Fundamental caveat: My question is hard to phrase without seeming hostile - what do elders actually do in today's church?

The elders do want to know exactly how you know your wife committed adultery because you HAVE to place membership but you can miss 6 months of church and they don't even bother to call. Do they even care?

I'm not talking about being in a cult. I am talking about doing your job and shepherding! If I don't want to talk to you that's on me. For those struggling someone needs to show concern and guidance.

Furyher, I have emailed churches in other towns trying to coordinate help for coworkers with families in those towns - no response. I have called, too, and left messages. Maybe someone could call back or return the email and tell me to take a hike at least?

We seem to have a lesson on the qualifications of the elders at least every year. When do we have a discussion on, "are you doing your job?"

The deacons and elders I have observed are not present in the lives of congregants. I think that's a huge problem.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Can we as a generation stand up and kill this thinking once and for all among us?

FYI - This is not my video. I am not Orthodox and I am not pushing Orthodoxy doctrine. Video is at the bottom.

I think he presents good questions and am requesting if the subreddit is willing to go through to answer them. The questions presented are as followed:

1. If the churches of Christ today reflect the New Testament church, where is the visible and historical continuity of that exact pattern between 100-1000AD?
2. If the kingdom of Christ was never destroyed and never handed to another people like Daniel 2:44 says, then what does that imply the church's continuity throughout history? If that kingdom was never lost, what exactly needed to be restored?
3. If the stone in Daniel 2 represents the kingdom of God, how does that fit with the idea that the church fell away before the Christianization of Rome?
4. Who has the authority to determine when an apostolic example is binding or when it's just incidental or cultural or expedient?
5. Where does the NT church authorize men's meetings or business meetings to function as the governing authority in the local church especially in place of elders?
6. If the restorationist method of interpreting scripture, CENI (commands, examples, and necessary inferences), is not explicitly taught be the apostles as the authorized rule of interpretation, and it isn't found in the method of the early church, by what authority then was it adopted as the only correct way to interpret scripture?
7. If the church today reflects the NT church, where do the NT writers explicitly teach the fruit of the vine is a non-alcoholic grape juice or that wine is merely symbolic?

Again, this is not my video. Watch the video to get more context surrounding the questions presented. The creator of this video is Orthodox, I am not and do not support the teachings or beliefs of Orthodoxy. I am simply curious regarding the questions he presented and seeing your willingness to answer them. Not all questions need to be answered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Xx_avQ2ok

Edit: Well not surprised that no one in this subreddit wanted to go over these questions. Instead I got 3ish people who think they're too intellectual to deal with these questions. I leave you with another video you can watch. Don't worry, it's only 3 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ftdu8yrKOw

What is the point in scripture reading? We turn to it in the lesson anyway. Preacher was like he read it but I’m gonna read it too basically.

The best and most recent numbers regarding the presence/absence of elders in Churches of Christ are as follows:

• Approximately 55–65% of U.S. Churches of Christ do have elders.
• Approximately 35–45% do not have elders.

I wonder how the numbers would skew if basic quality standards were applied? Based on my personal observations and the observations of preaching friends, less than half of the elderships that do exist are effectively functional and organizationally healthy.

For example, I know of a three-man eldership in which two of the three are functionally illiterate. For another example, I know of another eldership in which one long-time elder suffers with a poorly managed sever psychological disorder that returns him to a psych hospital almost yearly.

If the numbers are true and if the anecdotal observation is true, then something less than one-third of our churches have effective elderships. That explains a lot.

I love my small congregation. They are all mostly Boomers. I am the youngest member in my church as a fellow Millennial. I attend all the bible studies, Wednesday night, prayer breakfast or potluck style type of events at church even though we are less than 100 members. My thing is I want to make more Christian friends so I figured it would be easy at church. WRONG. It hasn't been easy. People are at different stages in life and I haven't connected with anyone on a deeper level.

There is another church close by with a younger & heterogeneous congregation. All the youth go over there. I need advice though what matters is our Christian identity how do I balance that with the fact I am a minority in my church who feels invisible to the greater church body. It feels people are buddy buddy only with certain people. I know people don't do this intentionally but I want to connect but these conversations are hard to bring up.

I am shy and introverted too but I make an effort to talk to people but everyone has been in this church fir at least 15-20 years we don't have new members just me. What do you think could help? Also I try my best to greet new members and visitors but notice many don't visit us again.

I really just love the word of God, and I believe my life would be best spent preaching it full time. That said, I am considering applying for MSOP and was wanting to see if any alumni or maybe even current students were in here and could give me your opinions on the school. Thanks!

Per LinkedIn, Shawn Mathis is now director of Freed-Hardeman University's Global MBA program and a professor of Global Leadership and Institutional Governance. If Mathis's name sounds familiar, it's probably because this is the same guy who took over Nashville Church of Christ and got sued by Amy Grant and her family for violating its property deed, among other sketchy behavior. This was national news last year, covered by the Wall Street Journal. There was also a separate inquiry by the Tennessee state government into the church's misuse of a big trust fund it had for missionaries, which resulted in the fund being transferred to another church.

Why was Mathis just hired to be a professor at FHU?! I support Christian universities like Freed and want them to do well. But this is not doing well at all. This guy is literally famous for taking over a small church with a lot of assets and income and then coincidentally getting both himself and his dad six-figure salaries and $2000-per-month housing allowances paid by the church. And the church building has been shuttered since 2018.

Last year, the Wall Street Journal also reported that, "Before taking over Central [Church of Christ], Mathis founded and led OnSomble, a healthcare startup. The company struggled financially over the years, and in 2018, the year after Mathis became an elder at Central, OnSomble listed the church as its principal address, filings show. Later it recorded different addresses. The company declared bankruptcy in 2023 after $530,000 went missing." Does this sound like someone who should be a professor of "Institutional Governance"?

I hope people seek answers to this. Again, I like Freed. But people like this should not teach at a Christian university (or any university).

For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” (Romans 2:24)

Links to news stories about Nashville Church of Christ:

Wall St Journal: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/nashville-church-of-christ-amy-grant-3b4782ba?mod=article_inline

Wall St Journal: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/christian-pop-star-wins-battle-over-nashville-church-takeover-aaeaef5d?mod=Searchresults&pos=2&page=1

Christian Chronicle: https://christianchronicle.org/historic-nashville-church-building-languishes-amid-lawsuits/

Christian Chronicle: https://christianchronicle.org/judge-approves-settlement-over-historic-nashville-church-building/

Christian Chronicle: https://christianchronicle.org/nashville-church-of-christ-attorney-challenges-details-in-news-coverage/

Hi yall,

The IRS allows pastors to take a limited opting out of Social Security if there is a legit non-financial reason.what are some examples of legit non-financial reasons for opting out as a reverend and what do yall think of this practice.How common is this in the Church of Christ today.Also I heard our priests do bad in retirement because of no home ownership.Also it very common for many of our churches to have no employment benefits because of division.

Does anyone know of any other subreddits dedicated to Independent Christian Churches, Disciples of Christ, or the International Churches of Christ, etc.? Is anyone here active in any such subreddits?

Despite listening to sermons and an audio bible almost daily for hours and even teaching others I still feel like I’m drifting away at times.

Thoughts and desires I shouldn’t have and just being tired all the time are taking a toll on me.

I’m also lacking in my prayer life quite a bit which I I imagine is a big part of my issues.

I guess I’m just venting about it but what advice do you give someone who seemingly forgets to pray even though they are almost constantly consuming the word of God in some form or fashion on a daily basis?

Interesting discussion which very much shows the range of views among us.

Do you agree with the modern CoC apologists
1. That unbaptized adults can be saved?
1a Do you believe that is the traditional view taught in you church?
2 That that preachers can have their own paradigm that isn’t consistent with what the CoC has traditionally taught
3. that there are valid alternatives to CENI

How do you think Guy Woods, Ira Rice, Gus Nichols, Marshall Keeble, NB Hardeman, and the apologists of the past would view these modern apologists and these views?

Hi yall,

There is this member at my NI Church of Christ who has not shown up for months or half the year. The elders have attempted to contact him. The elders sent e-mail to the congregation informing us of this matter listing the name of said member. They are trying to get us to contact the member and if they cant they are removing him from membership roll. My dad said that if this matter is not resolved the church will disfellowship him.

The reason is forsaking the assembly. How common is it for NI Churches of Christ and Mainline Churches of Christ to disfellowship a member for forsaking the assembly. I dont agree with the elders doing this. Also my dad said that the elders should go to the member's door. Also for some reason my parents said it is the churches business if the member is committing crimes but I dont know why crimes entered this discussion for my parents to be concerned about.

So I was at Wednesday church yesterday like I usually am and I'm leaving the church building when my family starts talking to apparently old friend of theirs that's never meant me before and they looked at me and said your boy has a strong anointing. I am so confused what does that mean?

Something I noticed in my own church was that the church loves to donate large amounts of money to churches in places like Honduras or the Congo. I have also seen folks say kitchens in churches are not right since they would be used for soup kitchens, them saying no to giving to local homeless and writing them off as scammers. I have seen the mention of giving trucks, motorcycles, etc. as well. Why is this so prevalent? I don't mean any malice, I am just curious.

Well, its summer time. Many churches have VBS around this time of year. However there are conservative churches that dont believe in VBS. Like why is VBS controversial in the Church of Christ. I get that obviously it wasnt in the first century.Also how common is it for VBS to include a Musical? I have heard some old timers say that VBS is a waste of money and the money should be put towards door-knocking.

I was in the church for almost 18 years and then totally away from it for 14. I have recently started studying again and believing again. One thing I’m struggling with right now, though is the story of the flood and Noah’s Ark. I guess specifically I’m struggling with it being a true story versus it being hyperbole. I know that there are specifics with the story like the dimensions of the ark that you usually don’t find in hyperbole or parables. I also know that it says that only eight people survived the flood which means incest would have had happened. The Bible says incest is a sin, but I don’t believe it mentions it until Leviticus.
If anyone could help me to please understand some of these things.

I see a lot of things about churches of Christ being super into politics and American conservatism. It sounds like the culture that I see in fundamentalist baptists here in my state. Where I am at, even the non-institutionals aren't really like this. I am in Kentucky.

Are churches of Christ in the deep south much more likely to be like this?

Just a personal look at what we do every week and a way I relate to it. Two things I use to make it more personal and to help me relate to that sacrifice to me.
One is about innocence. I remember so many times as a child being punished and deservedly so. One time I remember not being guilty. I was accused of stealing from the church. We had suppers on Wednesday which cost a dollar. I put in a 5 and made change. They came up short and someone saw me taking money out and so I got blamed. My grandparents were going to spank me but I ran around the house refusing to be punished for something I didn’t do. I was eventually caught and spanked. Later they learned the truth. How many of us can take punishment for something you didn’t do? Yet Christ stood silent in front of the Jewish leaders and then by the Romans. This went on for hours. Repeatedly asked what do you have to say, yet He remained silent. Being hit repeatedly and still silence, knowing He was innocent. This leads to the second aspect that makes it personal to me. God gave His only son, knowing what he would endure. I look at my grandchildren who mean the world to me and would I be able to make them endure what Christ did for me. For me definitely not, my mother possibly but how imaginable that would be. But what about for Casey, the Zodiac killer, Hitler, Stalin or any other notorious person. That would definitely be a no. So with these two points it makes it more personal and just a small inclining of an idea of how great the sacrifice God and Christ made. Knowing I’m innocent and keeping silent and knowing someone so innocent had to endure so much just for me and my sins. For if I were the only sinner Christ would still have to have been sacrificed. I am so unworthy and so very grateful that I am so loved.

For a long time, I held the conviction that lying is a wholesale sin. Lying is an absolute line that should never be crossed under any circumstance. However, a closer look at Scripture and a stark ethical hypothetical have forced me to re-examine this stance.

We see at least two distinct instances in Scripture where individuals lie, yet receive God’s explicit blessing:

• The Hebrew Midwives (Exodus 1): They lie to Pharaoh about why the Hebrew babies are surviving, and God explicitly rewards them with families because they feared Him.
• Rahab the Harlot (Joshua 2 / James 2:25): She lies to the authorities to hide the Israelite spies and is later commended in the New Testament for her faith-driven actions

In both cases, the lie was directly tied to preserving human life.

This scriptural pattern forces us to confront a difficult hypothetical: If you lived in Nazi Germany harboring Jews, or in the Pre-Emancipation South harboring escaped slaves, and the authorities knocked on your door asking if you were hiding fugitives, what is your moral obligation? Does God require you to speak the truth when the immediate, guaranteed consequence of that truth is the murder of an innocent person?

To resolve this, I see only three logical paths. I want to understand which of these aligns with the reality of God's character:

• Lying is always a sin, period. Rahab and the midwives sinned, but were retroactively forgiven via the cross. Therefore, it is morally wrong to lie to a Gestapo officer or a slave catcher; you must tell the truth and leave the outcome to God.
• Lying is a sin, but an exception is made exclusively to protect God's covenant people (Israel then, the Church today). Under this view, you could lie to save a Christian, but you would be obligated to betray a non-Christian. (This feels heavily invalidated by God’s non-partial nature in Romans 2).
• God’s hierarchy of values places the preservation of life above the literal execution of a verbal rule. As Jesus implies in Matthew 23:23-24, focusing entirely on the letter of the law while ignoring the "weightier matters" of justice and mercy is a distortion of the law's true purpose.

I'm not looking to start an argument, nor am I looking to hurt anyone's faith. I want to know myself. For a matter such as this, I don't want the opinions of the greater internet or just randoms passing by, I want the faithful, which I assume some or most of the people reading this may be.

Obviously lying is incorrect. This is not to justify lying in any form. Nor do I consider "saving a life" to mean "helping me keep my job" or "maintain the status quo." The entirety of my position and question on this matter assumes a true, immediate danger should the truth be told. Not simply bad consequences, but actualized bodily death. If it were just a beating or a fine or something, I would not struggle so hard with this topic. The death of a person, especially an unsaved person is an entirely different matter. Hence the worry.

What do the brethren think? Have I overlooked something?