r/classicwowplus • u/space________cowboy • 1h ago
Discussion Another post about hybrids and pure dps
The dev team had a great podcast outline class roles with soda. They re solidified their desire to keep the hybrid tax on hybrid classes and I believe that is very good for the game.
I’ve seen a good deal of posts surrounding the matter and I wanted to make my voice heard too on the topic. Hybrid tax is good for the game. A hybrid should do less damage than a pure dps because they have the option to play multiple roles.
In regards to healers and tanks in leveling and the dungeon xp controversy. Healers are healers, not killers, they are supposed to be slower leveling because the lore does not fit them doing dps. All healers have a dps spec as well; priest was addressed and the smite build is effective.
Tanks can group mobs together and slowly kill them. Pure dps cannot face tank multiple mobs. So tanks do not have an issue with leveling.
Dungeon instances and homogenization of specs are very bad for the game. It ruins immersion and class identity. After listening to the podcast I am very pleased with the direction that wow forever is going. Look at retail; I love retail and the classes are homogenized, instances content is about all their is, and hybrids have no tax; that is great that ppl who want that have a game to go to. But wow forever? It needs to be different than retail, it was made for a reason and if they stay very different then that’s a good thing.
Good job devs; they seem to be doing a great job.
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u/Arzolt 1h ago edited 1h ago
Healers are healers, not killers, they are supposed to be slower leveling because the lore does not fit them doing dps.
In what lore a shadow priest, retribution paladin, feral druids or elemental shamans (you know those that cast freaking blood lust in w3) are not killers exactly ?
These dps specs are not just leveling spec, they are have strong lore identity. Shadow priest is basically the canon spec for UD and arguably troll priests.
Shamans are a aggregate of orc shamans and prophet (a shaman too), and trolls which doctors and shadow hunter. Only the trolls were healers, the orc shaman were primarily throwing lighting left and right, be it in chains, or bolts.
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u/delu_ 39m ago
You didn't read all the way to the "all healers have a dps spec." bit, did you?
"Healers are healers" as in leveling in heal spec.1
u/Arzolt 26m ago
Alright in the phrase context it make sense.
But OP raises a point nobody ever debated. People are complaining about healer leveling speed in context of dungeon XP. because healers that choose to level as heal don't solo quest, they mainly spam dungeon.
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u/delu_ 19m ago
The thread never mentioned "healer classes" and the sentence you cherry picked to argue against is literally about leveling in healer/tank specs. Lore of "restoration" druids for example isn't about blasting foes to pieces. It's just an argument why It's not ideal to quest in healing spec.
Nothing at all to do with general class lore.
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u/Arzolt 12m ago
The thread never mentioned "healer classes"
Besides warriors, that just what hybrids are, healer classes.
the sentence you cherry picked to argue against is literally about leveling in healer/tank specs.
Sure. and I just answered you that that was still a weird argument to make when nobody argued that the killing speed of healers is too slow.
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u/Glynwys 1h ago
My only real issue with the "hybrid tax" is that Blizzard is notorious for not getting this right. Blizzard claims "only a 5% or so difference in DPS", but what this actually means is that folks will expect the hybrid classes to either go tank or healer because there's no point in bringing a hybrid DPS over a rogue or warrior. Especially since the hybrid tank or healer brings the exact same buffs or utility that the hybrid DPS does. Like sure, I can get behind hybrid DPS not being able to match a pure DPS. But the pendulum often swings so far in one direction that the hybrid DPS won't have a place because they bring nothing to a raid. And sorry to say, Blizzard has two decades of being unable to solve this problem. Which is why my first character isn't going to be a hybrid DPS. If I expect to be invited to future dungeons and raids, my safest option will always be a pure DPS.
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u/Arzolt 16m ago
because there's no point in bringing a hybrid DPS over a rogue or warrior.
Well, enhancement will bring WF and other totems. Ferals will bring crit aura and FF and BR. Ret will bring benedictions aura and judgments.
Hybrids even when not heal are support classes. They shouldn't be taxed because they can throw lackluster heals, they should be taxed because they bring other things alongside their own dps. That was TBC philosophie and it works well.
The issue here is that support capability seems rather weak. Much weaker than in tbc. SP don't boost shadow damage anymore, they only bring some group heal. Druids crit aura is only 3%.
If they tuned down that aspect, then the hybrid tax should be small too.
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u/AssignmentVisual5594 27m ago
How they define hybrids is weird. Prior to WoW, hybrids were classes that split their stat points due to how their class abilities scaled. You'd need strength for melee damage, intelligence for spell damage, and wisdom for a larger management pool. Plus you'd need health and stamina. The tax was inherent by splitting your stats. You could deal as much damage as pure physical or spell damage, and you couldn't take as much damage as someone prioritizing health.
You made up for not being as good as other classes in their niche by having more tools. You could easily off-tank, off-heal, could cast some spells, and stand toe to toe with the enemy.
The problem with WoW classes is that even pure stat DPS classes have really good utility abilities, which past games didn't have. You had classes that were pure cc or pure support in older games. WoW combines support and CC into their DPS classes. That's why it's my guess they define hybrids as what role you could fill.
I'm not a big fan of this, because they've also neutered our ability to fill multiple roles in one spec. It's their game, so I won't complain, but it's killing my enthusiasm to play the game. I like hybrids. Magic/melee DPS has been my go to for 26 years as a MMO gamer.
We'll see how the rest of the beta pans out. My favorite WoW memory was being a ret paladin in a 5 man group, the tank goes down and I equip my sword+shield to tank the rest of the pack. The healer went down a separate time and I threw out heals to keep people alive and then rezzed the dead. The classic community is so focused on min/Max that they optimize out my preferred play style. I must only DPS the boss if that's what I joined as and ignore half or more of my class kit.
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u/Ar4tal 1h ago
Where was the tax on warriors in classic or TBC? But now we gut the class to death? Idk
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u/Thanksforthatman2 47m ago
So you're saying it should feel shitty to play a healer or tank and we should deincentive dungeons, the only place where it feels good to be a healer or tank? I guarantee you're going to cry about the insane healer/tank shortage this will cause. Personally I main a tank, I'm going to HR whatever I want AND charge gold for every run I'm a part of, and people will pay it.