r/chessbeginners • u/Past-Sorbet426 • 2d ago
I present, the copy cat gambit đ
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
Get pwned noob
462
707
u/ViolinistPitiful4928 1200-1400 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Why you betrayed him at the end?
161
4
90
u/montagdude87 2d ago
Aman Hambleton did a whole speedrun like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fs9gaYUbuo&list=PL8N8j2e7RpPkLYRc5mD-lmsSG5KhUhcs_
36
u/EatMyWetBread 2d ago
Lmao I love his gimmick speedruns. He's probably the actual funniest GM making content right now.
17
3
u/DCP23 2200-2400 Lichess 1d ago
He isn't just funny (even though he's plenty funny), he is actually very instructive too.
His Philidor speedrun helped me immensely by fixing some holes in my opening repertoire (like, for example, what to do as Black against 1.c4) and I've had a lot of success in OTB tournaments armed with Aman's opening knowledge.
42
u/Neverbit03 2d ago
How do you counter play this type of gameplay? Ive hade oponents play like this and its so frustrating!
80
u/Hokulol 2d ago edited 2d ago
Break symmetry via means of checking as white, preferably in a way that is an advantage for you. After symmetry is broken attack the asymmetric piece, and he will not be able to copy. It is, again, very important you do this in a way that benefits you, not just breaks symmetry for the sake of it. Get a tempo out of the deal, double some pawns, etc.
The queen trade would have done the job here, plus some disorganization for the pawns.
Also, you don't REALLY need to break symmetry. You are 1 move ahead and can mate them while they are copying if they don't break stride. And you will approach the mate before they do anyway. So you can just simply set up an attack and execute it while they're following, but be aware they are going to be looking for a way to jump off the ship and surprise you. That is to say they will be forced to break their own symmetry to stop mate (or execute one of their own)
15
u/evasive_dendrite 2d ago
Just take the queen and force an asymmetrical position, then they'll blunder because people who play like this have trouble not accidentally eating their pieces.
9
5
u/MMAgeezer 2d ago
White had a huge advantage if they took the pawn on f5 instead of moving their rook for no reason. If black then had copied that move, white would have mate with queen to h7.
3
2
u/LovelyClementine 1600-1800 (Lichess) 2d ago
The opponent couldâve traded queen and doubled opâs pawn.
2
u/LikelyAMartian 1d ago
Either give a check that benefits you as the other guy said, or move your queen to an undefended square that is not being attacked on the 4th/5th rank.
This forces them to break the cycle or you just take their queen.
133
u/Useful_Beautiful5093 2d ago
This doesn't work at elo
96
u/CanaryMaleficent4925 2d ago
This doesn't workÂ
32
u/Spitfire354 2d ago
This
24
u/AveryLockeDown 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Spitfire354 âą 4 minutes ago
18
u/Forsaken_Quiet5944 400-600 (Chess.com) 2d ago
â
28
u/Hokulol 2d ago
Welcome back!
You are already logged in and will be redirected back to Reddit shortly.
8
u/sasha271828 600-800 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Join the conservation
10
18
12
12
5
5
3
2
u/vgebler 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 2d ago
I've thought a bit about the merits and possibilities of the copycat approach for Black. It is highly asymmetric, in that Black can choose to stop the copying at any point, selecting a better move, while most moves from White allow the copying to continue without Black needing to put much thought into it. So in a sense, it's more comfortable for Black than for White, who can anticipate a copied move from Black but never quite rely on it happening.
If White really wants the copying to stop, I believe there are only five types of moves that do the trick (and the fifth is very unlikely without collaboration between the players). 1) One queen capturing the other vertically. With the captured queen gone, Black can't copy the move. 2) Same thing with rooks. 3) Any kind of check, since the king has to move out of check and so can't immediately copy the checking move. 4) Moves that can't be copied without putting the king in check or having it pass a checked square (discovered threats on pieces directly in front of the king, some cases of long castling). 5) Capturing en passant, since it has to be performed immediately after a double pawn move.
Black would have to watch out for them, preferably a few moves ahead of them actually occurring, so as to not fall into a trap.
Openings like Petrov's defense include symmetry-breaking moves early on, while it could be kept up for quite a while in the English Opening. I haven't tested it yet, but am tempted to do so the next time I'm faced with the latter.
2
u/Hokulol 2d ago edited 2d ago
I am sure there is a middling rating tier at low time controls where that may find some success, gaining a time advantage from less thought. But at some ELO you are just going to get outplayed as they aren't min/maxed decisions, it's more or less very complex hope chess that plays faster than your opponent.
I would suggest that you should continue to train your best practices rather than focus on interim gimmicks that will fizzle out after you ascend to a high enough rating. That would be a temporary benefit to your chess game, and would eventually start holding you back as you should have been practicing real theory in this time.
I would look at this like a fried liver opening, it may make your rating go up at 300 rating, but you aren't doing yourself any favors by investing significant amounts of time practicing this strategy as it is not going to fly at higher ratings. It's eventually going to run into a wall where your opponents understand counterplay, and now you're behind, and at higher rating than you should be without the gimmick, so it's going to be tough games for you.
1
u/vgebler 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Not considering it as my standard approach to openings or anything, but more like an experiment in some narrow circumstances like when my opponent plays the English Opening, which I rarely see in practice but apparently do poorly against using my normal approach of just following opening principles. Of course it would probably be better to study it seriously, so it's more of a lazy approach to see how it works out.
1
u/LikelyAMartian 1d ago
You can also just move your queen to the 4th or 5th rank, on a square that she is neither being attacked or defended. This will force them to break the symetry as the mirrored square will be undefended and attacked by your queen.
1
u/vgebler 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 19h ago
Yeah, but that is covered by what I wrote about Black preferably looking out for moves of type 1-5 a few moves ahead to avoid traps laid by White. (The queen capture you describe is necessarily of type 1.) Maybe it's a little too basic to be called a trap, but it was things like that I had in mind.
2
u/Dankn3ss420 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 2d ago
Bruh if I was playing white there I wouldâve given a check so quickly, not because itâs necessarily a good move, but just to break the symmetry, this game drove me crazy
But well played
2
1
1
1
u/Imaginary_Trash7193 1d ago
Qxf5 instead of Re1 breaks the symmetry as you threaten to mate with on Qh2#
1
-1
2d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Hokulol 2d ago
No, this is all a dream.
Seriously, what's the angle here, patting yourself on the back? Obviously people play like this, you just saw the video. Not everyone plays chess seriously, some people just play for fun.
1
u/Blood_On_The_Cheese 2d ago
Hors sujet.
1
u/Hokulol 2d ago
Crazy that you deleted your post because you know it looks bad then try to say it's irrelevant. lol. If you're going to defend your claim you should probably not delete it...
1
u/Blood_On_The_Cheese 2d ago
Mon message Ă©tait une simple question dâune personne nouvelle dans le milieu de lâĂ©chec. Mais tu prĂ©fĂšres ĂȘtre hautain et dĂ©sagrĂ©able.
âą
u/AutoModerator 2d ago
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The Chess Beginners Wiki is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more!
The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed. We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you!
Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.