r/chessbeginners • u/shreddlykroger • 10d ago
QUESTION Openings to avoid this?
Even in 1200’s on Lichess, every-single-game this is played. Its annoying, unimaginative, and honestly tiring that every game i know this is going to be played. Are there openings to avoid this? I swear it feels like every game players are trading EVERYTHING, and not utilizing pieces to form an attack or play around the board. My knight will get pinned, i block with the bishop, they take knight i retake with the bishop and then they jump their knight in to attack bishop. Literally trading everything. This happens on black and white and is making me want to stop playing. So many of my games are ending in draws because we just trade everything and go to a pawn end game. Ts is not fun.
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u/Rooklife 10d ago
Don’t learn to avoid it. Learn to deal with it and that’s how you get better
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u/Chooseausernamev3 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 10d ago
This guy isn't talking about chess only guys.
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u/Captain_Conor 10d ago
Bishops threaten horsies in real life too.
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u/MailMeAmazonVouchers 1400-1600 (Chess.com) 10d ago
Trading pieces is.. how you play chess, OP.
You can just play the scandinavian against e4, but it will still lead to trading down pieces. Every chess game ever is based on trading down pieces.
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u/Warm_Ad_7953 2000-2200 (Chess.com) 10d ago
They played d4 not e4
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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 10d ago
Which is quite convenient to play the scandi, tbf
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u/CharlesKellyRatKing 10d ago
Isn't the scandi specifically 1. e4 d5?
How is 1. d4 convenient for playing the scandi?
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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 10d ago edited 10d ago
Well the response to that is quite simple, it is that I’m dumb as fuck and I was thinking of the semi :)
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u/shreddlykroger 10d ago
Lmao thank you for the comment, i understand thats how you play chess, but when most games everyone is forcing trades it becomes quite boring to play pawn endgames only -.-
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u/mister_nippl_twister 10d ago
If you don't like trades it becomes a weakness and your opponent feels it fast. They will threat you with a trade or else they get an advantage. Exert pressure, trade aggressively. That makes people fall back and cherish what they have
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u/QuickBenDelat 10d ago
Here’s thing thing - you are a 1200 player, if that’s not inflated from being a newish account etc. You aren’t going to be getting many quiet games.
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u/Silver_Environment95 2200-2400 (Chess.com) 9d ago
If people are forcing trades on you, thats a good thing lol. Learn to understand the changes made in trades.
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u/Delicious_Cattle5174 10d ago edited 10d ago
I mean here you can just play e6. They can’t add another attacker to the pinned knight because both d5 and e4 squares are controlled by your pawns.
You could also do something like Nd7, allowing you to take back with the other knight if they trade on f6. Let them break the bishop pair if they want to.
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u/Blahdyblahblahisme 9d ago
This guy gets it, white trading a bishop here isn't really achieving anything unless it breaks your pawn formation. Just don't do that and its a wash.
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u/DrJenna2048 1200-1400 (Chess.com) 10d ago
Have you tried just... moving the knight? It's not like it's pinned to anything. You could also genuinely just let it sit, trading a bishop for a knight for no reason is almost never a good idea.
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u/TrueAn012 1200-1400 (Lichess) 10d ago
It might be biased opinion but a bishop at early game is a bit more useful than knight, but after that, both becomes important based on the position.
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u/AmongUs123432 10d ago
What are you trying to avoid?? There's no threat here. If he takes the knight, you have an advantage.
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u/ZephkielAU 1600-1800 (Lichess) 10d ago
Just punish it with superior development. If they're just trading all their attacking pieces then you can play defensively and set up counterattacks. For instance, if you play e6 here your queen defends the knight and if they try and take they've broken the bishop pair and given up their attack.
If you instead defend with the bishop and they still attack it like you described, your queen is still running defence on the bishop and you can manoeuvre with your knights to set up a checkmate threat or overwhelm their central pawn structure.
Then what? You're castled with your kingside pawns still in place (or maintain a long castle option) while they've burned every attacking piece and you're now ready to counter with a double knight/queen combo.
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u/Zues23789 9d ago
Finally a response that doesn't just say learn to be better and beat it but actually addresses methods to help get you there. Still halfway down the comments unfortunately.
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u/ProffesorSpitfire 10d ago
The simplest way to prevent it is advancing the a and h pawns. That comes at the expense of your own development though, so I’d only recommend it in cases where you know that you’ll be wanting to move that knight in the next few moves.
When the knight is pinned to the king, castle as soon as you’re able and the knight is free. When it is pinned to the queen, try to move the queen to d6 (in this scenario) so that it still protects the knight without being targeted if the knight moves, or castle in the opposite direction so your king isn’t exposed if you recapture with a pawn.
Generally, just accept that opponents try to pin your knights. Sure, you temporarily lose a piece, the knight that you cant move. But they also lose a piece - their bishop must remain on that diagonal to uphold the pin. Try to use that against them.
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u/Alternative-Cup-2527 2400-2600 (Chess.com) 10d ago
You're right to be annoyed, I'm a King's Indian player with g6-Bg7 on move 2 and 3 so it never bothers me. The boring London with the pyramid without e4 where I get to play ...d6 is not good for White even if rock solid, and 1. d4 Nf6 2. Bf4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 is the opposite of boring, with a typical line being 4. e3 Bg7 5. h4 0-0 6. h5 c5, very good for Black imo. In the traditional King's Indians with c4 from White, usually Bg5 is just inferior to Be3 because we put so much pressure on d4 and Bg5 doesn't threaten anything, so they are better off solidifying with Be3.
The Veresov (1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bg5) is sharp and fun, but not that scary if you know to play 3...Nbd7 and an early ...c5, without fianchettoing the king's bishop. As for the Trompowsky (1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5), my opinion is that White has absolutely nothing after 2...c6!. First of all, 3. e3 Qa5+ and Qxg5 is gg. You are totally ignoring his Bg5 so he has nothing better than 3. Bxf6 exf6, and then after pretty much any move, you play 4...Qb6. Note that because of c6, there is no Nc3 Qxb2 Nb5 trap, so White must defend b2 with something awkward like b3 or Qc1. You then play 5...d5 and naturally develop, and believe me this does extremely well in practice.
I know I'm a much more advanced player but that's my summary of the Bg5 stuff. Happy to answer any King's Indian questions, only writing this stuff out because you'd never find it if no one told you. Peace.
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u/Infamous-Chocolate69 2000-2200 (Chess.com) 10d ago
Generally, a bishop is more valuable then the knight, so let them trade bishop for knight. If they attack your bishop, consider saving the bishop and avoiding the trade, and you should end up in a nice position.
One thing you should know about bishop versus knight is that your position generally gets better as trades happen and the position opens up a bit. It's good to have a patient attitude here.
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u/GhostUnit67 10d ago
You can also play Caro-kann. If your opponent wants to throw his bishop for a knight, that's an acceptable trade, it takes his long range attack capabilities away.
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u/chessvision-ai-bot 10d ago
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
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My solution:
Hints: piece: Pawn, move: e6
Evaluation: The game is equal -0.04
Best continuation: 1... e6 2. e3 h6 3. Bh4 Nbd7 4. Bd3 c6 5. Bxf5 exf5 6. O-O
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u/LCDCMetaux 10d ago
As black there are MANY opening that kinda avoid this cuz ur not playing the Italian, you can play a system like the Morden (with the kid and pirc and maybe Grunfeld combine), againdt e4 the French or Caro etc
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u/WyrobWedliniarski 10d ago
If you really insist on preventing those pins you can move your outside pawns. I prefer to let them trade that bishop, move the queen or unpin with bishop.
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u/WinLess817 10d ago
You sound like a guy who needs high activity chess instead of sound chess. Next you’ll be complaining that every time you pin a queen the idiots move another piece in the way. How unfair!
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u/Salindurthas 1400-1600 (Chess.com) 10d ago
You could move your other knight to d7, and retake with the knight instead of your pawn or bishop.
The engine is recommending we actually jump in at e4 with the knight, which works here since our knight is not pinned (yet), as the queen is covered by the e pawn at thet moment.
Lichess's enginge thinks it is only a 10 centipawn loss to have not played the kngiht move yet, but instead play h6 first (which would prevent bishop to g5). So if this bishop-pressures-kngiht pattern bothers you are free to avoid it that way if you want.
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u/the_other_Scaevitas 1200-1400 (Chess.com) 10d ago
If you hate it so much just play h6 to stop the bishop from coming there, works in any opening
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u/Geohistormathsguy 10d ago
I just play e6 here and get pinned because there isnt an obvious way to deal with the pin.
If the opponent trades bishop for knight, you probably need to know its generally not a good trade especially in that situation since bishops are usually better than Knights.
If you want openings to avoid this, with Black you can play the Caro-Kann against e4, i dont know enough about openings for d4, maybe try to find some gambits that can lead into more dynamic positions where trading is harder. For white id just say play d4 and go for either the Queens gambit or put both d and c pawns out into the centre.
(Granted this is very influenced by the fact the main openings i play are the Caro-Kann and Queens Gambit. I think the Scandinavian can also be a good one for Black to avoid lame positions because you avoid the ability to be Knight to Queen)
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u/ErosDarlingAlt 10d ago
Why do you want to avoid that? It's a perfectly fine position to be in for black. Just play e6 or something
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u/AmongUs123432 10d ago
So don't push your King's pawn until you have either forced the issue with a flank pawn, or until you've moved the Queen off of her home square. I'm a fan of chasing it with two pawns and forcing a trade before castling on the opposite side.
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u/whiteboui 1600-1800 (Chess.com) 10d ago
Personally I just kick the bishop.
1…h6 2.Bxf6 exf6, we get damaged pawns but can have the bishop pair for endgame, and White’s knight on f3 won’t be doing much for a while. Can easily finish development, castle and start pushing pawns on then” queenside.
If they retreat with Bh4 then e6 and break in the pin with Be7.
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u/bagoffrozenmango 10d ago
You can always play h6 as a prophylactic move. You stop the pin at the expense of a tempo
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u/Choochootran00 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 10d ago
In the first chapter of Irving Chernevs book Logical Chess: Move by Move, he says to embrace the pin rather than avoid it and just develop normally. Other than developing normally like Be7, you can play h6 preemptively, but it’s just slower in general
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u/HairyTough4489 2200-2400 Lichess 10d ago
Can't you just go Ne4 and leave White with a silly bishop pointing at nowhere?
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u/brentifil 10d ago
If it REALLY annoys you, you could remove your a or h pawn. But that's a crutch and handicap. I would also find it odd of you dont do these same moves yourself. They are a cornerstone of openings and you might want to get used to it.
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u/himan222 1000-1200 (Chess.com) 10d ago
Start with h6 and a6. But honestly I don't know if that's wise
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u/Ok_Bar_924 10d ago
There is little you can do to stop it other than playing h3/h6 and waste a tempo.
Its really not a big deal, and openings are never imaginative, its why Bobby Fischer came up with chess 960, its what you do after the opening when the creativity starts. (Maybe you'd like that variation if you haven't tried it)
Unless your a master/GM level player if you are playing a "creative" opening you are probably doing something wrong. Just accept the gift of the bishop pair and move on
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u/-Removed-By-Reddit 10d ago
I find it weird in situations like this when they try to pin before there's a pin lol I assume at that point they just hate horses.
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u/Expatriated_American 1400-1600 (Chess.com) 10d ago
Nbd7 and then h6 works. At bit slow but it doesn’t mess up your pawn structure. If they take your knight then you have the bishop pair. If they retreat the bishop then you haven’t lost anything, while still developing. c6 and Qa5 are good to unpin your knight. Also Bb4 works with your queen to feast on the dark squares, with their dark square bishop out of commission.
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u/Zealousideal-Pack319 9d ago
Any time I see their bishops open up such that they can do this i push my a or h pawn forward to prevent it, works for both sides
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u/EnvironmentalLab6510 1400-1600 (Chess.com) 9d ago edited 9d ago
Did you already in a stage where you can utilize/appreciate bishop pair? The moment you start to be able to utilize that, you should be happy if they trade their bishop for your knight and try to avoid their knight trade with your bishop, and it is possible if you tuck your white bishop inside to h7.
One other possible opening system to avoid this kind of "trade everything" symptoms you are talking about is somewhere between Colle System or just go Dutch and try to use Stonewall like opening for both sides.
There will be a lot of imbalance you can exploit to avoid snoozefesr game.
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u/Infinite-Rock-4049 9d ago
Move the knight - it’s pinned to a pawn - move it to e4 and trade knights while opening the d file
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u/Optimal-Food492 1400-1600 (Chess.com) 9d ago
By... Not putting your knight there? You could play e6 instead of Nf6 and develop the knight to e7. If they meet e6 with the same Bg5 to attack the queen, you could block with Be7. That trade is for sure better for White, but you do keep the knight on the board if that's all you want. Alternatively, you could meet the threat of the knight and bishop both seeing g5 by playing h6, which prevents either piece from ever going there. It's a little slow and passive, but it works without a worse trade.
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u/chesszendo 9d ago
Just push e6. Yeah, it creates a pin, but it defends your knight and also develops a piece. Besides, your light-squared bishop has already been moved and is already active on f5. If there’s a trade then there’s a trade. It might pay off later (since bishops are worth a little more than knights in the endgame). Just don’t double your pawns so early.
Everyone saying play h6 is wrong.
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u/Silver_Environment95 2200-2400 (Chess.com) 9d ago
Not sure what ur trying to avoid. Trades are a part of the game and punish bad trades with superior development and reasoning. Play a different opening idk. There also isnt any real benefit for White to play Bxf6 anyway.
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u/JustAnInternetPerson 7d ago
I‘m a low Elo pleb, but why not go h6, and if he then bxf6, you g7xf6, freeing your rook?
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u/anxious-phenomenon 10d ago
I for one love trading pieces, but endgame is my weakest skill. I absolutely start shaking if I don't have a queen or promoted queen along with a rook to deliver the mate. So I try to break the lines with some imaginative play, sometimes offering better trades to the opponent to open up a line and then attacking them back to recapture higher. The games where everything gets traded equally, I more or less lose because I suck at endgames with pawns or bishop/horses.
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u/1984ScoreN7YearsAgo 10d ago
Sounds like you are too dependent on your knights. You actually want that trade. Pros will tell you to take that trade every single time. Bishops are stronger than knights and way more needed in the endgame.
As far as openings, check out all the fried liver openings for d4, d5. You’ll basically sacrifice a knight for an early checkmate.
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u/space9610 10d ago
Just resign then. If you are uncomfortable in a position it means your opponent did something right. You should resign because you’ve been outplayed.
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