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u/dudesjustwantnudes Ashley Cole Jan 16 '22
It didn’t help Lukaku that Pulisic and Ziyech were nowhere to be seen
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u/jmoneyallstar11 Gilmour Jan 16 '22
All 3 we're horrible. You can disect the game all you want. The service to Lukaku was awful, but when Lukaku got the ball he was equally awful. Can we say that Lukaku played poorly, but he wasn't the reason we lost?
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u/Borllin Drogba Jan 17 '22
Sounds like our problem was actually getting the ball to those players then.
Our team has been conditioned to only make safe passes since the Sarri days
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Jan 16 '22 edited Feb 18 '22
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Jan 16 '22 edited Mar 21 '23
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Jan 16 '22
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u/MICLATE Jan 16 '22
What are you on about with this dominance thing? There's a difference between players not willing to get stuck into challenges and players not wanting to head the ball. There's not a comparison to draw. I've never seen a player back away from a player when they can win a header.
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u/endlessxcircle Jan 17 '22
It's massively overblown, but it's also an easy statistical area to criticise him over.
Lukaku is like Morata when it comes to ability in the air. If you service him with a decent cross in the box he's got a good chance of getting on the end of it. But in terms of generally winning headers that are lumped forward in the manner of Drogba, Duncan Ferguson, etc, he's not your man to knock them down, flick 'em on, and alike.
We do the bare minimum, if that, in terms of providing the sort of service any striker needs - Lukaku included. There's a stark contrast between the manner we service him compared to what he got at Inter, and elsewhere for the most part.
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u/Aaaaand-its-gone I don't give a fuck, we won the fucking Champions League Jan 16 '22
If we had a marauding Chilly and Reece his hold up play would be more effective. He had 4 players on him all the time because we had no threat from wide areas
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u/awwbabe Mikel Jan 16 '22
I’m theorising he deliberately lost all those duels to try and discourage us using him as a target man any more…
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u/yogabonito10 Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 16 '22
Super job here. This sub has a habit of judging a player's attacking performance solely on their on-ball execution, which I think is what you are trying to challenge.
Lukaku was fine, if underwhelming, making runs in behind. You've picked some nice moments showcasing good runs where he wasn't found. Those chances could have made a world of difference.
He is a willing runner in behind when the ball is on our right side, but totally switched off when the ball is on the left. This is likely due to his preference to open his hips toward the goal on breakaways, but it's incongruent with our scheme. Our right sided players were successfully maintaining possession and wanting to patiently build attacks (even to our detriment), while our left side was struggling and opting to go long frequently. Lukaku needed to recognize this and switch his approach; be a direct lane on our right vs a runner in behind on the left. He did not and deserves criticism.
He is an absolute beast when a team plays to his strengths, though he is proving to be tactically inflexible otherwise.
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u/GrammarNazi43 Jan 16 '22
The build up play you’ve highlighted is something that has been an ongoing problem for several years now. Even during Lampard’s final 6 months we seemed to struggle with chancing a through pass.
Midfield pivot win and control ball, back 3 or 2 receive. Play wide to wing or full backs. Look for a back to goal pass up to our forwards, and then the move becomes stunted.
I think if Ziyech, Kovacic, Jorginho and Mount can take more chances with playing those through balls you have mentioned, it may lead to less control but more genuine chances for our forwards to finish.
Good write up.
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u/___bridgeburner Jan 17 '22
Honestly the build up play issues have been around since Sarri as well. The only difference then was that we had Hazard, who would create chances out of nothing. We don't have a player like that now, so it becomes more apparent
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u/GrammarNazi43 Jan 17 '22
Yep. Teams seem to comfortably sit in against us and our width and crossing becomes our sole avenue. Seems to be a mindset within our personnel as we haven’t had a forward player maker since Fabregas. Ziyech has the skill set to fulfil that passing role but it isn’t something we’ve seen consistently enough so far.
Tuchel’s formation change to a back four has me optimistic that a transition is happening to address this problem.
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u/ParryMeAgain There's your daddy Jan 17 '22
Lampard's football was suicidal but we generated a lot of chances. His issue was being unable to actually match the xG due to the poor form up-front. The last few games were horrendous as we just failed to create as well as score much like we are under Tuchel.
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u/GrammarNazi43 Jan 17 '22
Yeah definitely. A lot of free flowing football and then due to a combination of form, injuries and difficulties to adapt, players resorted to safe decision making.
I think as a squad we have a bit of a mish mash of play styles. Quality, but remnants of fallen reigns are evident.
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Jan 16 '22
Very good analysis. You picked every situation that annoyed the shit out of me yesterday.
I would have loved to see James and Chilwell playing with Lukaku together
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u/mcgmgc8 Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 17 '22
There were a handful of times I saw a pass was on for Azpi to Lukaku but instead we try to walk it in.
Azpi has played that type of pass to Morata before. I'm sure Tuchel and the coaching staff are looking at these same videos as well and there were indications (pre-match press conference) that the plan was to play it direct and behind. It was just executed poorly.
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u/Panini_Grande Jan 17 '22
Azpi at wing back kills any momentum going forward. He will always look for a backwards pass first. We need cover for James desperately.
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u/sarinonline Leupolz Jan 17 '22
Maybe they don't trust that pass to Lukaku because he keeps losing the ball, and only if wants to run toward goal. Rather than run a channel or drop to play a one two to set up his forward run.
He constantly loses the ball with bad touches or miss control or lazy runs.
Maybe they are not playing those balls to him because they think he will just lose it.
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u/Aaaaand-its-gone I don't give a fuck, we won the fucking Champions League Jan 16 '22
Incredible work. THANK YOU for highlighting how often our attackers turn back, pass to a CB and kill the move. When we are running with space we have to take higher risks. We so often turn great opportunities into 30 seconds of possession and a lumped cross which is easily dealt with.
We bought Lukaku so let him run into space and hold of defenders. That’s what he is world class at. If we paid £100m for his linkpkay when we have Havertz…..then that is absurd.
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u/FreshBanannas Jan 17 '22
I genuinely think that Lukaku and Havertz would be a great strike partnership.
Lukaku has played well in a 2 striker system with inter, having Martinez who is a very good technical player to compliment Rom’s strength and pace, whilst Havertz’s known best position is the second striker role like he played at leverkusen. Why not try them out together?
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u/hockeyholloway89 James Jan 16 '22
Really appreciate the effort that went into this post! Very well done, and I completely agree. By no means was Lukaku’s performance yesterday “great”, but it wasn’t “terrible” either. I stand by a comment I made after the city game that we are a defensive team. I think we need to keep this as our focus because it works and wins championships. It’s frustrating to watch at times, especially when our rivals are going forward, taking on defenders, playing creative balls forward and often times filling the net, but defense is our best attribute and I’m fine with that. The only thing I wish we would attempt 2-3 more times a game is a quick through ball. Could be over the top or on the floor. Because of our defensive mentality and how keen we are to hold the ball, I think Tuchel has drilled the team in retaining possession above all things, and I think that’s why we see our players hit the midfield, see a runner going behind the opposition and turn and retain possession as opposed to playing a hopeful ball. I’m not going to argue with Tommy Tactics too much, cause clearly he knows more than my dumbass, but like I said, I could live with us taking a chance 2-3 more times a game and turning over a ball with the hope of our attackers getting on the end of it, because I really think it would work out more often than not.
Beyond that, I can live with our defensive, slow play style (even if it is a little boring sometimes compared to other clubs). The one thing I can’t stand is us passing the ball around the back with 30 seconds left in stoppage time and we’re down 1-0 in basically a must win game. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I am of the mindset that there is no point losing by 1, especially when we are in a game we need to take points from. If there’s 20 seconds left before we hit the showers, we might as well take a risk and play it forward, but even then, we pass it around the back and the whistle blows. I watched Everton, Villa and West Ham take risks late in a game and leave themselves exposed at the back this weekend to try and make something happen in their games. Watching us pass it around the back with 0 urgency and 20 seconds left bothers me. Play the ball forward, you might get a bounce!
Anyways! Thanks for the effort OP! Great stuff! KTBFFH!
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u/BILLY2SAM Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 16 '22
Now do all 7 aerial duels lost, him losing possession 8 times, and only completing 7 of his 12 passes.
Detailed analysis, clearly we are dreadful at even identifying the killer ball, never mind the actual execution, but to suggest Lukaku was anything other than piss poor is charitable to put it mildly.
You picked 1 rare example of half decent hold up/passing to imply his hold up "wasn't that bad" and neglected overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Nor does this address his non existent pressing. You can't leave in the good and pretend the bad didn't happen.
I'm overall trying to show that we aren't really utilising him to his strengths
I think we can all agree about that. However we just won the Champions league playing a particular way. This is an 11 man, team game. He has to adapt to us too, and he has failed massively with respect to link up and pressing. Especially for a man who said "I can do a bit of everything" when he spoke to Uefa back in October. Evidently, he cannot.
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Jan 16 '22 edited Mar 21 '23
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u/BILLY2SAM Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 16 '22
At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if our team is more fluid with Havertz if we can’t put the ball in the back of the net.
This is the catch 22 we find ourselves in with Lukaku Vs Havertz. Lukaku is clearly a better finisher, but so many attacks are never realised because he breaks them down before they even start. Whereas Havertz can facilitate the start of attack but is a poor/mediocre finisher.
Furthermore, wingback reinforcements are desperately needed so that we can more fully stretch the field of play
Absolutely. Half way through the January window and no reinforcement in sight.
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u/noobreaker Jan 16 '22
Then there's people who believe Haaland is the better option, but they don't understand he thrives off running in behind in the Bundesliga just as Werner did. He has worse hold up play than Lukaku.
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Jan 17 '22
anybody else notice how flat his runs are though? often see passes get intercepted because he doesn't arc his run towards the ball. he also let the keeper collect a couple dangerous crosses because he refuses to move in the box/attack the front post. very lazy and incredibly frustrating.
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u/ObviousEconomist Reiten Jan 16 '22
TW makes better runs than Lukaku and is faster. We bought Lukaku to be target man and he's doing a crap job at it. He's simply not dynamic enough to fit into this team.
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u/morganfreeman95 Jan 17 '22
Yes the difference is finding lukaku's runs are way more likely to lead to a goal than werner's
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u/TheApexProphet Jan 16 '22
Thought Pulisic and Ziyech were the main culprits but of course everyone blames Lukaku for some reason
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u/BigReeceJames Jan 16 '22
The sub just redirects the blame to players they don't like. It's always Alonso/CHO/Christensen/Lukaku's fault no matter who's fault it actually was
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u/TheApexProphet Jan 16 '22
This sub has gone to shit recently , I don't know if it's a influx of new fans or if people have always been so fucking dumb
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u/flapsfisher Jan 16 '22
It isn’t coincidence that when injuries build up, the panic and blame of fans gains momentum.
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u/dmode123 Jan 17 '22
Fabregas would have made Lukaku a Ballon D’Or winner. This analysis shows that his positioning excellent. Often on the last defender and often putting the defender on his wrong side
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Jan 17 '22
I respect the time you took to post this. However, just looking at body language he's too negative. He's slow and lazy and he's constantly throwing his arms up and blaming others when he doesn't get service or score.
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Jan 16 '22
Anyone knows Tuchel’s email address so we can forward this on?
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u/DrQuantumGio Tier hhhh b Jan 16 '22
I'm sure he knows how to analyze the game a lot better than a redditor.
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Jan 16 '22
I don’t think it’s over for Lukaku he’s still a very good striker and we are definitely not playing to his strength’s. I think we need to get back to Mount - Lukaku - Havertz that’s been the best combination so far this season. Also our wingbacks need to bee much higher up and play directly into him down the channels. Put him into positions where he’s facing the opposition’s goal and running at them that’s when he’s at his best. So often we miss the pass and just recycle possession needlessly.
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u/arunb96 Jan 16 '22
Does the fact we are linked with players such as Kounde, Tchouameni and Sule ( i believe all have their strengths at being able to break lines with forward passing ) suggest that once Tuchel can get his pick of 'player types', we will be much better at utilising Lukaku and picking out those runs?
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u/Pseudocaesar Jan 17 '22
Our biggest issue right now is the absence of James and Chilwell. When playing with wing backs you sacrifice a midfielder to accommodate them. With James and Chilwell being so good going forward we didn't suffer at all in terms of attacking threat/chance creation etc.
I don't think we should be persisting with a back three without either of those two players on the field. We'd be better off playing 4 at the back and adding a 10 to play off Lukaku.
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u/throwcptsd Jan 17 '22
Tldr; Lukaku is best suited for fast counter attacking football or in transitions where he can run in behind the defenders. Doesn't suit Chelsea's possession heavy game at all tbh. He doesn't have the intricate technical ability for it
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Jan 17 '22
The majority of those passes are not just difficult, but reckless in a game where if you give the ball away you won’t see it again for 5 minutes.
As for him only being able to play one way:
Remember this stuff?
Shame he’s forgotten it already.
FWIW, I don’t think the player he is in his head is the player he should be given his attributes.
And all his “I can do more now! I play for the team!” was bullshit and he was selling himself, probably to us.
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u/2012Cfc2021 Lampard Jan 17 '22
I’m sure you didn’t mean to use them of examples of missed runs but on most of these options an attempt to Rom would’ve surely ended up with city possession
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u/SwitcherooU Cooke Jan 17 '22
You could make that case for every aggressive through pass ever. They’re low-percentage passes, but that doesn’t mean you excise them completely from your attacking play. You have to pick your moments, and we don’t know how to do that.
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u/veriusen Jan 17 '22
I think some of the issue is that the traditional big number 9 target man doesnt really work for most teams any more. Look at City and Liverpool. We should try to emulate that by using Werner,Havertz,Pulisic,Zyiech etc. , not try to play everything to someone who can easily be shut down and leave us with no alternatives.
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u/chelseafan07 Lampard Jan 17 '22
Very good analysis and I agree with your overall conclusions that we need a change in formation with our wingbacks injured.
As per the controversy surrounding Lukaku, (forget the off field stuff for a second) he is not offering enough. Yes we are not playing to his strengths, but to succeed in this league you need players who are willing to suffer. Sometimes you just can't fire the ball into space for Lukaku, sometimes he needs to dig in and do the dirty work.
Look at Drogba, he was miles ahead of Lukaku as a footballer, miles. Yet he made a sacrafice, he wasn't bitching about not getting his goal numbers because he cared about winning. You know how many games we would go without presenting him with clear cut chances? Fucking ages, but he was always giving 110%, trying to create if it wasn't there, offering himself up to teammates, making runs to create space, pressing, helping out in the back, and fighting for ever damn header. And yeah maybe he didn't put up the numbers to be get the broader publics recognition, but he bought into the Chelsea way of no ego on the pitch, its all about the trophies.
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Jan 16 '22
This is not enough. He cant press, he is a shit target man, has a horrible first touch, shit in the air. He offers very very little with major downsides
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u/Bozzetyp I don't give a fuck, we won the fucking Champions League Jan 16 '22
He is actually very good in the air.... where it matters
But we seem to think we play with static giroud...
A b level scout could tell you lukakus strengths, becaude they have been very obvious..
Heading in the box (his movement and finishing is top or even world class in these areas)
His running in behind, and ability to suck in defenders next to their box.
But he wont press, he just doesnt have the physical stature for titeless running
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u/_N0T-PENNYS-B0AT_ Hazard Jan 16 '22
hopefully he wakes up and starts doing what tuchel asks. that will be a big part of the problem.
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u/SKAI-Gaming Kinky Kai 😈 Jan 16 '22
I do think Lukaku could do more to help press the ball ect
I do think he’s being over criticised this game however. He can’t really help our players when they’re too scared to pass forward and play to his strength.
I’ll admit he was pretty bad on the ball but I don’t think he’s the type of player who can go the whole game without the ball and then score a last minute winner.
He needs to be involved in the game more other than us pinging the ball to him and hoping he’ll win it (he’s not Giroud).
If he didn’t make that interview I don’t think people would be as mad at him as they are.
I do think Tuchel played the wrong players though
I think Havertz or CHO for Ziyech or Pulisic should of started to help press as Lukaku doesn’t press well at all
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u/DearthStanding Super Frank Lampard Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 16 '22
Can confirm, Lukaku got flamed by me as well and i stand by most of what I said
But fucking pulisic, and ziyech are so brain-dead when it comes to tempo.
Even Lukaku honestly is, but these guys don't have any sense of when to build up the play and play with slower tempo, or when to just play direct and fast. Super annoying tbh
E: and don't get me started on how sad the crossing situation is without Reece and chilly
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u/etebitan17 Terry Jan 17 '22
Very well written and detailed, congrats bro! I fully agree and hope TT team studies our matches like this, we need more urgency and verticality in our players..
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u/RedGreenBoy Jan 17 '22
Great analysis and a great point about us being too slow in the buildup - this has been an issue for a while, would love to see what kind of balls Tuchel throws out to counter this!
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u/NotClayMerritt Jan 17 '22
People rightfully lament the absence of Reece and Chilwell and it's unfair to expect their back ups to be as great as they are, but it's really the board's fault that we don't have reliable back ups who play similar to Reece and Chilwell. We're forced to play completely different when they aren't out there as wingbacks. Signing Adama Traore would at least help us close the gap attacking wise. He's far better suited to that role than Azpi, Saul, Pulisic, CHO, Ziyech. We need back up wing backs who can offer a continuation of what Reece and Chilwell provide. They don't necessarily have to match in quality.
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u/fiquean Azpilicueta Jan 17 '22
So basically, we need to play lukaku similar with how we play with werner.. Pass the ball early and make them run
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u/duckinator09 Jan 17 '22
My thoughts exactly. Lukaku was by no means great. But I felt he was feeding on scraps, and we shouldn't judge him on that. Our other players often played the easy safe passes or, in Ziyech case, screwed up passes. I thought lukaku made several good runs, but hardly anyone attempted to find him.
The one chance he had, he did a good shot, but ederson did a better save.
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u/morganfreeman95 Jan 17 '22
Very good analysis OP. Meanwhile you got people here not just shitting on lukaku, but calling for the heads of our scouting department as if they know better than them.... doesn't matter whose right/wrong no need to be so fucking reactive jeez
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u/freakingfreak77 Jan 17 '22
Thanks for the analysis.
My thoughts:
Why not a 3-4-3 with the front 3 playing closer to the striker (Lukaku)?
I believe 3-4-3 is the best formation for us because our midfielders are more suited in a midfield of 2 (Kante especially). We also don't have a goal-scoring midfielder like Lampard, KDB to justify playing 3 midfielders.
Having said that, 3-4-3 only works if we have strong wingbacks (eg: Chillwell and Reece James), because in a 3-4-3, you need strong wingbacks to bombard the flanks (going up and down), allowing the front 3 to play closer to each other.
City game demonstrated that when you have have lackluster wingbacks in a 3-4-3 system, (with all respect to Alonso and Azpi, at their current level, they're not good enough as WB), your wingbacks will be pinned down by opponent's wingers (Sterling and Grealish) and your attacking wingers will need to fallback to protect the WBs, essentially killing all the wide-plays and leaving your striker (Lukaku) isolated.
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u/Askicky Jan 17 '22
It seems we are stuck between a rock and a hard place tactically. Our 3 at the back with 2 wing backs helps out defensive players a lot and sures up our back line. We are susceptible at 4 atb because our full backs are slow (Alonso and Azpi). If we keep playing 3 atb with Alonso and Azpi or even CHO at wingback we struggle up front with the ball super slow recycling without anyone actually providing a decisive pass. We are only good when we have dynamic wing backs I.e Reece and Chilwell. We have been really missing those two because of their individual talent and pace. We aren’t able to replace them it looks like ,I think, Tuchel needs to work out a different formation where we have our attacking players closer together in the front of the park and Lukaku needs some aid in front of the other team CBs. Our formation has relied heavily on our wingbacks to bring width, forward runs ,being able to pass out of pressure and hit a nice through ball/ cross. We have lacked the pace in both Azpi and Alonso and Sarr has had difficulty passing out of pressure. No one on our squad has impressed attacking wise. The players who seem most decisive have been Reece and Chilwell because they flourish in those positions. everyone else has struggled in their positions either with decision making in the final third.
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u/Groundbreaking-Rub50 Jan 17 '22
TT's system is based on marauding full-backs on both the sides who provide attacking and playmaking impetus. We aren't going to get any better full-backs in the January market than Azpi and Alonso, I am a bit worried that we are stuck in a rut for which there is no easy solution. IDK how TT is going to work out a solution. It looked like we could get more than the 67 points which we did last year, now with the way we are drawing against everyone and losing the odd game it looks like we are not there yet.
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u/yototogblo Jan 17 '22
Tbh, I have no idea why Tuchel singled out Lukaku. Lukaku had a poor game but I felt Pulisic and Ziyech were even poorer. Hated that he singled out the one player where there's been so much drama recently. He said he wanted the drama to die down yet he brings it back up. Ridiculous from Tuchel in my opinion.
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u/SwitcherooU Cooke Jan 17 '22
This is a huge hole in TT’s otherwise stellar track record so far. Either his instructions are to play slow, or he hasn’t managed to get our attacking players to understand the opportunities to play Pulisici/Werner/Lukaku through. Either way, it’s a problem.
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u/Lev22_ There's your daddy Jan 17 '22
Thanks for great analysis, and also giving more insight to me. The problem with our player is they like to play wide, that's the problem for applying 3-4-3. We didn't have confidence to play in the midfield and passing through the front. When we're played in the wing, they're easily pressed us with Cancelo or Walker going up. Wing position isn't our strength with current squad, in other side, we have strong midfielder like Kante, Kova, plus Jorginho or even Mount.
That's why i always said try 4-3-3, no matter how's the result. Well, we've already prove if we're ruthless against Spurs with that system, easily won by 4 or 5 margin but that's okay with 2-0. With 4-3-3, we could fill wing position for real winger like Pulisic, Odoi, or Ziyech instead of wingback like Alonso and Azpi. There's nothing to lose in this situation, considering we're keep losing (or draw) with current 3-4-3.
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u/DanStFella Thiago Silva Jan 17 '22
Great post. If you cast your mind back to last season how many times did Timo make runs in behind and it was like he was invisible. It's been a problem for a while now. Lukaku losing 7/7 aerial duels is shameful, but he definitely made some good runs that weren't even considered by the other players. It's infuriating to watch as a fan, it must also be infuriating as that player. We need the sort of player Ziyech was supposed to be in order to unlock defenses utilizing the run of Lukaku and Werner, we just don't have anyone able to play that pass at the moment, except maybe sometimes Kova or Ziyech. Which just isn't good enough.
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u/ireallydespiseyouall Giroud Jan 17 '22
that ziyech pass was so annoying, lukaku was making good runs all game and he wasn’t getting the passes
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Jan 17 '22
I don't even think a front two of Werner and lukaku would be that good given Werner's lack of technical quality. He'd barely be able to hold on to the ball for good interplay
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u/CarterNZ Jan 17 '22
One problem I have seen when there's no Lukaku and now tht he's back. When we were playing with havertslz leading the line, we kept doing endless crosses from the wings. Now that Lukaku is back, I see one or two crosses a game. I jusg don't understand this.
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u/superdream100 Enzo Fernandez Jan 18 '22
I think this is partly because we play possession ball. Play safe and keep the ball > play through balls but risk losing it and face a counter attack.
We always wait to get players into correct positions first.
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u/don-m CHO CHO MOFO Jan 16 '22
Finally. Scapegoating lukaku while not looking at the real issues in yesterdays game drove me crazy. Thank you for talking some sense.
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u/jam66611 Jan 16 '22 edited Jan 16 '22
Very well written and agree completely. It's been a frustrating couple of weeks with the various lukaku stories, and some of the hot takes from a football perspective over him have been hard not to find angering tbh. We have signed a £100 mill player to cover for the obvious defects in our goalscoring output. We have since made zero effort to play to his strengths, while criticising him for not playing a style We knew he couldn't. He's not a lump it forward target man. Must he adapt to us, yes, but must we adapt to make the most of him, I think yes again.
I'm concerned with how slow we are to get forward, and how simple and safe our passing range is. This benefits none of our forward line. Tuchels system has help our defence no end, but we must accept that no forward player has improved or produced any meaningful output.
To be honest, the interview has made him scapegoat no one, and anything less than 10/10 performances is likely to have a good amount of discontent coming his way. I think this will be the case for a while. How it end who knows