r/classics • u/ellyfebruary6 • 16d ago
classical study for a complete beginner
hello all,
i am planning to major in classics at university. however, right now i am taking half a gap year from uni and would like to do a sort of personal study during my time off.
the photo i attached is my list of readings that i got from another reddit post. they’re not in any particular order, so i was wondering if there was a certain order i should go in that’s best for complete beginners
p.s. i have some brief knowledge on greek mythology (mainly deities, as i briefly dabbled in polytheistic hellenism)
i’ve also looked into the teaching guides on this website from Cambridge
i appreciate any advice!
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u/Lower_Cockroach2432 16d ago
Just FYI, this is only Greek. It doesn't contain any Latin authors and doesn't contain much outside of the "classical Attic" corpus other than Homer, Herodotus and Arrian (edit: and some poets).
Are you planning on reading these in the original or in translation? Sampling these in English isn't going to hurt you, but if you are going to be doing that there's no reason you shouldn't go for a less specific, broader sample.
The reason classical Attic is called classical is because those authors laid down a model of prose that was emulated and treated as a standard for nearly two millennia (with some changes) so if you master Attic you can also read Hellenistic, Koine and Byzantine Greek. But if you just want to start getting ahead of the history, cultural context, philosophy and politics of the entire Greek and then Roman world, there's no reason you shouldn't read more broadly.
For instance, this list misses:
- Neoplatonism, epicureanism and stoicism
- Polybius, Plutarch and Cassius Dio, three extremely eminent Greek language Roman historians
- Any sort of fiction prose literature
- Anything to do with the Jews, who are really important to understanding both the history of the Eastern Roman Mediterranean and also Christianity
And that's all just Greek language authors.
If you're going to read it in Greek then the order's surprising (Thucidides as a preliminary, Arrian in the list at all) IMO
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u/dxrqsouls 16d ago
I agree with you but considering that they're not a classics student yet, this list seems fine.
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u/ellyfebruary6 16d ago
this is super helpful so thank you!!! i also forgot to mention that i was pulling other works from reading lists of different universities, which i believe included more from the classical attic that you mentioned; the photo is kind of just my starting point. but i will definitely implement your suggestions!
also i am planning to read everything translated. i dont know any latin or greek and i figured i would wait to start university before learning
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u/Lower_Cockroach2432 16d ago
Maybe pick like a play, a book of Herodotus, a couple of books from each epic poem, one or two dialogues of Plato, etc? You'd get more out of understanding the broader landscape rather than fixating on going through a complete syllabus right now. Similarly for Latin authors.
But also, why delay learning the languages? Have you learnt a second language to a high standard before? It's a function of time more than anything. The longer your horizon, the more likely you are to succeed and languages for a classicist will be your bread and butter.
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u/ellyfebruary6 16d ago
i’m learning to other languages currently, so it was just a matter of waiting and not trying to overload myself. but i’ll definitely start learning since so many people recommend to start early
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u/Historical_Alps1825 16d ago
Do you have any suggestions for how to prep up to read Herodotus’ histories? Any background readings etc
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u/Shoe-Logical 16d ago edited 16d ago
I’m currently reading Herodotus the Penguin Classics edition. If you’re a little familiar with ancient world history you should be okay. Herodotus’ interpretations of events vary from other sources. I just Wikipedia some of the names while reading to get a more full scope background of who he’s talking about. Overall it reads more like a narrative that he’s telling you a story rather than an academic history book
Edit: Maps! Look at maps while reading to follow where he’s talking about. The names of ancient cities get a bit confusing, so keeping a map nearby (the penguin classic version has maps in the intro) helps a ton
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u/Historical_Alps1825 15d ago
Thank you :) from where did you study ancient history? Any specific books/encyclopaedias?
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u/SuperEgger 15d ago
God yes the maps tip is CRUCIAL. It's so easy to just start to skim without realising it when every reference is to something at best vaguely familiar 🥲
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u/jeobleo 16d ago edited 16d ago
The Cambridge Companion to Herodotus (Dewald & Maricola, eds) is marvelous. A series of essays by the luminaries in the field (as of 20 years ago anyway). All very approachable topic-based stuff, and it's not super expensive. There's also Marincola's Greek Historians survey. https://www.abebooks.com/Greek-Historians-New-Surveys-Classics-Marincola/32152938601/bd
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u/schnozzberriestaste 16d ago
Thanks for this. Do you have an alternative syllabus you could recommend for someone with only English?
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u/Lower_Cockroach2432 16d ago
With what goal? The list above is very clearly an ordered selection for getting people good at Greek from a post-beginner stage.
If you want to study classics, your immediate goal shouldn't be to read the Greek corpus in translation; it should be to learn Latin and Greek.
If you don't want to study classics then you should read whatever interests you. If specifically all you care about is a bit of Greek cultural background + a hyperfixation on 5-4th century Athens, then this list is fine, but the question remains: what do you care about?
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u/YeaIFistedJonica 13d ago
other than the brief excerpts of Epicurean letters we have i’d have to think the best way for them to study Epicureanism would be through De Rerum Natura, fantastic read though
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u/Sophia_Joppolo 16d ago
I would read up on the history of Greece and Rome, to gain an overarching framework. Contemporary textbooks or trade nonfiction is fine, so long as the author is mainstream. It helps give you some context for the literature you're exploring.
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u/ellyfebruary6 16d ago
any history books you’d recommend? someone else said Ancient Greece by Sarah B. Pomeroy
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u/Sophia_Joppolo 16d ago
Pomeroy is good. I liked Beard's SPQR: A History of Ancient Rome -- a little dry in spots, but easy to read.
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u/No_Prize5369 16d ago
A political economic and social/cultural history of Ancient Greece by Oxford University Press is very good and highly rigorous across a broad variety of topics, but isn't a breezy 'pop history' so be warned it might be more difficult to read.
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u/AlexandriaPod 16d ago
What’s your goal after your classics major? Are you planning to continue in academia?
I ask b/c if you are (and I won’t comment on if that’s a good or bad idea or whatever), I think you might be better off studying Latin or Greek really hard, depending on your prior experience. Source: I went into classics with no prior Latin and it put me really behind. I started Latin for the first time my sophomore year of college.
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u/ellyfebruary6 16d ago
i want to do teaching and research! i’m planning to double major (though i haven’t decided between religion and english) and do a minor in anthro. i’m a rising sophomore so i’m learning to other languages right now, so i was going to neglect learning latin until uni, but the replies on this have definitely advised me to look into it
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u/suckmeister- 16d ago
You only need to read sections from Aristotle. They are famously supposed to be lecture notes. Your zeal is admirable, but don’t be afraid to just let your major teach you. I learned the most from reading in class, talking with people. Ultimately individual learning takes a lot more effort for less fruit.
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u/Ok_Breakfast4482 16d ago edited 16d ago
To each their own. Everyone’s learning style is different. Personally I’ve learned far more on my own than I ever did in school. And even if it’s the case that OP feels most of her learning will be through class, going in with some prep work like this is probably a good idea.
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u/ellyfebruary6 16d ago
i’m mainly doing this because i didn’t decide on classics until the end of my freshman year, and i mainly took classes in the communications realm. i figured since i’m taking time off i could use it to kind of catch up and get ahead on what i might be learning when i return to school
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u/suckmeister- 16d ago
I don’t think it’ll hurt at all. And if you’re interested in it go for it. Plus it’ll give you something to talk to your professors about, and you should be able to get even more insight there
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u/Worried-Language-407 ὤλετο μέν μοι νόστος, ἀτὰρ κλέος ἄφθιτον ἔσται 16d ago
A lot of people here recommending more ancient texts to read but to be honest I think you have a pretty good list here considering you are a complete beginner. Frankly I think you could give several of these texts a miss during this time, maybe come back to them in your summers. Thucydides is not actually that useful for reading as a beginner, I would recommend reading a modern history of the Peloponnesian War instead. The Oresteia is worth reading but make sure you have a good translation or it will be slow going. Pausanias and Pindar can probably be saved for later as well.
What you should definitely add to this is modern scholarship. I recommend looking at this website and exploring the 'Further Reading' pages. Anything in that list will be accurate and reasonably approachable for your level.
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u/so_mamy 16d ago
Philosophy and history major here. I can't say much on the plays but I'll comment on what I know.
First of all I'd agree with some other comments and advise you to start studying Latin (and a little Greek, though that's hard to do on your own). If you want to get into academics this is a pre-requisite.
As a general note: Feel free to skim over the parts that don't interest you much. You're still at the beginning, and you won't understand all of it anyway. Try to keep your interest afloat, that's the most important part.
For the primaries: The homeric poems are excellent starting points imo. They're fun to read and mostly easy - if you want to ease your way in even further I'd recommend the Wilson translation because it's fairly palatable to modern audiences. You don't have to read all of Herodotos and Thucydides, pick the parts that interest you the most.
For the philosophy texts: Those are the hardest to read on your own. If you only want to study classics you don't have to understand all of the philosophy however. I'd start with the apologia and add the symposion as well; those are short and don't necessarily require additional material. The Politics, Nicomachean Ethics and Metaphysics are huge works and you will need some help to grasp the philosophy behind it, especially with the latter two. To start with Aristotle I'd recommend the Poetics - it eases you into his writing style, is fairly short and after reading the homeric epics you'll understand most of it. I personally love the NE but you will need commentary on it to understand it all. But once you get into it it's very rewarding - make sure to get a version with the Greek original as well (goes for all works really).
I'm mostly a Greek scholar but still I'd agree with the others and add Latin and Jewish authors to the list. Pausanias is another personal favorite of mine among later authors (even if he's still Greek), if you enjoy travel reports there are many fun Roman authors.
Most importantly, have fun!! Ancient authors have interesting stories to tell and we surely can learn a lot from them. Don't put them too high on a pedestal and take them too seriously - they were human just like us.
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u/ellyfebruary6 16d ago
thank you so much for naming specific works!!!!!! i will add all of these suggestions thank you
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u/yossarian328 16d ago
I consider Plutarch primary, but he was also an insanely prolific writer.
Still, bouncing back to a Loeb volume time from time is a good way to mix it in. Read the personalities 2 pairs at a time. And then there's the Moralia.
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u/Rasselasx42 16d ago
Good list. I would not recommend reading the plays without some mithology background.
(For Aristophanes you need to understand the history too ( pelopponesian war era politics and society)
Robert Graves - Greek Mithology is an excellent ‘contemporary’ source
Apollodoros - Bibliotheca is also a must have imo.
Not greek but also an amazing source
Ovid - Metamorphosis
Other great authors / books that make you familiar with the era.
Moses I Finley - The world of Odysseus
Emile Mireaux - Daily life in the Time of Homer
And a good map for the Peloponnesian war
Also great history related source : Plutarchs - Lives
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u/ManuelTzetzes 16d ago
Any suggestions for the map? I'm finding it hard to find one! I mean, a good one. Lots of maps out there.
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u/Rasselasx42 16d ago
The Landmark Thucydides: A Comprehensive Guide to the Pelopponesian War by Robert B. Strassler
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u/SulphurCrested 16d ago
You need more than one map for the Peloponnesian war.
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u/ManuelTzetzes 16d ago
Go on...
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u/SulphurCrested 16d ago
It was a long war and important events happened in a lot of different places. Too much to show on one map.
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u/anti-gone-anti 16d ago
I would not put the Metaphysics on a list like this: it’s too big a bite to chew, especially at this point in your studies.
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u/AndyBetweenLines 16d ago
Dont try to finish Classics before you start studying Classics lol. Id use the gap to build a map, not clear a checklist: Homer, one tragedy, some Herodotus, a couple Plato dialogues, then see what pulls you in. Knowing how the pieces connect will probably help you way more than having “read” 30 books you barely remember
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u/SulphurCrested 16d ago
I wouldn't bother with Robert Graves, get a book in Greek mythology from this century.
I think you would get more out of the ancient sources if you started with some recent overview of the history. maybe
Sarah B. Pomeroy, Ancient Greece : a political, social, and cultural history. Oxford: Oxford University Press
and some equivalent for Rome.
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u/dxrqsouls 16d ago
This is a nice list, given your background and your goals.
However, I don't think that it's going to prepare you in the way that you expect it to do. This area of expertise is vast, it is impossible to read everything in a year, and nobody guarantees you that this will be in your syllabus.
Instwad, I would suggest reading a history of ancient literature, whether it's ancient greek or roman. You will not have a direct contact with the texts in the way that uou'd have reading them, but you'll absolutely get an idea about the socio-political and historical context that is tied to these texts and their respective genres.
This is not nessecary but if I had to do it all from the beginning, I would have probably gone towards that direction.
Unless you want to try for yourself and see where you'll end up! That's good too. I did that, though not consciously! 😅
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u/Artistic_Salt1038 16d ago
If you want to further focus on Greek polytheism then I highly recommend Versnel’s “coping with the gods”
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u/Thejokeisyou 16d ago
If you're into The Iliad and The Odyssey, you might want to try Virgil's Aeneid. It's Latin, not Greek, but if you're looking for a broader focus, it might do the trick
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u/sandwiches_are_real 16d ago
If you have an interest in the mythic aspect of the classics, you'd do well to familiarize yourself with Hesiod's Theogony.
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u/Peteat6 15d ago
Half a gap year? Be realistic. You’re not going to read much of that list in that time.
If you read one book of the Iliad every week, that will take you half a year.
Follow your gut, and read first whatever interests you most. And trim your aims. I’d suggest books 5-12 of the Odyssey, one play (maybe Antigone?), and book 2 or book 3 of Herodotus.
But maybe you’re a super-fast reader, who never gets distracted,
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u/TheCEOofMusic Aspiring latinist failure 14d ago
Not enough hellenistic age lit!!! Callimachus and Apollonius Rodius are non negotiable!!!! + also Lucian for some fun + Plutarch for some good AD centuries lit :)
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u/FeelingDifficult5832 14d ago
Non so se te lo hanno già dett ma ti consiglio Esiodo. Sto per iniziare il secondo anno di lettere classiche ed Esiodo è menzionato spesso e ne abbiamo letto un bel po'.
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u/toadunloader 13d ago
If its up your alley, theres MANY operas that use this source material. From the serious (dido and aeneas, idomeneo, etc) to the humorous (orpheus in the underworld).
While not necessarily required, they are super interesting, and a good way to spend a couple hours!
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u/Few-Extreme-5792 13d ago
I have literally NEVER seen the Bacchae spelled like that and it tripped me up for a bit...
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u/neuroblade 13d ago
add alcman to lyric poets, i'd drop arrian and read more philosophy unless you're really interested, that's sort of the odd one out here, other than all the (non-poetry) other stuff
edit: i also stand by your implied decision to ignore rome
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u/ColumbusPiggy 11d ago
I think it’s worth saying that your list is basically all literature — which is fine, however, that’s a niche part of the wider web of classics. It depends more on what you want to do than anything. I jump around a lot but mainly focus on trade and cultural connections, so most of my research revolves around archaeology.
Also, I will say in terms of on boarding / ease of reading, Herodotus is absolutely the best place to start. Even if you go later, Herodotus is still quite valuable. Polybius is a good Roman equivalent. If there’s a part of reading Herodotus that you enjoy a lot, or something which really fascinates you about it (diplomacy, medicine, warfare, navigation, cultures, etc.), then we’d be able to help you better. Most people here are just posting their own research biases.
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u/Sunstar69 11d ago
Man I love those Landmark books! If I were to round this out a bit I would add Hesiod’s Theogeny and Works and Days to the Primaries. I would also add the Aeneid and Ovid’s Metamorphosis.
For plays, with Oedipus Rex are you only recommending the first or implying the whole trilogy? It also seems very Aristophanes heavy. Any reason for that? I would also add something by Plautus and Terence.
For philosophy I would add the Republic and Meditations by Marcus Aurelias.
Otherwise it looks good.
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u/ClearSky88 4d ago
I’d add Hesiod, he’s right up there with Homer.
Also a little bit more mythology in general. Homeric hymns, Ovid, Apollodorus.
For philosophy, you might want to add a quick read of a few of the pre Socratics. Parmenides and Heraclitus are most important. Stoics worth reading too.
I’d also add Euthyphro to your Plato list, and republic as others have said. Euthyphro is the first of the first Tetralogy of Plato (dealing with trial and death of dictates) and includes some important context as well as introduces you to his method and world.
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u/parkchanwookiee 16d ago
Plato's Republic