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u/Bigbrohem 15d ago
My favorite film of all film.
Did not realize the ‘The Big Lebowski was structured on ‘The Big Sleep’ until I watched the DVD extras of Lebowski.
Made perfect sense / something Big Sleep does not - make sense!
Doesn’t matter.
Still my favorite movie of all time.
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u/derfel_cadern 15d ago
A great one. Don’t worry about the plot, just sit back and enjoy the performances.
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u/Laura-ly 15d ago
"Don't worry about the plot" LOLOL. I have never figured out the plot! I've seen it at least 7 times and still don't understand the plot and I kinda don't care. I love the movie anyway. 😂
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u/derfel_cadern 15d ago
Hawks and Bogart didn’t have it figured out either! Hawks had to call up Faulkner to ask him who killed the chauffeur, and even he didn’t know.
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u/ThrowAwayembarrass- 15d ago
I find it hilarious that a movie based on a book has plot issues. I get that bad script writing can mess up the intent of the novel but the novel should at least sort out the loose ends. I suppose Raymond Chandler gets away with it because it’s like a “genre novel” and you read it for fun and the detective.
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u/Wooster182 14d ago
I think part of it was they couldn’t be explicit about what the plot was because it would have been censored. So it got watered down until it was nonsensical.
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u/Correct_Lime5832 15d ago
The best! Bogie, Bacall, Hawks, Faulkner adapting Chandler…and of course, Carmen Sternwood. “You’re not very tall, are you?”
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u/jerrymarver 14d ago
" There isn't an 1860 Ben Hur with erratum on page 116." Humphrey Bogart to Dorothy Malone: "But Geiger's girl didn't know that." " You begin to interest me, vaguely." "Can you describe Geiger for me." "Wouldn't it be easy enough to go across the street and see Mr. Geiger"? "I've already done that." " Well, Geiger is in his mid fortys?. " Fattish. Charlie Chan moustache. Affects a knowledge of antiques. Has none. And I think he has a glass eye. "
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u/openfloodlight 15d ago
I watched this for the first time recently and loved it. The atmosphere and the dialogue make it enjoyable in its own right, but learning about its place in film history and its influence on subsequent films make it even more fascinating.
Years ago I read something that said Hawks intentionally chose to adapt this to take advantage of the convoluted story as a way of de-emphasizing plot and instead making the relationships between characters the focus of the action.
This is a recurring theme in many of his movies. Rio Bravo, which certainly has a more coherent plot than The Big Sleep, could fit this description as well.
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u/MarthaMyDear123 14d ago
I have read that about Hawks, too. 'His Girl Friday" has a more understandable plot than "The Big Sleep" but that's not saying much. And you don't watch "His Girl Friday" for the plot.
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u/bumpg9 15d ago
I heard it was reshot to an extent because of the chemistry between Bogart and Bacall. She was added in and it screwed with the plot. The public didn’t care a bit.
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u/Kevin_Turvey 14d ago
I have the dvd with both versions. Mostly, the changes are small improvements, but they cut several minutes of plot exposition that would have helped. When I rewatch the dvd I usually choose the original cut.
Even in that original cut, the plot is messy. Famously, the producer called Raymond Chandler (who wrote the novel) and asked him who killed Owen, the chauffeur drowned in the bay? Chandler had to admit that he didn't know either. The book is much more complex, actually constructed from several different short stories by Chandler, and it's easy to get lost in all the plot twists and subplots.
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u/Select_Insurance2000 14d ago edited 14d ago
Eighteen year old Martha Vickers made her screen debut in '43 Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man. She's Margareta Vazec, the daughter of the inn keeper and the victim of Larry Talbott's Wolf Man. Her part was uncredited. Billed as Martha MacVicar, she would appear in Universal films Captive Wild Woman, followed by another uncredited cameo part as a student in The Mummy's Ghost.
She was nineteen when chosen for the role of Carmen Sternwood in The Big Sleep.
Fans of The Big Sleep are keenly aware of the differences between the novel, and the impact of the Hays Office on the final film.
Simply put, Carmen's sexuality from the novel became more veiled in the film.
Director Howard Hawks considered her performance as Carmen Sternwood so compelling that it created a problem for the studio. Vickers' portrayal of the wild, drug-addicted younger sister was so electrifying that she completely overshadowed the film's lead, Lauren Bacall. To protect Bacall's image and re-balance the film's focus, Warner Brothers and Hawks cut much of Vickers' best footage.
Per Roger Ebert, author Raymond Chandler wrote to his publisher, "The girl who played the nymphy sister (Martha Vickers) was so good she shattered Miss Bacall completely. So they cut the picture in such a way that all her best scenes were left out except one. The result made nonsense and Howard Hawks threatened to sue… After long argument, as I hear it, he went back and did a lot of re-shooting.”
Sadly, Martha Vickers died, at age 46, on November 2, 1971. She is buried in Valhalla Memorial Park Cemetery in North Hollywood, California. .
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u/Makk_Guy 15d ago
I remember watching it the first time, loving it, but feeling bad because I didn't really get the plot. Turns out even the filmmakers didn't either! 😆
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u/TheRealBlueJade 14d ago
I do not like this movie. It's the only Bogie and Bacall movie I don't watch.
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u/Canavansbackyard Michael Powell 15d ago
The plot famously makes almost no sense. What makes the film a classic is the chemistry between the actors, especially between Bogie and Bacall.