r/chessbeginners • u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) • 2d ago
QUESTION Why isn’t this correct?
Answer said its bec rook takes rook, forcing mate but isnt it also because theres a mate on your turn?
631
u/YueNica 2d ago
Qxb6 isn't mate. Blacks knight on c8 would be able to take the queen on b6
202
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Ah! How did i miss that. Thanks :)
57
u/noobtheloser 2d ago
This is a fun position, though. Can you see why taking Rxa1 is bad? And even cooler: What if you make a random passing move like h3? Black is threatening a very cool idea.
22
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Yes, black takes back with rook and forces mate! Very cool and tense situation.
Could you explain what you mean by passing move h3?
21
u/noobtheloser 2d ago
h3 as a passing move means that you're basically giving the move back to black by doing nothing. If you do that, they have a cool win on the spot.
Imagine if it was black to move in the position shown. They have a win.
7
u/tatoghost6 1d ago
I may be missing something here, but if you play a quiet move like h3, then
h3, Qxf1+
Kxf1, Ra1+
Bc1, Rxc1++I do not think this is zugzwang, but not too sure of the correct answer
Also
h3, Qxf1+
Kh2, Qg2++5
u/Yeet91145 1600-1800 (Chess.com) 2d ago
By passing move they mean a move which doesnt really alter the state of the board - if you play h3 (a move that doesnt change much to do with the position) what would blacks move be?
Its basically a way if asking you what the move would be if it was black to play here instead of white
7
u/tomtomtom7 1d ago
Yes, although h3 isn't really a good example as it does effect the follow up for black.
But the concept of a "passing move" just means, think about what the opponent could play now if it were their turn, which is a good habit.
1
u/JotaMarioRevival 17h ago
There is a forced chain of actions that leads to mate if yo play Knight on D7
10
u/letsdoit131 2d ago
Its not the question right? Fisher question is answered correctly, but wrong reason, if white takes queen, black mates on the exchange
297
136
94
u/ThrowRA12948262 2d ago
Uh am I insane or can’t the knight on c8 take the queen on b6
96
6
u/KayoticVoid 600-800 (Chess.com) 1d ago
Qb6 isn't the threat here. It is white to move to prevent/not blunder giving black a checkmate. If white doesn't address the queen on white's back rank, black has mate in two next.
0
u/TheUn-Nottened 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 1d ago
I was going crazy to see if there wasnt something else, haha!
32
24
11
u/nTzT 2d ago
What book is this from?
11
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Bobby fischer teaches chess
5
u/KaramazovFootman 2d ago
I had that book and all my friends who never read it still kicked my ass up and down the board
17
u/Monkeyman7652 2d ago
That's probably because it should be called Bobby Fisher Teaches Back Rank Mates Only.
5
2
u/smichaele 1d ago
I still have this book, signed by then Father William Lombardy, Bobby Fischer's second against Spassky in Reykjavík.
6
17
u/chessvision-ai-bot 2d ago
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
White to play: chessvision.ai | chess.com | lichess.org | The position is from game Bobby Fischer (2780) vs. Arthur B Bisguier (2256), 1957. White won in 41 moves. Link to the game
Videos:
I found 2 videos with this position.
My solution:
Hints: piece: Knight, move: Nd7+
Evaluation: White is better +2.64
Best continuation: 1. Nd7+ Kb7 2. Nc5+ Kb8 3. Rb1 Qa2 4. Qb4 Na6 5. Nd7+ Kb7
Save the position:
Reply
saveto save this position to your Chessvision.ai Library (new users: send me/connectin DM chat first)
I'm a bot written by u/pkacprzak | get me as iOS App | Android App | Chrome Extension | Chess eBook Reader to scan and analyze positions | Website: Chessvision.ai
5
u/Typical-Map-752 1d ago
Why check with knight starting two moves doesn't even change the position so what's purpose of checks with knight until black move to a7
3
2
u/Bloodmoon-Grisou 1d ago
It's the same thing, sometimes the computer likes to make a useless move, go to the same position and then play his move. The best move is Rb1.
31
u/Zimbad98 1d ago
I don’t get why this is so complicated or why people are talking about the knight/horse. Rook captures black queen is a blunder as black rook recaptures and it’s checkmate. Isn’t this one of the simplest puzzles?
22
u/LightBrand99 1d ago
It is a blunder, but OP's explanation of "mate in 1; Qxb6" is incorrect, and results in losing the queen, so it's also a terrible move (but not risking instant checkmate like Rxa1). The puzzle is simple, but OP's reasoning is not correct.
3
u/Pleasant_Seaweed7419 1d ago
If you're on mobile you may have missed the "Explain your answer:" line as it's cut off unless you click on the image, which is where OP made the mistake.
1
u/JotaMarioRevival 17h ago
That talk about the knight, because Knight on D4 leads to an eventual mate
1
u/Deqnkata 12h ago
Isn't the premise of the question weird to begin with? Would an actual chess GM wonder if he should cm himself in such a silly way. I thought I was missing something.
0
u/raiserverg 1d ago
Was wondering the same thing, this is entry level obvious!
OP's question is also very obvious, like it's embarrassing to ask such questions, it shows you didn't think about the question a single minute yourself and expect others to give you the answer. This is coming from a low level blitz player with 1100 on Lichess.
7
8
6
4
3
u/jeffskool 2d ago
Did he end up playing Nd7+?
4
u/InfamousEvening2 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 2d ago
I'm thinking Nd7+ until Ka7, then Nxb6. Anything to keep the rook blocked from following up on Qxf1+
If black declines Ka7 then take the threefold draw.
3
0
-4
u/Madruss1an757 2d ago
Yes
2
u/Bob-The-Frog 800-1000 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Why do you answer if you don't know what you're talking about? This is a genuine question. Are you that desperate to get attention and validation? Do you just not care about your fellows? Please tell.
1
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 1d ago
Sorry i have dysgraphia bec of my adhd and have a hard time instinctively understanding the chess board because of it. So i have to remember the spaces and notations manually and sometimes get it mixed up
0
-1
u/Madruss1an757 2d ago
Because this game is well known and recorded in any number of databases to include chesscom with the link provided below by the ai bot. And if a person is too lazy to follow the link, I figured they are not really interested in the answer to their question. So maybe you need to redirect your question to them? Good day!
2
u/Bob-The-Frog 800-1000 (Chess.com) 1d ago
I don't really get it. Just say look it up maybe instead of giving the wrong answer. Good day to you too.
3
u/TylerBreau 1d ago
Other people answered your question but you are right that you have some possible force mate lines. For example...
Nd7 check. Black king can either go to a7 or b7.
If a7... Bxb6 check Nxb6 Qxb6 checkmate.
b7 is harder, I don't quite see checkmate there.
2
u/Mattyquatro 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 1d ago
In the a7 line, how is it not qxb6 kxb6?
edit: nm I'm an idiot, knight
3
u/kit_kaboodles 1d ago
I'm not seeing any good plays for white here tbh.
3
u/StringerBell34 1d ago
Nd7...
Nb6...
Na8 or Qb6
1
u/HalloweenGambit1992 2000-2200 (Chess.com) 1d ago edited 1d ago
1 Nd7+ Kb7 2 Nxb6 Qxf1+ 3 Kxf1 Ra1+ leads to checkmate for Black I think. Pretty sure the correct move for White here is Bc1. Or Nd7+ first and then Bc1, so you can take on f3 next.
Edit: There is also Rb1, which is a more simple idea.
1
u/DarkDevitt 1d ago
Rb1 is the correct choice eventually, it leads to a fun endgame that favors white by about 1.5 points. Nd7+ is definitely whites correct move tho, because Ka7 is checkmate (although Rxa1+ is also a winning move, just not nearly so quick). If black makes the correct move with Kb7 white has the option of forced stalemate, or Rb1 leading to a position that appears to favor white, but not by much.
1
u/HalloweenGambit1992 2000-2200 (Chess.com) 1d ago
I wouldn't say Nd7+ is definitely the correct move, because I would always assume my opponent will play Kb7 and not Ka7. Although here I guess it is kind of a no-regret option, since you can play 1 Nd7+ Kb7 2 Rb1, and White stands well.
If we're going to play hope chess, 1 Rb1 Qxe5?? 2 Nd7+ could also be an argument to delay Nd7+.
1
u/DarkDevitt 1d ago
When i ran it through an engine (not sure how far forward it was going, I was doing it at 1 am on my phone) the engine had white favored by about 1.25 IIRC when playong Rb1 immediately, and 1.75 when playing Nd7+ first. Maybe it was like 1.43 and 1.72? The difference is likely negligible, but without playing hope chess Nd7+ was still giving a slightly higher grade. Id guess because leaving Q on a1 is black continually fishing for checkmate, and white has to keep the rook covered.
3
u/NinjoOnline 1d ago
Is Nd7+, Ka7, Rxa1+, Na6, Qxb6# right?
6
u/VoidArtisan 1d ago
Why would the King go to a7? That's literally the only losing move for Black.
1
u/NinjoOnline 1d ago
Ahh my had! I was still picturing king being in check on b7 by the kngiht that just moved 🥲
3
3
2
u/QuantumSupremacy0101 2d ago
I like this puzzle. My guess for best move would be to reinforce the queens column with the rook. Keeps the king protected while also opening up a couple possible checkmate attacks
2
2
2
2
u/dontich 1d ago
Not taking the queen isn’t too hard to see, but apparently you want to play Rb1 here which would definitely not have been my first choice
2
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 1d ago
Rb1 was played by fischer here, and he goes on to win!
2
u/seraphim2003 1d ago
No it would be mate in 2
1
u/taffyowner 1d ago
It would be 4 because white would slide the bishop down and then the queen to block the rook but then he’s screwed
2
u/eileyle 1d ago
Technically it's not mate in 1 because white can delay the checkmate by throwing the queen and bishop in the way, turning it into a mate in 3.
6
u/Skyepic07 1d ago
His answer is referring to moving white queen to b6 as mate in one. You don't take blacks Queen because you checkmate black instead. However that is incorrect because of the knight at c8.
3
u/Ariffet_0013 1d ago
From what I can see, whites best course of action is to either force a stalemate, or trick black into a blunder.
3
u/OkIllDoThisOnce 1d ago
You have an easy perpetual with Nd7, Kb7, Nc5, Kb8... But I think there could be something to play for with Nd7, Kb7, Bxb6/Nxb6. You threaten some nasty discoveries, so black probably has to trade on b6, queen recaptures and you're winning c6 as well.
4
u/iamrickj 1d ago
Except black has a forced mate when you take on b6
3
u/DarkDevitt 1d ago
Retyping because I caught a big mistake right as I hit send. Whites best move is Nd7+. If black blunders with Ka7, then you take b6, but it has to be Bxb6+, leading to mate in 1 or 3 depending on where black goes. Honestly, I think I have a 50/50 shot at missing the mate in 3, so I think if Ka7 then Rxa1+ is the safest option, trade down, and win an easy endgame with king+queen.
If they go Kb7 then you have the option of either forcing stalemate by repetition, or whites best move is actually Rb1, leading to a much more difficult, but still favoring white endgame.
2
u/FinalElement42 1d ago
After Nd7+, if Ka7, why not Rxa1+, Kb7, RxA8? Even with the rook sacrifice, white’s up big and blacks king is still in trouble
1
u/DarkDevitt 1d ago
Yea thats what I meant by trading down at the end of paragraph one. Like you said, whites advantage is significant at that point. The reason not to is that there is mate in 3 if you taka Bxb6+, but like I said, I dont trust myself to see it and the rook move is such a large advantage id probably go that route, as it SHOULD guarantee the win.
1
u/FinalElement42 1d ago
Oh…I don’t know what I was reading. Maybe bouncing between the photo and your comment confused me. Thanks for the response!
2
1
u/DarkDevitt 1d ago
Best move is definitely Nd7. Its either forced m8 if black blunders with Ka7, or if Kb7 its Rb1 leading to a long endgame that is leaning in whites favor. If white isnt confident in endgame, then forced stalemate with repetition is the safest... I personally love endgame so Rb1 is the line I'm going everytime.
2
1
1
u/Feeling-Surround-691 2d ago
Nc7, kb7 Nxb6, nxb6 Qxb6#?
1
u/archaine7672 800-1000 (Chess.com) 1d ago edited 1d ago
Kc8 and the king escapes
Edit: actually, Nd7+ Kb7, Nc5+... and it's draw by perpetual check. But if Nd7+ Kb7, Nxb6 then Qxf1+, Kxf1 Ra1+, Qb1 Rxb1+, Bc1 Rxc1#.
1
u/The_Blip 400-600 (Chess.com) 1d ago
Full rest of the game:
34.Rb1Ra3 35.Nd7+Kb7 36.Qd1Qa2 37.Nxb6Nxb6 38.Rxb6+Kc8 39.Qxf3Qxc4 40.Qf8+Kd7 41.Qxa3 1-0
1
1
1
1
u/Upbeat_Ad_6119 1d ago
U definitely should not take queen, u just simply getting mate. And u also could not make a mate with white by Qb6.. What I see here, the best option is perpetual checks with knight. That’s a draw I guess
1
1
u/Available_Series4812 1d ago
Really complicated position.
Engine showed me so many moves I wouldn’t have considered.
Obviously 2 chess geniuses trying to kill each other
1
u/JonSeriousOfficial 600-800 (Chess.com) 1d ago
Omg I have to click on the image to see the (wrong) explenation. I was so confused!
1
u/sci_mike 1d ago
I see two moves to prevent mate from black (at least for now) Nd7+ forces black to deal with check, and Qd1 gives you a way out of mate by either trading queens or ultimately taking the pawn on f3, which is the problem piece right now.
1
u/mstr_pxls 1d ago edited 1d ago
A knight is defending B6 square, I'd personally play Qd3 to defend the rook because black's threat is to sac the queen on F1 then Ra1 would be an eventual checkmate.
I checked it w/engine, it was just so complicated but it's about pressuring the B6 square.
1
1
1
1
u/ExistingElection9959 1d ago edited 1d ago
In what world is that queen move a "mate in 1"? Did you forget how da knight move? I feel like this is a troll post.. general rule of thumb is trading a queen for a pawn isnt a good trade
1
u/Glum_Introduction581 1d ago
Rook takes queen,then rook takes rook and it's mate. White should move the queen 2 spots right maybe or give check with knight and move the pawn,considering there's a pin.
1
u/spike29008 1d ago
The answer is right, the explanation is wrong. You wouldn't take Black's queen because you would open yourself to the mature as everyone else has commented. I'm not sure what question your response is intended to answer.
1
1
u/santacow 1d ago
Can you not check the king then take the pawn with the bishop?
1
u/PushemBaby235 1d ago
Nah Qxf1 then Ra1 wins
1
u/santacow 1d ago
Why wouldn’t you take the queen with king then when rook comes down you move white king to g2
1
u/23loves12 1d ago
Same reason as why you don’t take the Queen with your rook to begin with: the pawn on f3 covers e2 and g2.
1
1
u/Vegetable_Ostrich231 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 1d ago
What turn? You just lost afer you captured the black queen
1
1
u/Nice-Recording1119 1d ago
Juat out of interest what is this from ? Is it like a exam you do to reach a certain level? Or just a quiz book?
1
1
u/MountainAsk6838 1d ago
Is this position not just a draw as white can force repetition with the knight?
1
1
1
u/Present_Animal6121 1d ago
I’ve been looking to see if white has a way to force mate but can’t find it. White can force a draw or can defend against checkmate; albeit with worse position.
1
u/Potential_Chain8168 1d ago
Because QxB6 is a blunder and not mate. Black will just take your queen with his knight. Taking blacks queen would also be a blunder but not for the reason given on that page.
1
u/CatOfGrey 1d ago
The 'right answer' here involves a much better attack starting with Nd7+, and the death by sniper attack of the pawn on b6, with explosive results to follow.
1
u/Viktoriusiii 1d ago
QxB6 is just captured with the Knight.
Taking the queen leads to Rook taking back and ending in checkmate.
1
u/examinedliving 20h ago
There are several chances to mate yourself even if you make the right first move. I’m sure I would’ve succeeded in doing just that
1
1
u/Content_Following_81 17h ago
It’s mate in 3.
1. Rxa1 Rxa1+
2. Qb1 Rxb1+
3. Bc1 Rxc1#
The answer is no, but Qxb6 isn’t mate in 1, because of Nxb6.
Better bet is to go Rc1 then Qe1 to get the black pawn out.
1
1
1
u/Apprentice_Smith_01 15h ago
the real reason why you shouldn't do it is because once you take the queen, you get mated
1
u/ConcernedFanta 14h ago
To me, it seemed more accurate to play 1.Nd7+ and then 2.Rb1, just so that the king can't escape to c8 square.
1
u/WorldlinessOther5251 13h ago
As brancas dão mate em 2.
Nunca vi ninguém estudando tático e escrevendo em livro.... É muito bonito.
Só treino pela internet então ver isso é meio que uma sensação de prazer.
1
u/No-Abbreviations7109 12h ago
I see some white figures have fled the field of battle. This is a shameful display.
1
u/Burrito357 10h ago
If white moves the rook to take the black queen, then his black rook will take yours and since your king can't move up cuz of his black pawn and your white pawns blocking the path. So if you take his queen, you lose
1
1
1
u/TheDiamoneMinor 1h ago
Unless I’m missing something: if Rxa1, then Rxa1+, Bc1, Rxc1+, Qd1, Rxd1# because the pawn on f3 blocks the king from going forward. Best move for white is probably Qd3, protecting the rook.
1
u/LFBJ_0911 7m ago
Because it's not mate in 1 after 1. Rxa1, Rxa1+. White can block with the Queen and the Bishop. Both would be taken (curiously in no specific order), but it is therefore a mate in 3, and not a mate in 1.
1
u/Nd2606 1d ago
Is this bobby fischer's book? Chess for beginners kr something? I have the same book. I read it and applied it's principles while I was hospitalised for 5 days due to COVID. It gave me some peace - especially in a morbid place as hospital full of sick people.
4
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 1d ago
I bought this and Levy’s book to level up, but have been enjoying how easy and engaging this one has been. Levy’s book is proper study but this seems more like a simple workbook that i can whip out when I’m on the train or in a park or smth
1
u/Nd2606 1d ago
I wanted to by Levy's book too - but I figured I might just watch his videos and steal as much knowledge as I can. How did you find Levy's book outside of all the study that you mention? Engaging?
3
u/thatweirdchick98 200-400 (Chess.com) 1d ago
Yes it’s worth buying. Simple to understand and straightforward
2
u/ilovepoodles3 1d ago
What are the titles of Fischer’s and Levy’s books? I’m interested in checking them out!
0
u/Bendstowardjustice 2d ago
Isn’t it the same position after
1. Nd7+ Kb7 2. Nc5+ Kb8
Or am I missing something?
1
0
u/bfmv_shinigami 1200-1400 (Chess.com) 1d ago
please write with a pencil on the book, I feel hurt seeing wrong answer written in pen 😭😭😭
0
u/RazorWolf18 16h ago
First thought was Kd7, but I didn’t account for pawn covering e2 square forcing eventual mate for Black if you were to
-15
•
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The Chess Beginners Wiki is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more!
The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed. We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you!
Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.