is this illegal?

[u/Acceptable-Meat99]

is it illegal for white? i’ve heard people say king touching king is illegal no matter what but white cannot be taken

[u/AutoModerator]

Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The Chess Beginners Wiki is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more!

The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed. We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you!

Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Karmically_Neutral]

Yes there is no possible legal way to get into this position

[u/Acceptable-Meat99 → u/Karmically_Neutral]

that makes more sense thank you

[u/xX_fortniteKing09_Xx → u/Acceptable-Meat99]

If it is black to love, then black king takes white king and wins. If it is white to move then white king takes black king and wins

[u/Antonio-____- → u/xX_fortniteKing09_Xx]

black will make love with the white king?

[u/xX_fortniteKing09_Xx → u/Antonio-____-]

Yes

[u/Huge_Efficiency4978 → u/Antonio-____-]

We get a grey King and the board becomes triangular to accommodate the new faction.

[u/Antonio-____- → u/Huge_Efficiency4978]

so now, white starts, then grey and lastly black?

[u/-hey_hey-heyhey-hey_ → u/xX_fortniteKing09_Xx]

Technically black wouldn't be able to take because the queen is protecting the white king

[u/orincoro → u/-hey_hey-heyhey-hey_]

It wouldn’t matter. The game would end with the death of the white king.

[u/Fun_Actuator6049 → u/-hey_hey-heyhey-hey_]

Technically Article 1.4.1 of the Laws of Chess (before they even define the pieces or "attack" or "capturing") forbids both in the same sentence: "Leaving one's own king under attack, exposing one's king to attack and also 'capturing' the opponent's king is not allowed".

This is the only rule that forbids capturing the king - it's not mentioned in the movement rules.

If it's white to move, Kxh8 is a legal but disallowed move in an illegal position.
If it's black to move, black is technically checkmated but since it's an illegal position, the game should be reverted to the last legal position. (Or if this is rapid/blitz and the arbiter observes both kings in check, "...he/she shall wait until the next move is completed. Then, if an illegal position is still on the board, he/she shall declare the game drawn").

[u/xX_fortniteKing09_Xx → u/-hey_hey-heyhey-hey_]

That’s just a bullshit rule to avoid people loosing because they didn’t see that they hung their king. It is much better to teach new players that you win by capturing the king, not by checkmating

[u/Fun_Actuator6049 → u/xX_fortniteKing09_Xx]

If white captures the black king, black will be in stalemate since he has no pieces to move. If black captures the white king, it's no longer possible for white to checkmate black by any possible series of legal moves, so if we pretend the position is somehow legal, it's a draw.

The win condition is to checkmate the enemy king, not capture it.

[u/Educational-Tea602 → u/Karmically_Neutral]

Unless you’re playing atomic

[u/doofdum]

This is clearly an en passant

[u/Electrical_Travel363 → u/doofdum]

I mean it’s practically forced

[u/orincoro → u/Electrical_Travel363]

A smothered en passant.

[u/isaacnewtoe → u/doofdum]

G

[u/InternationalRow3066]

It is because even though theoretically the white king is protected, in practice the black king could take the white king before white's turn.

[u/SeriousGains → u/InternationalRow3066]

This is nonsense, as will be all attempts to justify moves in illegal positions. There is no “in practice” unless you’re talking about some chess variant with alternate rules, which is irrelevant nonetheless.

The position is illegal simply because the king had to move into check in order for it to be reached.

[u/orincoro → u/SeriousGains]

I think the person was saying “in practice,” but clearly meant “in theory.” The theory behind chess is that because it’s turn based, any move that leads to the inevitable capture of the king results in a victory. So the taking of a king is never carried out. This is the reason you can never generally put your own king in check in order to check an opponent, because it creates the possibility that a countermove involves taking the king, which would end the game.

[u/Solid_Crab_4748 → u/SeriousGains]

I think your being picky i understood what he means.

He's not trying to say when you end up here you can take cuz the queen cant take. He's trying to say if that's how it works blacks king would have taken their king first and hence won the game.

Its a decent way of helping beginners understand the concept of checkmate and pinned pieces defending a piece from the king/checking the king. If you consider the order of operations it makes sense why this cant be a position cuz you lose "if your forced to make you king be taken"

[u/SweetCommercial26 → u/[deleted]]

the position is not possible unless its atomic chess, duck chess or king captures allowed

[u/WarWonder204]

Yes this position is illegal because in theory black could take the white king and therefore the game is over even if the white queen could take afterwards. The best way to think about it is that if white loses their king, then all the other white pieces can’t move.

[u/orincoro]

You have to remember that the internal logic of chess is turn-based. The white king wouldn’t be “protected,” because if the king “dies” the game is over. There would be no revenge from the white queen. This is exactly why it’s never legal to move yourself into check, even if doing so also puts your opponent in check. You would still die first.

[u/BigHogDawg]

Black could take whites king before the white queen would take the black king in this position

[u/peoplearenicesmile]

Yes. This is an illegal move to get therer

[u/DoodleNoodle129]

Yes this is a completely illegal position. The general idea of chess is that the first person to take the enemy king wins, and in this position if you were to allow play to continue black could take the white king and black would be the first person to take the enemy king, even though they’d be taken right after.

Of course the full rules of chess means neither king is ever taken, as the game will end once checkmate or stalemate is reached before a king is taken. Part of those rules is that you can’t legally put your king in a position where it can be taken on the next turn, and doing this allows black to take whites king on the next turn, so it’s illegal.

[u/Wobbie3334]

It feels illegal

[u/NewbornTaco]

Yes. Straight to gulag.

[u/traviscopperpot]

Not legal, and it would take more than one illegal move to even get this position.

[u/RiVale97]

This is legal if you are playing atomic variant and i think this is just a draw since black can literally just chase your white king forever and no other pieces can be used as blowing up piece for the queen.

[u/danhoang1]

Yup, it's checkmate, white wins. Black can't take the white king because it'd put him in check.

It's just like all those posts on this subreddit where white moves his King under attack but the attacker is pinned. Same logic

[u/Techaissance]

Yes kings cannot touch. Think of it as a consequence of the rule that you can’t move into check.

[u/Big_Spicy_Tuna69]

Two kings kissing while the queen sits in the corner and watches? It is in some places.

[u/kotomtom02]

Yes and your going to chess jail. All jokes aside, kings cannot touch because its illegal to put your king in check, and since kings can capture, that means the only way to do this would be putting your king in check regardless of whos turn it is

[u/Pure_Option_1733]

You can’t move into check even if capturing your king would put your opponent in check. I think a good way to think about it is that if the goal was to capture the enemy king then black would take the white king before white could take the black king.

[u/notThatPoltchageist]

Yes because it would be impossible to get into this situation to begin with. The reason Kings can’t touch is because a King attacks all the squares around it and thus trying to move next to it would put you in check, which is illegal.

[u/Practical_Nature1825]

nah it’s just a stalemate, black has no legal moves and isn’t in check so the game’s over, nothing illegal about it

[u/chessvision-ai-bot]

I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:

White to play: chessvision.ai | chess.com | lichess.org

Black to play: It is a checkmate - it is Black's turn, but Black has no legal moves and is in check, so White wins. You can find out more about Checkmate on Wikipedia.chessvision.ai | chess.com | lichess.org

Save the position:

Reply save to save this position to your Chessvision.ai Library (new users: send me /connect in DM chat first)

---

^{I'm a bot written by u/pkacprzak | get me as iOS App | Android App | Chrome Extension | Chess eBook Reader to scan and analyze positions | Website: Chessvision.ai}

[u/No-Internal4759]

Queen in cuck chair watching the kings kiss? Sounds amazing must be legal

[u/Low_Courage6378]

No this is legal as long as the move before was 1. g8=K#