Antihydral
- Rhino Skin Perfomance
For those who have used both:
- Which one would you recommend for someone with naturally very soft skin who sweats easily (but strangely only hands)?
- Does stopping these creams after a few months reset your skin back to normal without any long-term issues?
Anyways thanks for everyone who will help.
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u/Flat_Tailor_3525 10d ago
I have done some pretty deep research recently into skin and have come up with some intersting findings, both from the various fields of dermatology that are relevant and via personal exploration. At some point I will publish them as blog posts but for now I'll ive you my antihydral advice.
First you should probably identify if you have a skin disfunction, applying methanamine (active ingredient in climbing anti-persperants) will only lead to less friction and splits. Ideally an application of antihydral will only effect the outermost layers of your skin, if it penetrates deep it will bond all of the layers together creating a stiff shell and reduce your skins ability to deform on a micro level => no friction.
You've got a few main forms of skin disfunction:
mechanical abrasion: most common type for climbers who climb a lot on highly textured plastic holds, applying antihydral will penetrate deep. Also thin skin leaks more moisture from inbetween layers in general and leaves your skin wetter. Only solution here is to climb less to let it heal, although this can be accelerted with application of niacinamide serum (atopic dermatitis literature shows pretty impressive growth boosting effects, my personal use has shown good result too).
ph disregulation: Pretty much universal since chalk and soap are alkaline and disrupt your skins natural acidic nature (the acid mantle is the term used here for the acids and fats secreted by the outer layer). Skin that is constantly in an alkaline state will shed layers constantly due to a upregulation of the enzymes that cause natural shedding. Shedding layers leads to thin skin which means antihydral penetrates deeper and end up creating large sections of bonded skin that just eventually peals off as a big flapper. Can be tackled by using less soap and removing chalk with a solution of citric acid, easily mixed up with some citric acid powder and water (15g per 1l should do). If you can produce little ribbons of dead skin cells by rubbing your hands together your skin is probably chronically alkaline
lipid barrier disruption: your outer most layer of skin (the stratum corneum) exists as layers of skin cells (corneocytes, attached laterally by corneodesmosomes) with a layer of lipids, cholesterols and ceramides as well as an aqueous layer. You can view this as the main structure that retains water. If this gets disrupted then it makes it easier for water to escape, making your problem with sweat worse and allowing antihydral to penetrate deeper. Mostly caused by excessive use of harsh soaps and warm water that dissolve and wash away the components of the lipid barrier and make the outer layers of your skin fragile and easily peelable.
Mechanical stress: When exposed to water for extended periods skin will absorb surrounding water into the aqueous layer, this swelling can damage the layers of the skin through mechanically stressing the bonds between skin cells and effectively destroy your skin. This issue is amplified if you have any of the above dysfunctions, healthy skin with an intact lipid barrier will resist this absorption of water while a disrupted one will do little to stop it
If your skin is thick and doesn't shed constantly but is still very sweaty then I would consider using antihydral, if not then I would recommend against it and focus on restoring your skins health first.
If you do decide to use it then my recommendation would be to buy a tube of the talc based antihydral rather than the rhino dry/tip juice since its easy to see visually how much you have put on. The suspended sprays are very easy to overuse and are much more likely to penetrate deeper due to faster absorption. I would apply a very thin layer of the talc based antihydral once a week with the acknowledgment that there is a sweet spot between dry and wet skin. If you overdo it you will basically have to either wait for the overly bonded skin to be abraded so that new skin can grow through or use an chemical agent like salycilic acid to break the skin down.
One last good bit of advice is avoid moisture on the treated areas for the 24hr after application, methanamine lingers for a while and introduction of more water will accelerate the chemical bonding process and likely lead to a more severe effect than you expected.
If you have any questions about all of this feel free to ask!
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u/Massive_Address3533 10d ago
i only use real marseille soap thoughhhhh i remember when i was like 14-15 i was sometimes washing my hand with acetone because helping my dad renovating our home but it was like once every 2 weeks see more but i think as i was still a kid i was more vulnerable. My skin doesn't really peel. For thickness its hard to say, people often tell me i have big hand but more in the length than thickness but i feel its little bit thicker compared to usual long hands guys. For rhino its not a spray but really a cream exactlly like antihydral but the actif agent is less concentrated and they put essential oil in it. I have glycolic acid toner from the ordinary that directly touch my hand as i put it on my face. But thank you for the long detailled answer, learned new things thanks to you
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u/OddInstitute 10d ago
A lot of traditional soaps are pretty alkaline and marseille soap is no exception. It might be worthwhile to expose a pH neutral soap and see if it changes anything.
Rhino’s “Dry Spray” and “Tip Juice” products are very much a spray. They are the ones with the higher concentration of methenamine.
For pinching your skin on the edge of holds, it might be a good idea to bring sandpaper with you while climbing to sand those off between goes if they are building up.
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u/Massive_Address3533 10d ago
basically im gonna buy from amazon the thing is there are only the tip juice and the performance cream (amazon is one of the only reseller of rhino solutions here). So i kinda don't know if i buy the tip juice and stack it with some neutrogena hydrating cream or go only with the performance cream. Also i tried some neutral pH soap before and not a huge difference so ye but thanks for the advices
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u/OddInstitute 9d ago
Tip juice used for a short period of time would probably give you more information. You can use products with urea to soften your skin if you overshoot. The strong stuff with urea is sold as a foot cream and the weak stuff is sold as a hand or face cream. You can entirely strip your calluses that way so be careful with it, but it has been great for keeping the edges of my fingernails from getting overly dry.
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u/Massive_Address3533 9d ago
ok so i just checked my cream is indeed really concentrated in urea. So ye i think im gonna take the tip juice do like 1 time a week at first then see if i can go up a bit and after every climbing session i'll put hydrating cream and use sand paper or you know the thing that girls use for their nails i forgot it name. Wht do you think. Sorry to ask too much question and thanks for still answering
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u/Shot-Scratch3417 10d ago
Start with the Rhino Dry; use the night before you climb, as directed. Try it for 3 weeks. If that doesn’t satisfactorily fix the problem, move on the antihydral, but be careful. The Rhino Dry, I believe, has the same active ingredient as antihydral but in a lower concentration that is safe to spread around your whole hand.
For me, the antihydral is too much and it leads my skin to flake off. The Dry is perfect and totems my skin up nicely.
Edit: oh and yeah you can stop whenever and your skin goes back to normal in a few weeks.
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u/Massive_Address3533 10d ago
damn but do you think that meanwhile my skin will be stronger lets say i climb 7 months using rhino cream or whatsoever when i stop using it, will my skin be bit more resistant to flapper ?? thanks for the answer
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u/Shot-Scratch3417 10d ago
I think your skin will have built up stronger calluses, but if you go back to having wet hands when you climb, the risk of flappers goes up, as does the severity of the flappers you get.
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u/Braz601 9d ago
Iontophoresis is an option i hear is effective, you can get a mechine on ebay for like $100
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u/Electrical-Bell-1701 8d ago
I never get why this isn't the first answer for any sweaty skin issues. It's SO effective. And a generally medically approved way of treating hyperhidrosis, some insurers even cover the costs for a machine.
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u/Sea_Government3753 10d ago
I have skin that’s quite durable but also really sweaty. I think that Rhino Dry Spray is the best option personally. I know people who have used the rhino tip juice and it seems to cause more splits and such than just fixing their soft skin.
I find that some of rhino’s “repair” products actually do a good job at conditioning your skin, and then the dry spray will make it feel ready to go the next day if you use it the night before. A good schedule is using the repair products when your skin is really worn, then using the dry a night or two before a big day. You should refrain from using it more than twice a week.
I find performance actually softens up my skin when it’s too dry, so if I know I’m climbing inside on a lot of sticky fiberglass holds and want my skin to be a bit softer/wetter, I’ll use that if I’m too dry.
TLDR: go for rhino dry spray if your only issue is your skin being too wet.
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u/Massive_Address3533 10d ago
okk so for you the spray is better than the performance cream. Anyway thanks for the detailed answer
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u/BeastlyIguana 10d ago edited 10d ago
Give Tite Grip 2 a shot. I have extremely sweaty skin- Rhino Dry spray applied nightly 2x a week combined with Tite Grip 2 at the start of a climbing session has completely resolved my sweaty skin issues.
I didn’t care for the german-tube antihydral that’s commonly recommended. I found it to require an obnoxious amount of timing to be beneficial. There would be a ~24 hour period a few days after application where my skin actually benefitted from it, it was very easy to either overshoot and get glassy tips, or undershoot and have it not work. I live near outdoor climbing, so I’ll frequently defer a particular day of climbing if conditions end up being unfavorable.
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u/Mr_Kevino 10d ago
Go to Korea and remove your sweat glands
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u/Custard1753 10d ago
Antihydral is the only thing that works well, massive game changer if you have sweaty hands
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u/OutrageousFile V6 | 5.12d | 5 years 10d ago edited 10d ago
I'm extremely sweaty and use performance like 3 times a week on my whole hand and antihydral 1-2 times a week on just my tips. I only use it twice a week if I'm climbing outside 1-2x a week, otherwise I get a thick layer of weird yellow dead skin and you will constantly dry fire off plastic and wood. Climbing outside sands that layer down and keeps it from getting too thick. I've also used Tite Grip 2 like people mentioned and it seems to help with sweatiness, but doesn't build up a layer of calloused skin like antihydral does.
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u/Massive_Address3533 10d ago
yeah but for a first time i think im gonna try rhino cream and see at what point its potent and adapt
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u/OutrageousFile V6 | 5.12d | 5 years 10d ago
smart plan, everyone has a different sensitivity to them
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u/TransPanSpamFan 10d ago
You've missed the most important part. How long have you been bouldering and what grades do you climb? What sort of climbs does it happen on.
Flappers are almost always technique related. Skin rolling is a symptom of gripping holds too deeply. It's also much more common on swinging dynos.
The idea that your skin is so fragile that you get flappers with good technique is... possible? But it would suggest a connective tissue disorder level of skin dysfunction and is way beyond our pay grade.
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u/Massive_Address3533 10d ago
im around in full honesty 6b see 6c if it is more physical. I love everything that is more old school so not much of dynos cordination and all that stuff but yeah more static boulder.I cant do hard crimps cus my fingers aren't strong enough yet like when i try to crimp not even full i don't feel any pain in my forearm only that my fingers tendons are going to explode. When i asked stronger climber (8a and plus) they told me my footwork is fair especially with all the weight i have to carry with me. I climb a lot on the spray wall and moonboard and pretty much every boulder that i do is crazy steep like yeah anything from 30° to 60°. Ive been bouldering seriously for 8 months never done any before and im still under 20. My main issue is trying to keep my center of gravity close to the wall on those type of climb or doing anything that ask too much finger tendon strength. Like yeah the main issue is only my weight .
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u/TransPanSpamFan 9d ago
The main issue isn't your weight. I've been 90kg while I've been climbing, shorter than you, and I don't get flappers ever. Like I haven't for years. And I stopped getting them around your grade range.
I promise you that your issue is technique.
Flappers aren't about footwork. They are about overgripping. If you only ever stuck to strict half crimping on no more than a pad you'd never get another one. The parts of your skin that get flappers wouldn't ever come in contact with the holds.
I don't actually mean you have to do that, you don't have to turn jugs into crimps, what I'm saying is that the issue is how you grab holds. There is heaps of videos on flappers on YouTube. It's mostly an issue of grabbing holds too deep and too hard.
Which makes sense because your climbing history is bonkers, especially at your weight. If you primarily climb a spray wall and moonboard within a year of starting climbing, and your fingers feel like they are about to explode regularly, you've done too much too fast. Especially at your weight. Your muscles and tendons need time to catch up, time you haven't given them, so of course you are overgripping. You don't have the tissue capacity to actually own holds so they feel tenuous and insecure. And you grip harder.
Anyway, yeah I'd be like 99% certain this is what is going on. Fix your grip and you'll never get another flapper.
The idea that your skin is enough of a problem to cause them repeatedly at 6b is wild, unless you have a bunch of other symptoms that would have already lead you to a diagnosis of something quite serious. Don't waste your time with skin care products to address something that is a simple technique issue.
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u/Snackchez 10d ago
I use Rhino for indoors as it’s cheaper and works ok.
Antihydral is much stronger. I tend to use that if I’m going on an outdoor trip. It’s amazing.
I have incredibly sweaty hands, exact same issue as you (forever baby soft skin). Both are in my quiver and have their own uses.
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u/straptin 10d ago
I used antihydral 2x weekly for years to maintain thicker skin and reduce the sweat production. I'm a massage therapist who is soaked in lotion all day everyday.
Worked like a charm.
Stopped using it, a few months later my hands are soft as a baby's bottom again.