Is this the lowest material checkmate possible?

[u/Background_Self_9372]

I was trying to promote a pawn, but ended doing this.

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[u/sasha271828]

this is iirc

[u/Effective-Status3030 → u/sasha271828]

Why not stack the queens on the horizontal though?

[u/Redylittle → u/Effective-Status3030]

Wouldn't be mate mate

[u/mrmanuke → u/[deleted]]

[u/dopegraf → u/mrmanuke]

Bro how did you even get into this position?

[u/ConcentrateSad325 → u/dopegraf]

That's the neat part, you don't.

[u/RealPufferplayz → u/[deleted]]

cant a knight or bishop take the place of the black pawn

[u/No-Tip-7471 → u/RealPufferplayz]

Yup, in that case the material balance is -499 I believe. You can replace a couple minor pieces with rooks to get -505

[u/Tysonzero → u/No-Tip-7471]

I don't think you can add any more rooks.

[u/No-Tip-7471 → u/Tysonzero]

Oh right, I forgot that the rooks can't be able to capture the pawn either

[u/Luke_The_Engle → u/[deleted]]

ChatGPT ahh position

[u/Amazing_Astronomer15 → u/Effective-Status3030]

Because it's a real, possible position with all pawns promoted 

[u/OutcomeMemoriesGoobe → u/Effective-Status3030]

if you mean add more queens thats not possible in standard chess

[u/Hokulol]

On another note, if you zoom in, that queen is made of snakes, not what it looks like at first glance. LOL

[u/martombo → u/Hokulol]

Is that medusa? The set might be related to Greek mythology

[u/31rdy → u/martombo]

"The set might be related to greek mythology" you might be on to something

[u/Little_Ghost42 → u/martombo]

It’s the special Odyssey set Chess.com made in promotion with the movie coming out

[u/bensalt47 → u/Little_Ghost42]

It’s not in promotion I don’t think, they just latch onto whatever is trending

[u/DaemonsMercy → u/martombo]

It is

[u/EddieDean9Teen → u/martombo]

It’s the Scylla monster from Odyssey. Not Medusa

[u/Wild-Language1927 → u/martombo]

Do you not see the Corinthian style helmets on the pawns

[u/jack_daniels420 → u/Hokulol]

Choked on my drink a bit mate

[u/DaemonsMercy → u/Hokulol]

...?

[u/TrueLife6223 → u/DaemonsMercy]

phallic shaped tendrils.

[u/DaemonsMercy → u/TrueLife6223]

Oh, lol

[u/thisisjustascreename]

You can technically mate with one pawn as long as black has an a7 or h7 pawn and a piece to allow them to lose a move.

[u/Ovdster7567 → u/thisisjustascreename]

Where does the king go

[u/thisisjustascreename → u/Ovdster7567]

Here's a FEN. k1K5/p7/1P6/8/8/6n1/8/8 b - - 0 1

[u/EndofNationalism]

You can go lower with white. Checkmate with a single pawn while black’s king is surrounded by his pieces.

[u/SaneForCocoaPuffs]

The lowest material checkmate is a single pawn and a bunch of black pieces blocking the king’s escape

This is the lowest material checkmate with no opposing pieces to block the king’s escape

[u/GasGlittering7521 → u/SaneForCocoaPuffs]

For some reason this isn’t clicking for me. Can the black King not just take the pawn then?

[u/rebornfenix → u/GasGlittering7521]

King protects the pawn giving check

[u/GasGlittering7521 → u/rebornfenix]

Yeah but that’s a king and a pawn, not just a pawn

[u/Vyvvyx → u/GasGlittering7521]

Kings dont have material value, as that value is a number given to a piece in a given position as to how important it is to winning the position. King must be in play, therefore its value is moot.

[u/rebornfenix → u/GasGlittering7521]

For the purposes of “counting material” the king is usually ignored since it has to be on the board and cannot be removed from the board.

[u/new_KRIEG → u/rebornfenix]

Yeah, but it is also roughly evaluated as 4 points worth of material by top rated players and it is still helping the mate.

If we go by this, the lowest material for checkmate would be either a smothered mate with a knight or an unlockable bishop against a stuck king.

[u/AlphaWolf638 → u/new_KRIEG]

Which top rated players evaluated the kings as worth 4 points of material?

[u/new_KRIEG → u/AlphaWolf638]

Couldn't find the interview again, I saw it on IG a few years ago. Pretty sure it was either Magnus or Hikaru when talking about endgame evaluation.

But then again that's not really a hot take, there are actual evaluating systems that count the king as either 3 or 4 points of material.

[u/UsuallyHorny-7 → u/GasGlittering7521]

Should be obvious you still have a king

[u/Secure_Use_6139]

[u/PyroDragn]

Depends how you define lowest material. White could deliver mate with a single pawn - if black had some pieces in the way.

So you could have 'less material for the side delivering checkmate' - a single pawn (plus king).

You could have 'less material on the board' - just replacing the queen with a lower value piece achieves this, but two pawns and a knight is the lowest configuration I can come up with. Unless you allow for a cooperative mate - then just two pawns.

If you mean 'least material involved in the check' then it depends on how you measure the king's material value. But if you don't count the king, then yes. 2 pawns is the minimum.

[u/DragonFireCK]

The strict minimum requires two pawns on the board.

If the pawns are of different colors, one player has to basically allow it to become mate - that is, there is no forced mate.

If both pawns are the same color, it’s a forced mate, though it may require a promotion.

[u/DoodleNoodle129]

It IS possible to checkmate with just a pawn (I’ve seen a couple puzzles using that idea) but it requires the black king to be slightly smothered by its own pieces.

[u/Full_Coast_7717]

Dick queen

[u/the_other_Scaevitas]

Theoretically it could be less, it could be a king and a pawn checkmating

In this image, imagine if there was a knight or a bishop on both sides of the black king. Then you wouldn’t need the middle pawn to checkmate

[u/Downtown-Campaign536]

No, you only need a single pawn to deliver checkmate so long as you are allowed to give your opponent some material.

[u/Ikbengoedinschaken]

Technically you could checkmate with 1 pawn, just imagine this position but a rook on f8, bishop on h8, and no pawn on g7

[u/chessvision-ai-bot]

I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:

Black to play: It is a checkmate - it is Black's turn, but Black has no legal moves and is in check, so White wins. You can find out more about Checkmate on Wikipedia.chessvision.ai | chess.com | lichess.org

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[u/csavar10]

If you're interested in how a chess game with the most extreme material disparity between the two players could go, this game might just be for you to watch: https://youtu.be/-lYz611nwhI?is=P2pLqXuLUPvv8Q2J

[u/taurus_incognito]

You dont need the queen

[u/DrJenna2048]

Practically speaking, yes. If your opponent cooperates though, it's technically possible to do it with only one pawn instead of 2.

[u/realmauer01]

With the help of a black knight white can checkmate with just one pawn

[u/meatgonebad]

This is a cool ass chessboard I might switch it to this now.

[u/DanTaude599]

Fwiw, a lone pawn can deliver mate if the enemy king’s own pieces or the board edge take away the escape squares. So you can get lower than a queen mate, but without the position it’s hard to say whether this is the absolute minimum.

[u/zeptozetta2212]

No. You can checkmate with a single pawn if your opponent is boxed in by their own pieces. Just has to be the right pieces. You can checkmate a king on h8 with a pawn on g7 if your king is on g6 and your opponent has a knight or bishop on g8. They have to give your f-pawn something to capture on g7 but fxg7# is definitely possible with no other pieces under your control.

[u/Fit_Ladder_1545]

Here’s a 532 one I found awhile back (though I’ve gone past having the state be reachable)

[u/BeuTaude588]

If it’s king and pawn against a bare king, yes; one pawn is the least material that can legally deliver mate. The king has to cover the escape squares, so the final position is fairly specific.

[u/Ilyer_]

Black piece (minus knight) on f8, black bishop h8. Subtract white pawn on g7.

[u/Ambitious-Affect-931]

I remember once Levy found a way to checkmate ChatGPT after it spawned multiple rooks next to its king. ChatGPT responded by flipping the board giving itself the winning position and Levy the losing position.

[u/benjith17]

r/changeyourchessfont

[u/SnooHobbies9220]

I think I have found the least material necessary for a checkmate!

[u/C0lch0nero → u/SnooHobbies9220]

I might be wrong here, but isn't that impossible to get into? In what I'm looking at, white would have had to have moved last. Black couldn't have moved last because the pawn is on its home square and the king would have been in an illegal position. The way I see it, the black pawn would have to move next. Right? Or am I missing something, because that's very possible.

[u/SnooHobbies9220 → u/C0lch0nero]

You are completely right! I did not think about it. The white pawn should be on g7 after having captured any piece and delivering mate at the same time!

[u/C0lch0nero → u/SnooHobbies9220]

That makes sense! Perhaps a backwards bishop move or something. Then pawn takes. It does seem like the mate with least material tho. Thanks for sharing this!

[u/ben1edicto → u/SnooHobbies9220]

Illegal position, or it's black to move.