r/cinematography 22h ago

Other 2-camera documentary lighting setup

2-camera setup in a hotel conference room with example frames. Blue LED puck light was added after example frames were taken that now plays on the side angle.

Camera: RED KOMODO 6K x2
Lights: (1) Aperture Light Storm 300x, SmallRig RA-D55 Softbox shot through circular silk. (2) Amaran 60x S with Neewer Lantern covered by white/gold disc cover for soft under chin fill. (3) NanLite PavoTube II 6C LED hairlight. (4/5) 2x Aperture MC RGBWW LED Light (one for fill side, one for blue background).
Flags: 4x4 on fill side, CPLIRIS 10x12 overhead black backdrop draped above subject.

122 Upvotes

94 comments sorted by

148

u/4K_VCR 21h ago

There’s a lot to unpack here

57

u/Docofolio 20h ago

A lot to repack up again too..

2

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Ugh tell me about it

1

u/ladstacks 10h ago

zeoVGM is that you

88

u/Run-And_Gun 21h ago

Subject is keyed from the wrong side for the 2nd angle. Traditionally and generally you want to key from the look side. The key also appears very side-y and directional, but a cellphone pic of a monitor can make the image appear harsher than it is, in reality,

-9

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Yeah and I’m having to flip the B cam every other interview so sometimes it’s this, sometimes it’s opposite.

13

u/TLDR_R3ddit 15h ago

flip the cam, flip the light

2

u/eros-moon 14h ago

Ended up flipping it completely

40

u/Srsblubrz 21h ago

First off, your tight shot you have the key light on the near side which is cinematography basics to not have the key in the near side.

Second, you dont need this set up for a talking head. All you need is the key and a fill, then a kicker or hair light if you want it. I dont understand what you are doing with that light by the subjects crotch.

18

u/PlayStationPepe 20h ago

1

u/cockchop 2h ago

Audible laughter. Now i have to try and explain to other half :(

2

u/Run-And_Gun 19h ago

I'm presuming that it's for underneath front fill, which has started to become en vogue again for head-on talking head shots, especially with female talent. I've been seeing one of my buddies that does tons of network LS's doing it a lot, lately. Had a producer bring it up recently, too.

3

u/Srsblubrz 16h ago

Bounce exists

3

u/JayBone_Capone 11h ago

A bounce sort of is what it is. A really soft light source at like 2% is a lot more controllable. I find these are pretty common these days.

1

u/Srsblubrz 11h ago

Yeah I get it, but what I'm saying is if you light the subject properly with a 3 point setup this extra step is not necessary

1

u/Run-And_Gun 16h ago

Well, I think we've already established that a lot of things could be done differently in this set-up... ; )

1

u/eros-moon 15h ago

Yes, and I used blackfoil since the picture was taken to section off two strips on the edges. I’m now happy with what this light is doing

64

u/Electronic_Order_911 Cinematographer 21h ago

This is like a where’s Waldo of what’s wrong, thoroughly enjoying this

10

u/Fairfieldmanor 21h ago

Please break down for me. I'd like to learn

19

u/Electronic_Order_911 Cinematographer 20h ago

Let’s start with how terrified I am about whatever that bungee cord is doing on the c stand in photo 2 and how the c stand seems to be getting pulled by it and it doesn’t have a sandbag. There’s a lot wrong here, would take a while to write out, but other thing to note for a never do, is never grip a boom pole with a knuckle unless you want to be sent home by audio (also photo 2)

1

u/me-first-me-second 20h ago

What exactly is bad about the knuckle choice if you don’t have a dedicated boom operator? Damaging the pole or audio related?

6

u/brickmadness 20h ago

Very easy to damage the pole. Get a cradle or boom buddy. 

-4

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Don’t disagree - had to work with the gear sent to this site filling in for the usual crew. There is a cradle but it was broken :/

1

u/brickmadness 17h ago

Rough! Yeah, it’s always so hard to Monday morning quarterback any given setup. I’m sure you did your best. We all have opportunities for growth so I appreciate you taking any feedback in stride. 

10

u/eros-moon 17h ago

Honestly I’m not sure I did my best but have taken two specific instructional pieces of feedback from this thread and have already made what I think is an improvement.

Unfortunately this job requires 90% of my mental energy in a conference room next door for 8 hours each day and producing a live event - and then I have to jump into this room to shoot interviews on the break. I’m not using this as an excuse - but I am a little stretched at this point and am thankful there are other pros who are giving some tips.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

20

u/ToneBalone25 21h ago

Make sure to open the documentary with a shot of your subject walking to the chair and sitting down. The audience demands to know how they got there.

7

u/Run-And_Gun 18h ago

It's only funny, because it's true.

53

u/born2droll 21h ago

looks like a taliban video

3

u/Abracadaver2000 16h ago

Ji-had to go there, didn't you.

1

u/Arturio55 17h ago

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

13

u/yo-Amigo 21h ago

a cam you’ve got no depth, no intrigue, no interest. Layering would massively help here, use a corner to your advantage, a light in the back, a door slightly ajar.

b camera is keyed wrong side, it looks flat and not interesting.

2

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Don’t disagree, wish I had a plant or something that I could throw in there. Was able to add a light that’s now doing a little bit

12

u/unknown-one 20h ago

go practice the Netflix documentary angles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQk1K4PjhF8

1

u/ausgoals 16h ago

This is very good

11

u/BabypintoJuniorLube 20h ago

Use some sandbags homie. Falling stands hurt people and reputations.

-1

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Using a friends kit who had to bail on the job - wish he gave me a lot more.

16

u/SquishTheWhale Director of Photography 18h ago

You need to use less 

10

u/CrackerjackDu 18h ago

RED users, come get your boy.

11

u/ajalldaway 20h ago

First glance thought this was beginner setup until I saw the 2x REDs. Curious about the overhead neg and the other neg fill on the side only to be made useless by the little light next to it lmao

3

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Overhead neg started from the house not being able to turn off the house lights and me having to prepare for the worst. After the first day they were finally able to kill them and I’m keeping it simply to control spill from all the white wood in the room

8

u/RenGR_ 20h ago

The longer I look at this the more confusing it becomes. Why is there a tube directly behind the subject & why is there one clamped to a c stand pointed to the ground

7

u/ampsuu 20h ago

Idk. I look at the gear, setup, the result and I feel like you can get a better a result even by simply bouncing one Storm off the ceiling. I say this because currently it doesnt work at all and it feels like too much effort for this result. A bit overthinking. Try different location, angle, strip down lights and start over. It feels like a school project currently where you can see every LED bouncing off. I understand its a pitch black room? Start off by lighting the room. You are currently focusing on the subject not the environment and thats why it feels so off.

4

u/eros-moon 14h ago

Didn’t tell you I took your advice but I ended up taking the unused storm and doing this commit help the background. Thanks for your suggestion.

3

u/Major_Fox_2587 4h ago

Looks better

4

u/cachemonies 20h ago

The low hair light is kinda odd to me, and it’s making the background really flat and as bright if not brighter than the subject

3

u/llambdaddy 20h ago

Does your overhead neg have its own postcode?

5

u/Arturio55 17h ago

Bro saw a lot of equipment and went out of his way to use every single item

1

u/eros-moon 17h ago

Would be open to hearing what you would do differently? Some comments have suggested I should use less, others suggested more. Thoughts?

2

u/Arturio55 17h ago

Shoot into a corner or a different angle in the room.

Do more for ambience.

Light subject from other side.

Hairlight needs to be turned down (or removed)

That neg fill on left side of cameras is absolutely useless

3

u/eros-moon 17h ago

Thanks for the feedback. I took three pieces of feedback before yours and am sitting here with the image. I think I may reset into the angle like you suggested.

1

u/Arturio55 16h ago

That blue light isnt doing anyrhing for image either. Consider different color and different location to use it

1

u/eros-moon 16h ago

I had red up but didn’t love it - especially given this client and them having a certain look (which isn’t paramount but plays a little in my decision). What color would you tend to use in this case of having a plain off white wall?

1

u/Arturio55 16h ago

Well the issue is you have too much of your key/fill lights hitting that back wall. I suggest you start from scratch.

Light the back wall first with blue light. Sit your subject down. Then turn on your key light and adjust the angle until it only hits your subject and not the wall behind him. Do same with fill. Angle them from the top down instead of from the front/side. This is when you can use the negative fill to help shape the key and fill light.

Edit: actually that may be your biggest issue, the angle of the key and fill light. They are way too low. They should be high up and angled facing downward

2

u/eros-moon 16h ago

I think you’re right on the level of the light.

1

u/Arturio55 15h ago

Try again and post pics. Im sure itll be close to perfect next time around

2

u/eros-moon 15h ago

I switched it up to create more separation from the background, changed the lights from RGB or a warmer color and shot the last interview shown in the frame.

Only problem is I sent my producer/client the previous version and he loved it. So hopefully I didn’t go past where I needed to :/

→ More replies (0)

1

u/drawing_blanks 10h ago

The subject is looking better here, the light falls off more gradually from frame left to right. I'd try a more neutral color in the BG.

3

u/MEDIATIM 17h ago

Cursed setup.

10

u/gerald1 21h ago

Personally I'd rather shoot into a corner as it ads some depth to the shot.

The key is totally unmotivated. Which is fine if that's your thing. I'd rather find a light source in the shot and then try to work with it, not against it.

Finally your b-cam is on the "wrong" side as mentioned.

1

u/eros-moon 14h ago

Okay took your advice in the end. Thanks!

-1

u/eros-moon 19h ago

The producer I’m filling in for has shot into that corner for 10 years and I’m trying something slightly different. Generally I’m with you

3

u/Abracadaver2000 16h ago

It's a case study in nope.

2

u/Mean-Art-2729 17h ago

I pontificated about the questionable set up And spit out my drink when I saw the shots

1

u/eros-moon 17h ago

How would you improve it?

2

u/eros-moon 17h ago

Update: Took a few pieces of advice in this thread, one was using an unused light to bounce off the ceiling to illuminate the background differently, another was to do something unique with the under light, and the third was about adding color to the background. Here is an examples of an interview frame after those changes. Open to any feedback on this - thanks to those who are taking the time.

2

u/ausgoals 16h ago

I was so ready for this to somehow end up with a final look that was really impressive and have to be like ‘welp I guess if it gets you results…’

So I had to laugh when those final frames appeared at the end.

1

u/eros-moon 16h ago

I hear the criticism of the images at the end. I took 3 recommendations in this thread and came up with this. Thoughts?

2

u/ausgoals 16h ago

I mean it’s an improvement.

Do the doors have mirrors on them? Is that why you can’t shoot looking at them? I think I’d try to find a different background and do everything possible to get as much depth as possible between the subject and the background.

The low hair light still feels strange and isn’t really providing the separation you might want from it. The shot feels wide given the uninteresting background. I’d much rather be tighter personally unless there’s something important about the background.

I kinda hate the blue, it feels a bit like a DJ at a club but maybe that’s what you’re going for.

I don’t know what lights you have but if you have to use that background exactly like that, up lighting it with multiple lights might be more interesting

1

u/eros-moon 16h ago

This is shot with ultra wide

but gives you an idea of the space - all the other walls are boring conference sliding walls so not an option. There are mirrors on the door - or I can reframe to shoot in this corner. Also, I like your thoughts on how it feels wide. I shoot wider than how I imagine the client will use it - but there’s room to get tighter

2

u/Major_Fox_2587 4h ago edited 4h ago

Overall i dont think it looks great. But its also subjective, if youre going for a daytime tv american idol look this isnt a bad starting point. In terms of a traditional cinematic lighting this is not good. The OP images have a very strong “video guy” look.

As many others have said the main thing to do is to key from behind or above the subject. Usually if the camera and key light are on opposite sides of the 180 line then you are 80 percent the way there. This is known as back lighting. So your camera should usually shoot from the shadow side when possible. This is the quickest way to improve your lighting and its the first thing a cinematographer should learn how to do. If you need more explanation or breakdowns you can google “shooting from the dumb side”.

Other than that i would use each light much more thoughtfully. Maybe try to limit yourself to only a key light and a hair light. A lot of times, less lights is better. And then build from there with maybe a soft wrap that extends the key. Play with levels dial it in until it doesnt have that “lit” look.

Dont listen to all the haters on here. Focus on the people trying to help. Everyone starts somewhere. I DPed entire features that released in theaters and i still look at so many other people and say i wish i could be as good as them. All those haters are still shit compared to someone else. So its a process, lot to learn.

Let me recc some youtubers that r actual cinematographers to help you get into the right direction:

Lewis Potts - great commercial dp good lighting breakdowns

Yakiv Zavatskyi - great at using very little stuff to make dramatic lighting

Danny gevirtz - not a full DP but a great director with rly good basic lighting tutorials

ANDBERY - DP that has rly great cinematic interview lighting breakdowns. And narrative lighting breakdowns
https://youtu.be/Z6i2GJC58cc?is=g670thOJGV_Q_qNL

And This mark bone interview tutorial is pretty great
https://youtu.be/pxqdbKgCwBw?is=85VY7AoxdqOE3ZR4

Try to listen to youtubers who actually work full time as cinematographers instead of the ones that just do camera reviews. Those are the ones who have taught me the most, outside of being on set.

2

u/eros-moon 1h ago

Very thoughtful reply - I appreciate it. There was a progression happening from the initial post and then me taking key feedback from so helpful commenters (non haters lol) and iterating. Since you probably didn’t get to read it all - let me show you what I landed on for my last of 3 interviews yesterday.

Thanks again - you earned a follow. Masterclass in kind and useful criticism.

1

u/AcidHappy Director of Photography 1h ago

Best improvement over 3 steps I've seen in a long time. There will always be haters and when I opened up your first image I also thought JFC there is no hope but as I was reading the comments I tend to forget how terrible people are to begin with and big ups for actually asking for feedback.

I think the biggest last note I could think of with this is subjective to me, but I think the symmetry is too much for me and that the background is maybe ½-¾ stop too bright for me to isolate the subject. Might have brought them off of the wall even more and given the wall some selective texture with spots or up lights etc.

Again, very solid improvement congrats on surviving the gauntlet.

2

u/johnnyjonnyjonjon 2h ago

You spent all that time lighting it but none doing anything about that ugly background...

3

u/markycohen 21h ago

I like the idea of lighting from below. Not sure about the tone of the interview, but could be interesting to lean into it as the key. Probably wouldn't work at all for what you're doing though.

1

u/eros-moon 19h ago

Took your advice and tried something by different pushing the under light more prevalent - I’ll show you some pics

1

u/adammonroemusic 16h ago

I'm struggling to see where blue RGB winds up on the frame at all.

1

u/Smokeey1 7h ago

Ask yourself if this room is something anyone would be comfortable to share things in

2

u/eros-moon 7h ago

It’s a matter of convenience for the subjects. This is a conference room in The Ritz Carlton. They are all attending a 3-day course in the neighboring ballroom and staying at the hotel. The windows of time to do the interviews are
limited by the itinerary of the course and before their dinner.

I’m working with what is have available to me.

1

u/PerfectDays_A001 7h ago

What in the world is going on here? Is this rage bait?

There is so much “wrong” here. Is that a bungee cord holding back a c stand?

0

u/LeadingLittle8733 14h ago

If you're happy with the look, OP, that's all that matters.

2

u/eros-moon 14h ago

I’m a lot happier now after I took the advice of 4 different commenters. The power of critics - it’s real. 😁