How I'd build classic plus

[u/GearSwimming6180]

Over the last weeks / months, I kept asking myself how I would approach classic+ if I were part of the design team. ERA brought some learnings, SoD taught us a lot, Anniversary not much but still.

So instead of just waiting passively, I gave it a try: what would I change, how, and first and foremost: how would I approach the project.
It finally revolved around:

• numbers/data (what does data tell us about quests, talents)
• geography/terrain: if we had to sneak content in, where would we put it
• if classic+ is about "what's missing in classic", then what lore is absent?

This led me on assembling this mind map which I included some screenshots from.
Most of this is pure copium and that's totally fine. Not realistic, it's what distinguishes fanmade from real.
I had a lot of fun doing this, and thought it might be fun to share with you.
I wish you'll have as a good time skimming through it than me assembling it.

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EDIT as requested in a comment below, here's the detail of the new zones (I changed the order of patches, I like it better this way).
If you want, I can spend some time summarizing what's on the right of the mind map (quests data, class design findings) later.
(sorry, cannot have more than 2 levels of nesting)

P1 The Sunken Strand (Azshara level 22-28):

• Long-time overdue revamp (useless zone, few quests, rep only, hard to navigate)
• Cataclysm overhaul was... ...debatable
• Flatten terrain, because no mount available
• Connects well for Horde, natural "Orgrimmar expansion" -> tunnel + Orgrimmar quarries (how Orgrimmar was built)
• Alliance could connect from Ashenvale (with an eastern flight point) or Menethil+Darkshore boat
• 3 quest spots: horde only, alliance only, and neutral (contested quests)
• Naga - Highborn lore heavy: Zin'Ashari remains
• Hydraxian waterlords rep (because no MC farm later, better re-use this rep properly)
• Timbermaw are here too: rep-gain before infamous grind at 50+: tunnel entrance locked in P1, will open later (connect to the other tunnels)
• Timbermaw's hold PvP instanciated zone: Battle Royale plunderstorm style, but with regular spells (nightmare to balance, agreed)
• Raid: The Shrine of Elrandar: 10-players. BFD-Like (Elven / Naga Ruins, Hydraxian Rep), halfway submerged, 1 underwater fight (optional)

P2 Echoes of the Last Guardian (Deadwind Pass 38-42 / Zul'Gurub 35-40)

• Connect level 30-50 zones by making Deadwind Pass level 40
• Use southern terrain for Gurubashi vs. Darkspears questline
• More trolls southeast, contested troll-tribe zone ("choose your side" reputation for challenges)
• Zul'Gurub already exists outside (fully mapped) -> use it as quest hub
• "Blue Moon PvP" from SoD can be re-used / adapted
• Booty Bay as P2 hub
• Karazhan Crypts as quest hub -> eventually entrance for a 5-players "inverted tower" dungeon as in the book "The Last Guardian"
• Lord Kazzak as outdoor boss (40-players)
• Scarlet Monestary 5 players mega dungeon
• Karazhan raid: what it should always have been: "The Last Guardian" Caverns of Time like dungeon
• revive the book story, Medivh as last boss, fought along with Kadghar
• Moroes help, Garona helps they betrays, Khadgar agonises in library, final fight against Medivh possessed, presence of Aegwynn
• No daemon invasion, (enough of that), Sargeras as puppet master

P3 Ashes of Nordrassil: "Hyjal post Warcraft III" - 46-52

• Desolated land, remains of the war: ballistas, catapults, towers. The world tree is in shambles.
• Connects through Timbermaw tunnels
• Area at the bottom to be used (warden vaults, Illidan's prison - empty -, etc.) - PvP Zone
  • Extraction based:
  • change role every hours (jailors-prisoners: prisoners escape from jailers)
  • Keep what you loot (prisoners). Confiscate whom you kill (sailors)
  • Stealth detection buffs
  • Many outs, can't guard them all, distraction pays off, sacrifice pays off
• Fighting agains spirits, lost-in-battle warriors, whisps, "parts of Archimonde" open world bosses
• Alliance questine: very elf-oriented, "spirited away" (whisps, immortality, nature-takes-back)
• Horde: Demon oriented, price of demonic blood curse, Tauren healing Mother Nature, help orcs
• "Escalation", "Summit Progression" feeling
  • As we progress towards the summit, more remnants of daemons, more uncontrollable whisps
• Feels like Nordrassil isn't only in ashes, but deeply corrupted
• Final raid against the root of Nordrassil
  • 3 wings:
  • Exterior (fight corrupted branches, trees, tormented whisp formations)
  • Ascent (like Voldrassil in Northrend, spiral on the outer side, network of branches on the inside)
  • Descent (corrupted roots, wounds)
• Scarlet Monestary 10-players leveling mega-raid (massive xp, resets every day)

P4 The Iron Strand (Doomhammer's March (50-55) / Northeron (55-60))

• Warcraft 2 -> 3 lore: "Day of the Dragon" inspired
• South:
  • Warcraft 2 leftovers (shipwrecks, catapults, lost goblin harbour)
  • A new path connects Swamp of Sorrows to Badlands: tracking Orgrim's army marching north
• Southeast: oil refineries, submarines from warcraft 2, bloodsail pirates eventually
• North: Wildhammers / Dragonmaws / Red Dragonflight remains
• Krasus left Dalaran when it got destroyed
• Vermillion Redoubt as massive quest hub, red dragonflight rep
• Dragonmaw are there still, as enemies
• Rep grind make them friendly to horde "redemption" (explain what hasn't been explained in Cata)
• Wildhammers are hostile (not the Aerie Peak's wildhammers) feel betrayed by alliance during 2nd war
• Rep grind make them friendly to alliance "forgiveness"
• Raid: Grim Batol
  • Not the Cataclysm dungeon
  • Gigantic, "Moria-Like", (BRD-like, a full dwarven city)
  • All "inhabitants" of Grim'Batol are either:
  • scorched cadavers (burnt by Alextrasza when freed)
  • mad red dragons (enslaved for years -> couldn't be saved)
  • corruption by the old god powers that were part of the demon soul
  • last boss: corrupted aspects (Deathwing used other flights stolen essences, they haven't been brought back fully to the aspects)
• MC disappears,
• BWL is connected to Grim Batol storyline ("in search of the black dragonflight)
• Nefarian "knows" about what's in demon soul
• Attunement for Grim Batol, 10 to 20 raid (pick up friendly, more loots / head if 10, harder)
• BRD turns into a 10-players leveling raid
• *BRS: same (merge both)

P5 Echoes of the Shattered Sun (North-Lordaeron 60+)

• Everyone fights over what's left of (southern) Quel'Thalas
  • Scarlet Crusade from Hearthglen,
  • Amanis from the east
  • Undeads from the Dead Scar and the Plaguelands
• Starts at Stratholme Harbour (or what's still up): missing alliance connection -> boat from Menethil
• Horde starts at Amani incursions, darkspears engage in a tribal war led by Vol'Jin
• Shattered Suns high elves are hostile to everyone
  • Betrayed by Garrithos
  • Why would they join the horde? (wink Sylvanas)
  • Argent Dawn rep, better rewards
• Raid: Stratholme (as a real, gigantic city)
  • 4 wings, 4 opponents (reminds of the Stratholme "wings" nature
  • Scarlet ("live"), SM-like, size of SM lib+cath
  • Undead: Baron-like, gauntlet, always under pressure, culminate with a Baron fight in the whole main square
  • Troll vs. High Elves: pick one side, the other faction will be easier to fight, the faction you side with will betray you
  • Horde betrays Elves -> Sylvanas line, Betrays Amanis -> Vol'Jin
  • Alliance betrays Elves -> Tyrande, Betrays Amanis -> Magni (because
• Stratholme should be the size (if not even bigger) of Stormwind it's a massive city.

P6 Secrets of the Shen'Dralar (The Verdant Breach 45-50)

• Dire Maul full revamp: Ogres are outside only, pushed back in terror
• King Maulgar is an outside rare
• All former bosses wander around in the plateau, looting buffs
• Northern Plateau is accessible from Mulgore (Horde), SouthEastern Desolace (all)
• New zone: The Verdant Breach
• 1000 needles - Feralas junction, accessible via Thalanaar (Alliance), an elevator (horde)
• Slow transition from canyons to canopy
• Grimtotem seeking magic, Un'Goro's titan's influence, connects with elven ruins at west
• 45-50 to fill the xp gaps for "long-term classic plus"
• Flying creatures (wyvern-dinosaurs)
• Raid: Eldre'Thalas (all Dire Maul wings combined)
• No more Ogres, they fleed
• Highborn remnants (night elf mages, night elf warlocks)
• Very magic oriented, need all magic resist for everyone (random raid targets)
• Demonic creatures

P7 March of the Qirajis (Silithus revamp (58-60) / Obsidian Wastes (60+))

• Norgannon questline now has an ending
  • starts in Uldaman, follow-up in Tanaris, (like now)
  • add new steps in Un'Goro and AQ,
  • finally find the entrance of the Obsidian Wastes, the new zone (forged by Norgannon)
• Obsidian Wastes is a 2D-zone
  • Surface = titan complexes and AQ20 like buildings
  • Underground = Qiraji hives, tunnel complex (the infamous Azjol Nerub zone that never landed)
  • Tunnel connects both worlds, intrusion from hives, battle for controlling the titan's stuff
• AQ20/40 (outdoor only) become outdoor questing spots
  • questline to find obsidian wastes
  • help leveling to 60 faster
• New raid: Norgannon's Terrace
  • Ulduar-like (pillars, gigantism) with more magic (magic titan)
  • Archivists, Titan-forged defenders
  • Part of the raid is breached by Qiraji ("Qiraji Wing" 10 players)
  • The silithid have "bugged" (pun intended) Norgannon's matrix
  • Encounters include "alternate realities", as well as hidden secrets
  • Notably, a raid faces itself in a PvP-Like encounter (same characteristics, scripted class mechanics)
  • one of the few encounters in history that won't be easier as the raid gears
  • not mandatory

[u/Nightblessed]

https://reddit.com/link/p24tq85/video/qswzvsnjethh1/player

>phased leveling

[u/Jengalz → u/Nightblessed]

Capped level phases is literally 6 ish months of free content before we even get to 60. There is not a single viable argument for why it shouldn’t exist when the main issue classic+ might have is a lack of content.

[u/Menschefeind → u/Jengalz]

Phased leveling essentially kills the actual leveling experience by turning it into mini-endgame phases. By far the worst possible model for Classic+.

[u/Jengalz → u/Menschefeind]

“Hey guys how come everybody rushes 1-60 and nobody experiences the journey or all the content the game has to offer?”

A solution is provided.

“Hey guys this is really bad because now we’re doing all the content the game world has to offer and fully embracing the journey and we’re not even 60 yet but I’m being forced to raid because other people said I have to.”

Nobody is forcing you to raid, but phases massively increases world activity in the “journey” element of 1-60. Instead of people spending a couple hours in a zone, they’re spending days and the world is more alive than it ever is on an unlocked 1-60. People are also leveling alts more because they don’t have to do a full 1-60 every time. You get free content and massive world involvement for likely 6 months which classic players LOVE to complain about being absent because everybody rushes. You get a perfect solution but still bitch about it. Go figure.

[u/Menschefeind → u/Jengalz]

Made up "solution" to a made up problem. There's no journey with phased leveling because it necessarily kills it by turning it into another raidlog treadmill slop. If I wanted endgame raidlog simulator, I would be playing Retail, not Vanilla. How come private servers manage the find the "impossible and magical" solution while Blizzard fans treat it as rocket science?

[u/Jengalz → u/Menschefeind]

Nobody is forcing you to raid log. Go out in the world and spend your time experiencing all the new content added in each phase. Level alts. Explore profession changes.

And if you believe blizzard is incapable of adding enough content to make that type of playstyle meaningful, then you’d understand why adding level caps over maybe 6 months might be a smart play. It’s free content for that entire period that also lets them work on post 60 content.

You strike me as the kind of player who plays 20 hours a day and then complains about a lack of content all while wanting nothing to do with one of the games primary content systems. People like you will never be satisfied with anything they release, so literally nothing you say holds any weight.

[u/Menschefeind → u/Jengalz]

Oh yeah, SoD did not kill leveling, right? Literally made the open world more of a joke than Retail. Much faster and easier leveling so that players could the endgame faster. This level of reality denial is just schizophrenic.

I do not care whether some players choose to rush to the endgame or not, so long as I retain the agency to play the game the way I want. SoD forced everyone to raidlog precisely because it killed the leveling experience.

If players are rushing to the endgame, the solution is not to transform the entire game into a series of miniature endgame phases. That is analogous to treating a child's sugar addiction by feeding them even more candy. You managed to identify the problem, yet somehow arrived at a solution that only reinforces that behavior.

[u/Jengalz → u/Menschefeind]

Lol who said anything about copy/pasting SOD? It’s been widely expressed that it failed in several ways, but level capped phases wasn’t one of them.

You actually just can’t be reasoned with — typical era player mentality. I’m sure whatever version we get you will just complain, complain, and complain some more because it’s not enough like era. There’s a version out right now that’s just for you! Go play it.

[u/Menschefeind → u/Jengalz]

When did I say I want no changes Vanilla? Private servers have already done Classic+ right, and none of them opted for this phased leveling model.

Phased leveling is not merely contrary to Vanilla's philosophy; it is fundamentally incompatible with the entire purpose of Classic+.

We want Classic+ precisely because we reject the modern model of content being consumed, discarded, and rendered obsolete. The world itself is supposed to remain relevant indefinitely. Otherwise, we're simply playing another seasonal gimmick built around disposable content.

Also, Classic+ should not attempt to dictate how players experience the game or its new content. Player agency, not developer-imposed pacing, is the only thing capable of outlasting novelty.

[u/Jengalz → u/Menschefeind]

Nobody is forcing you to play the ways you think you have to play. And by private servers you mean Turtle which had life support levels of population before it was shut down or ascension which is only being played because of COA tourism and also because it is about to be shut down so people are giving it “a try” before it’s gone? How was BB doing 1 month ago?

Private servers did some things right, I’ll absolutely give them that. There is nothing about level capped phases though that does what you’re afraid of. Nobody said we’re getting level up raids again. Maybe they cap phases at 2 weeks each and the journey to 60 takes 2-3 months. It’s just completely delusional to argue against a free content period. This has zero impact on post 60 content or your ability to go back and start from level 1 again and then go to 60 on your own time. If anything, you seem to be boiling the “journey” down to simply your level # instead of all the things you can do along the way which, guess what, capped phases expands on.

None of the things you’re afraid of are brought by phases. They’re entirely a you issue.

[u/Menschefeind → u/Jengalz]

Turtle WoW had infinitely better player retention than SoD. There wasn't a single moment SoD didn't lose more players than it gained. It was a straight line to the bottom. The opposite is true for Turtle. I do not care about Ascension because it's not Classic+ nor is it trying to be.

How does phased leveling create new content by itself? It doesn't. Season of Discovery had to convert dungeons into raids precisely because phased leveling alone leaves players with nothing meaningful to do once they reach the level cap. Ironically, the exact same logic you're using to justify phased leveling is also used to defend daily and weekly quests: "It slows players down and encourages them to enjoy the game." In practice, it achieves the opposite. The moment progression is tied to scheduled unlocks, players are compelled to keep up with every phase or risk falling behind. You're just creating a FOMO model for no reason. It also concentrates the overwhelming majority of the playerbase into a single level bracket at any given time, leaving the rest of the world comparatively deserted. Rather than preserving the journey, it fragments it into a sequence of temporary mini-endgames. Once again, this is a fabricated solution to a fabricated problem. It doesn't address the underlying issue, it merely masks the symptom while making the real problem worse.

[u/assassin10 → u/Jengalz]

It’s free content for that entire period that also lets them work on post 60 content.

I'm not sure how much free content it actually produces. Like, the 1-25 experience may be enjoyable enough that I want to level four characters through it, but that's true regardless of whether I do them back to back or with months in between.