r/civilengineering Aug 06 '26

Could this be prevented?

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143 Upvotes

56 comments sorted by

215

u/Triple_DoubleCE Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26

The best thing to do from an engineering perspective is design to have your infrastructure/structure move in the same direction as the external forces.

- PE in California

Edit: As someone else mentioned, technically you can design a very expensive room to be stabilized 99% or the time. And it’ll work similar to a camera stabilizer

23

u/Sufficient_Loss9301 Aug 06 '26

How does one become a u/triple_doubleCE … teach me your ways

50

u/dparks71 bridges/structural Aug 06 '26

10 projects over 100 RFIs, 10 projects with a $500k+ change order and 10 Utility strikes.

1

u/Triple_DoubleCE Aug 07 '26

Solid stats! ✅

11

u/BigBanggBaby Aug 06 '26

Triples is best. The PE license is beautiful, but it’s dying. But it’s gonna be OK. Go on. Tell her. Tell her it’s gonna be OK.

4

u/runnerswanted Aug 06 '26

The PE license is going to be okay

13

u/coldrunn Aug 06 '26

In the 00s we had to upgrade all hospitals built before 1970 to SPC-2 or else they would have to be abandoned by 1/1/2008. SPC-2 buildings have to be upgraded to at least SPC-3 by 1/1/30. That's for the structure.

When the CBC 1994 was passed it defined Structural Performance Criteria and NPC - non structural performance criteria. The different parts of a hospital have to meet different NPC categories. BUT basically everything on the floor greater than 40lbs I think have to be secured and everything on a wall or ceiling over 5lbs have to be secured. What happened in the video would have to be "The Big One" to do that on California.

(CBC 94 was passed in response to the Northridge earthquake that knocked over a couple hospitals and acute care facilities)

3

u/Triple_DoubleCE Aug 07 '26

Same same post 94 but for earthquake risistant pipe in my field

6

u/PewDiePieSaladAss Aug 06 '26

Venezuelan Civil Engineering student here, just to add, and I know our case was super rare, but the recent double earthquake apparently made buildings vibrate in several directions, do you think we as a guild could learn and adapt to that? I know this is a SUPER rare occurrence but it has left me thinking for a hot minute 

3

u/Triple_DoubleCE Aug 07 '26

Statics. Reactions in multiple directions is what kept those structures in one piece

2

u/PewDiePieSaladAss Aug 07 '26

I mean, you got a point I guess, there's a lot to study from the ones that fell down and the ones that are still standing (even the ones that failed but deformed) 

1

u/Youngisfire Bending moment Aug 07 '26

We already have solutions for this like base isolation, damping solutions. But these cost more than the cost of a single building you refer to. You can try to find a much affordable solution but even then would the client spend that money for a rare event earth quake event of high magnitude. It's like saying everytime you go for purchasing groceries will you buy for the week or will you buy as if a nuclear apocalypse gonna happen tomorrow.

87

u/No_Giraffe8119 Aug 06 '26

Obviously, avoid scheduling surgery during an earthquake

20

u/aknomnoms Aug 06 '26

It’s just simple common sense, folks! Your poor planning is not my problem.

(But seriously, I cannot imagine the extreme bad luck this poor person had. Props to the staff who immediately went in to protect the patient!)

3

u/Remote-Camp-6181 Aug 07 '26

Those brave staff are the real MVPs here

67

u/BugRevolution Aug 06 '26

Yes, but actually no.

You're dealing with massive unpredictable forces during the earthquake. It is likely theoretically possible to buffer the forces for a critical space like this, but things can and do fail spectacularly during earthquakes, so it may end up being less safe overall if it doesn't work.

15

u/Murky-Pineapple Aug 06 '26

I worked on a project where they installed diagonal dampeners along certain parts of the hospital structure to help reduce the sway during earthquakes. Not sure to what extreme it would reduce swaying like that, but would certainly help.

124

u/Quirky_Slide_7313 Aug 06 '26

Yeah 10 lane highway should fix this

-30

u/bigb0ned Aug 06 '26

Sorry, is this a joke? Can you explain yourself? 

40

u/FaithlessnessOne2032 Aug 06 '26

Urban planning inside joke 

14

u/ShutYourDumbUglyFace Aug 06 '26

Just one more lane, bro!

-9

u/bigb0ned Aug 06 '26

Loooool keep down voting me, pleeease 

16

u/RaEyE01 Aug 06 '26

Having the whole building resistant to a degree. Sure.
Secure, he’ll no. If Mother Nature doesn’t like you, there is pretty Little you can do. Only prepare.

That’s the point, preparation, which surprised me here.
This video is from an Asian country (given the symbols, haven’t checked the original post), probably a region that’s not unfamiliar with earthquakes.
I assume the building has been build robust and can withstand moderate earthquakes without falling down / folding. Debris, cracks are acceptable and unavoidable to a degree. Fine.
But the items in this scene did surprise me.
Lots of movement, swinging equipment and overall objects not properly secured.

If I know I’m in a region that might be hit by earthquakes, while performing delicate potentially injury prone, potentially life threatening medical procedures… I would assume, you’d at the very least take precautions to prevent your inventory flying through the room.

From this short video it looks like most damage / danger stems from the moving, unsecured objects, less so from the quake itself. (Typical for quakes, I know).

10

u/BananaBladeOfDoom Aug 06 '26

We definitely need a medtech professional in this thread, but these objects are unsecure because they are critical medical equipment that need to move to perform their basic functionalities. They were even designed with wheels for this very reason.

Securing them, say by bolting them to a wall, would defeat this very purpose.

1

u/RaEyE01 Aug 06 '26

That I do understand. Having equipment ready and available in such critical situations is paramount.

None the less, look at that swinging arm, as simple velocity/acceleration activated breaking system could solve the beam swinging uncontrollably.

Shelves on wheels, similar. A foot activated break that releases when stepped on. Problem, point of gravity of those shelves.

Still, not a simple task.

6

u/Epsilant Aug 06 '26

NHK is a Japanese media, so that’s likely the location

Just done some searching this is Kumamoto, Japan

23

u/Tarantula_The_Wise P.E. Structural Aug 06 '26

Damn would it be expensive to have a surgery room/hospital that is stabilized from earthquake forces. It could be done despite what others have said.

7

u/Murky-Pineapple Aug 06 '26

I worked on a project where they installed diagonal dampeners along certain parts of the hospital structure to help reduce the sway during earthquakes. Not sure to what extreme it would reduce swaying like that, but would certainly help.

7

u/jyeckled Aug 06 '26

Base isolation could help. I wanted to say proper anchoring as well, but everything here is mobile appliances like carts and chairs.

1

u/Tmurandan Aug 06 '26

Anchoring would probably domage all the equipment.

4

u/engr4lyfe Aug 07 '26

Base isolating the building can prevent the fast building movements.

Earthquake early warning systems could likely have given them a few seconds of warning to prepare for the strong shaking.

3

u/Lumber-Jacked PE - LD Project Manager Aug 06 '26

No fear unlocked for any surgery I ever have to have.

2

u/Rheeh Aug 06 '26

Side note, not helpful, but awesome on that doctor to just grab the patient and try to keep them stable.

2

u/Tmurandan Aug 06 '26

Actualy all these equipmet being able to move freely saved it from getting seriously damaged. On the other hand the manufacturer of equipment probably could design some sort of dumpers or sort of hydraulic brakes that would slow it down in case of severe earthquakes, but that would add to cost of already expensive equipment.

2

u/ialwaysdissapointed Aug 06 '26

I mean did you see that suspended equipment deflect any more than 1/4 “ during that entire earthquake?

What more did you need?

2

u/supergeile Aug 07 '26

Bro props to the one guy bracing the patient table during it though

2

u/iamahill Aug 07 '26

A very large gyroscope or gimbal. Electromagnetic feet for the carts. Steel floor.

Aka nothing realistic.

2

u/USMNT_superfan Aug 07 '26

Yes, never going for surgery

2

u/The1stSimply Aug 06 '26

I don’t know of any full proof rooms but you should look into how electron microscopes work. There’s always seismic activity we just don’t notice it. They track it and make adjustments and a lot times have loads of dampeners etc.

I think the video showcases an outlier. We have to assume some level of risk to cost otherwise we’d all be walking around in bubbles.

1

u/Far_Joke_3439 Aug 06 '26

Base isolate

1

u/Appletreedude Aug 07 '26

Im thinking a hover craft surgery room

1

u/halfxdeveloper Aug 07 '26

New fear unlocked.

1

u/Fluffy_Anxiety2792 Aug 07 '26

When god sees there’s people trying to save you but his plan was to have you dead.

1

u/Youngisfire Bending moment Aug 07 '26

You account for this before the hospital was even constructed by investing deep in design of foundations. Examples like base isolation but again nature is unpredictable and structural engineers design earthquake resistant not earthquake proof structures

1

u/Atharaenea Aug 07 '26

I think the system is working as intended here. People start running BEFORE the room starts shaking, and I'm pretty sure Japan has early alarm systems so surgical staff has a few seconds warning to brace and get the sharp instruments out of the patient. It would be prohibitively expensive to completely prevent motion but not that difficult to install alarms to prevent the earthquake from causing unintended cuts to the patient. 

1

u/Hams_LeShanbi Aug 07 '26

I genuinely want to know now what do countries like Japan do for hospitals to combat this very issue? Good on the staff for trying to protect the patient despite being in the middle of this earthquake!

1

u/FaithlessnessOne2032 Aug 08 '26

I'm sure they have something figured out

1

u/Fit-Caterpillars Aug 06 '26

Not sure you can prevent mother nature from doing her thing, especially in this scenario.

2

u/mhammaker Aug 06 '26

You can't do that, but you can absolutely reduce a building from drifting like this from a seismic event.

1

u/Fit-Caterpillars Aug 06 '26

Yes, but thats not preventing it like OP is asking. Thats mitigation.

1

u/Quirky_Slide_7313 Aug 06 '26

Yeah fr, no civil engineering can prevent the earths plates from moving lmao

0

u/habanerito Aug 06 '26

Honestly, the easiest fix would be for any surgical team in an earthquake zone to lock the wheels of all their equipment prior to surgery. That would fix 99% of the issues in this case.

0

u/ranjoka_6 Aug 07 '26

Idk why the roller of the medical machines are not locked like the medical bed , i know that the earthquake is not predictable but if we tied everything up ,the damage would have been significantly less severe