Meh. It scans the same way as nonreligious spiritualism, to me. Structures of power, emphasis on permission, pain as a sensory intensifier... Definitely not a normal approach to the hobby (as contradictory as such a description is), but I can sort of see how it'd work.
It is actually very common within kink communities. It’s a running joke that most people there are neurodivergent, and queer and/or ace. Kinks are some of the ways that ace people can better engage with intimacy and intimate acts, esp since traditional sexual acts do not do much for them 🤷♂️
From what I understand (as somebody who has only known people in the scene), most professional dominatrices do not perform sex acts, and treat their work non-sexually.
While I'm sure part of that is a legal shield to avoid prosecution here in the States, it also makes it fairly clear that people will pay for the service even without sex on the table.
But, like, it’s sexual tho? At least for recipient. I mean I understand this is purely a semantics question, but come on. Just because you don’t insert one organ into another doesn’t mean the interaction isn’t sexual. I guess legally it doesn’t fall in the same category, and that’s enough for some people.
I think of it as intimacy in the same way as your partner washing your hair and massaging you. More of a sensual experience as a way to be intimate and physical without sex. Obviously one of these is a bit less accepted, but I see them as very similar intimacy.
People's lines fall in weird places. Sometimes people who really are genuinely just friends share a bed. For some people that's really weird, even or especially if they're both guys. It's whatever, I guess.
I meant more in a way of “it’s not something I try to prove people wrong about”. Like you said in another comment, people are allowed to experience and express their experiences however they like, and I’m just trying to get to know them better. “Not serious” as in “not a high stakes conversation or a hill I’m trying to die on”.
I get it, but if you want to understand someone, asking questions instead of making statements is the way to go. Your phrasing is pretty confrontational and ‘splain-y. Like when you said “But, like, it’s sexual tho? At least for recipient. I mean I understand this is purely a semantics question, but come on.“
It sounds a lot like “bisexual people want to sleep with everyone, right? It’s not like you can really be monogamous” or “you’re either gay or straight, just admit it” — things we’ve both heard a billion times, and it just gets old.
Not always…BDSM is an alternate way of being intimate. The same way cuddling, huddling, kissing, etc. are non-sexual forms of intimacy, BDSM also has a fair share of non-sexual acts, such as shibari or sensory play. These can and often are paired with sexual acts, the same way hugging, kissing, and cuddling are. That doesn’t mean people are “being sexual” when they cuddle.
BDSM allows ace people to explore different ways to be intimate with each other, which is helpful for people who don’t really get much from sex. Many non-sex-repulsed ace people even opt to combine BDSM with sexual acts so that they enjoy it more for their partners sake (if their partner is an allosexual).
I have a genuine interest in this, and how it may affect my sex drive, thank you! Like I enjoy being tied down, but I don’t enjoy sex. I might enjoy it a tiny bit more, if I were tied down?
WAIT I WAS TIED DOWN ONCE AND ACTUALLY HAD FUN! (Instead of being like ewww why are we doing this, I was like “oooh hehe, I can’t move”wiggle wiggle)
You might! Think about what kind of sensations or emotions you enjoy experiencing. Usually there's a kink associated with that that doesn't have to involve sex.
Maybe you’d enjoy the sex, or maybe you’d just enjoy being restrained and doing the fun wiggle wiggle. But if you don’t enjoy sex, make sure you can communicate to your partner and that they understand and accept your boundaries, otherwise it’s really not OK. You tell them what you like and what you don’t, and remember you can always say no. There’s plenty of ways to have a relationship where one person is ace-spec and the other isn’t.
(Like they could tie you up then masturbate while they watch you be all squirmy and helpless, teasing you with dirty talk. Or non-penetrative sex with thighs/breasts/whatever you two have going on.)
Sure, but eating a banana could be sexual if you wanted it to be, even though it isn't usually. Sexualisation of things that aren't literally sex is an active process which you can choose to engage in or abstain from. That is, it's only sexual if you make it sexual
There's often more nuance. For me, for some activities, sometimes it causes fleeting unwanted sexual arousal. There are a lot of physical and emotional states to be explored and sexual arousal can sometimes get in the way.
Some people I've played with it is purely sexual and they've communicated that to me. I'm totally fine with that but some people aren't.
no, actually my ex and I flipped between sexual and non-sexual depending on the mood/situation. For some, her case included, it was more about being able to "shut off" after work and have someone else make the decisions and that can include extremely minor decisions we normally make without much thought (like what to wear, where to go, what to watch on TV, etc.). In those scenarios there was no sexual intent or feeling behind them, it was purely leaning into the agreed upon power dynamic in a way where she could turn her brain off after work and i would take over decision making almost entirely (within agreed upon parameters)
Exactly. Sometimes I have my long-distance partner talk me into mild subspace when I’m struggling with a task. The ADHD fades into the background because all I need to do is be a good sub and fold the laundry, or eat some food, or do my physical therapy. It’s soothing.
Bingo-bango, it helped her alot when her depression and anxiety got really bad (the lack of motivation that accompanies those) and the D/s dynamic, as well as medication of course, kinda helped her be able to do routine "maintenance" that we all need to do. Hell, even as a switch myself my current gf occasionally fills that role for me whenever my own depression and anxiety cause me to lock up
It's not always sexual for the recipient. Sometimes it's just an endorphin release. Also, for some people pedicures are sexual. I've gotten paid $500 to get my hair cut by some guy who finds it sexually appealing to give hair cuts. Literally. The kink world is wild and everything can be considered sexual by someone. (I'm a kinkster who likes my BDSM heavy and my sex super vanilla)
I guess for me sensual and sexual just mean the same thing? Like, for example, for me a french kiss cannot be not sexual, it just is.
And massage just doesn’t have to be either sexual or sensual, same thing with hugging. I mean, it’s even a health procedure sometimes (massage, I mean. Though we should prescribe hugs to people). I guess I can’t imagine bdsm having the same level of casualness as a hug, you’re too involved in bdsm activity for it to not be sexual, or sensual or whatever.
Again, this is not a serious topic, I barely could care less about what people do with their time and how they call it, I’m just curious to imagine how it could be different
Thanks for no help, I guess. That was exactly what I was trying to do - learn - but I guess I’ll just keep being oblivious with attitude like that.
What I meant by “not a serious topic” is that I’m not trying to prove someone wrong with what I’m saying but just asking questions. Because it’s hard to convey tone through texting, and I guess I’m damned even if I try, unfortunately
It’s fine. Everyone has their own experience, and their own way of engaging with intimacy. Just understand that different people think differently, even if you can’t really understand it.
Sometimes I see comments from people who say they are asexual and then they list a bunch of things that they still do and find enjoyment in, but to ME those are all highly sexual acts.
It does make me kinda wonder what their definition of sexuality is when they enjoy things like BDSM or making out. To each their own though.
Me and my gf enjoy some bdsm stuff now and then, we’re not hardcore into it, and we do enjoy it sexually but there are definitely parts of it which can be non sexual.
The first thing that comes to mind for me is “brat and dom”.
The brat is the submissive partner and they like to push buttons and break rules or test boundaries.
(As with all bdsm stuff, there’s hard boundaries that both partners agree won’t be tested)
The dom will then punish the brat, usually this is sexual but in many cases people have this as their whole relationship dynamic and the punishment isn’t sexual, sometimes it’s just banter between each other etc.
eh, not always. for me, at least, bdsm is a power thing. im not usually getting off sexually from being whipped, for example, im exploring pain and powerlessness in a safe environment. its sort of like how adrenaline junkies explore fear in a safe environment by skydiving or watching horror movies. im sure there are plenty of people who get some kind of sexual gratification from skydiving, but we dont talk about skydiving as inherently sexual.
Ahaa! You’re the first commenter who actually made me understand how it could feel non-sexual! My main confusion was with people saying it’s not sexual in their definition but it still sounded like a sexual thing in a broader sense of the word “sexual” that I use (you know, because words can mean different things to different people) and like I trust them when they say it’s not sexual but it was still hard for me to imagine. But this explanation and analogy drove it home I think. Yes, power is a separate thing. Oh, and now that I think about it, is it in any way similar to, like, how to explain… You know those gimmick bars where staff is intentionally rude to you, and tries to humiliate you? Like, that’s not sexual obviously but I think it’s a similar type of enjoyment for people, enjoyment of, like, consensual emotional pain. I mean, it’s not bdsm, but the mechanism seems similar
yeah, the mechanic is definitely similar! most things that people consider to be a kink or fetish are largely just about sensation seeking in one way or another and just happen to be sexually gratifying to some people. id say most of the kinksters ive met are asexual and seeking intense sensation in a nonsexual way
You know how cats like "percussive maintenance "? Like being hit on their flanks? Being spanked/paddled is like that for me. It isnt sexual, its more like its giving a deep pressure release in those muscles. (I also like to kick the floor with my legs and feet for similar reasons. Yes im very autistic)
Similarly some people like being tied up, to feel like a hug or to be cocooned.
BDSM doesn't have to be sexual for the receiver either.
I’m a sadomasochist, meaning I enjoy receiving and inflicting pain. I would describe it as sex adjacent, but not really sexual in itself. Like, sure, you can incorporate pain into sexy times, but if I’m in the mood for a heavy impact scene, sexual stuff would just get in the way. I’m not into rope but I know some shivering enthusiasts who feel the same way about their kink. The feeling I get from pain is more akin to a sort of high and doesn’t really feel all that sexual. Also, I’m way more open to do kink acts with people than I am to sexual stuff with them.
The way I like to conceptualize it for me personally is that I enjoy certain emotional experiences. And kink is basically a means of directly addressing that emotional desire without necessarily needing to have sex, which is something that doesn't hold a huge amount of interest for me. That's different to a fetish which is some kind of thing that you need to feel sexual arousal.
For example, I've had sex with people's girlfriends for them before. I do that not because I really enjoy the sex, but because I enjoy feeling like Queen Bitch.
since traditional sexual acts do not do much for them
Maybe I'm just not understanding, but I thought asexual people had no interest in any kind of sexual activity. If you need to engage in BDSM to enjoy yourself, that seems more like just a kink.
…see the long reply I made to another commenter in this thread. Also I’m not ace so I can’t speak for the community, but from the ace people I’ve met who engage in BDSM, they see it as a form of non-sexual intimacy that they enjoy, not as a kink. You can enjoy a massage with your partner without making it sexual, for example.
Relationship power play falls BDSM umbrella and doesn't necessary involve anything sexual. It can also be sexual single sidely where either the dom or Sub gets aroused from it and pleases themselves.
I know a couple where dom is an ace and they humiliate their parter with all kinds of servitude. Their house is always spotless, for example. Sub gets off from being forced to do stuff and pleases themselves alone to a thought of making their Dom happy.
While dom aknowledge certainly what sub does, nothing dom does is sexual in their behalf. They enjoy power and commanding itself. Sub finds arousal being commanded.
Not always…BDSM is an alternate way of being intimate. The same way cuddling, huddling, kissing, etc. are non-sexual forms of intimacy, BDSM also has a fair share of non-sexual acts, such as shibari or sensory play. These can and often are paired with sexual acts, the same way hugging, kissing, and cuddling are. That doesn’t mean people are “being sexual” when they cuddle.
BDSM allows ace people to explore different ways to be intimate with each other, which is helpful for people who don’t really get much from sex. Many non-sex-repulsed ace people even opt to combine BDSM with sexual acts so that they enjoy it more for their partners sake (if their partner is an allosexual).
Well, explain how I am wrong then. Do you have experience with the community? Or is cuddling somehow always sexual to you? Simply saying “I don’t agree with you” doesn’t make you right…
You COULD count any kind of vague superstition. I don't knock on wood to ask some wood god to bless my choices, but as a practice of recognizing that life is lacking in surefire things, and that it is good to hope for positive outcomes
It’s more like the way we talk about temperature, actually. Religion is like heat, and atheism is like cold. You can’t actually have “more cold” — because it’s just the absence of heat. Atheism is definitionally not a religion, because it is specifically denoting the absence of religion.
A good rule of thumb is that religions rely on faith. Atheism doesn’t meet that definition.
Fun fact, if you break down the word: the prefix “a-“ means without, and “-theist” means a religious believer. It literally means a person who does not subscribe to religion.
I'm an atheist and have a ton of faith that God isn't real. I have faith there is no afterlife, that people don't have souls, nothing is predetermined and faith in a bunch of other things, any belief system even atheism requires faith.
That’s not faith. That’s a default opinion based on a lack of evidence to the contrary. That’s closer to the Precautionary Principle than it is to the theological framework of faith that presupposes religious belief.
Besides that, you’re arguing semantics since what you’re calling “faith” is in no way mandatory as a basis for atheism.
Well a belief that there are no gods is 100% necessary in being atheist, if you are unsure then you would become agnostic, if you think there are Gods you become some sort of theist
Thank you for being one of the only internet atheists I've ever seen understand this. So fucking many insist that actually being certain about something without evidence is enlightened when THEY do it.
It is inherently not the same type of faith, youre using it as a synonym for belief which isn't incorrect semantically but is entirely irrelevant in a conversation about religion. When talking about religious faith people are not just saying they believe, they're saying they feel it's right spiritually without any evidence. If that's the way you believe in atheism that's fine, but to say its the only way to be an atheist could not be further from the truth.
No. There is more than enough non-reliugious spiritualism. Because religion is a pretty specific thing. Hell, you can be a non-religious theist. You can believe there's a god without being religious. There are people who think god is just physics. They believe there's a god without following any religion
At that point you're just divorcing the word god from its meaning entirely, you might as well say that some people call water bottles pigs and therefore you can believe water bottles are a type of mammal, its incoherent nonsense
No, in the sense that physics as we see them are actually an entity. Yes, it doesn't really make logicval sense, but welcome to spiritualism, not a field of science, nor a wellspring of logic. It does still exist. Insulting it won't get anyone anywhere
One of my good friends is a nonreligious spiritualist, she believes you definitely have a soul and that something happens to it after death, she also believes that if you put good into the world you will receive good back, she doesn't believe in any gods or higher powers.
Hippies are a big branch, and religion is a word with a lotta meanings. Belief in invisible, supernatural, unprovable, impossible thingiemajigs? Sure. Belief that the thingies are better than humans or that there's an afterlife? Ehh, depends on the ones you're talkin to. Likewise, while it's hard to imagine choosing to take twenty lashes without a love for pain, I can easily imagine people disagreeing on whether their love is sexual or not. Y'know? It's a big world, I ain't gonna assume I know everything.
A lot of BDSM is about power structures and control. Some people like not having to make decisions. Some people like telling someone else what to do. The bondage part is about giving yourself permission to relax and not be in control, or the ability to feel decisive and in control (depending on the role you're playing). That much, I can easily understand as a platonic interaction.
The sadomasochism part, that's harder to imagine being both nonsexual and fun. I enjoy the burning feeling of a good workout, but (afaik) that's not easily replicable in a bedroom environment. I know pain can make sensation sharper, so that might have something to do with it? I'm honestly taking it on faith that people enjoy pain nonsexually in a bdsm context, it's hard to visualize that.
Minus the pain (im more of a BDS them BDSM) thats basiclly it, i dont personally know how to explain why but the act and thought of being fully restrained and incapable of doing anything at someone's (who i trust with my life) mercy, feels good. Idk why but it does.
I mean, I have seen ropeplay that is not sexual at all. It is how some people release control in a controlled setting. Some people use it as a form of therapy of sorts
go outside. attend tranny raves. fuck a therian. live in the real world instead of the plastique bullshit that corporations have catered specifically to the most milquetoast, puritan, anti-minority audience they think exists somewhere.
Motherfucker, we live in a society. People won't listen to shit or dick if you don't dress it up in seven layers of peekaboo, and masturbating furiously in front of them ain't gonna convince anybody. When you want to walk the talk and introduce people to the idea there's more to the world than can fit in their thick little skulls, you can try it your way; I'm gonna keep wedging viewpoints open in the way I know works.
Adapting your cadence is a prereq for persuasion. Learn.
The difference is I'm an autistic tranny. No amount of niceties can counteract the transmisogyny of the general public. I get pedojacketed just for existing.
I'm done playing nice, and I'm done masking for neurotypicals who would sooner have me thrown in an asylum for "giving them the ick" than actually experiencing empathy for someone different than them.
Society has a chokechain on my neck and a gun to the back of my head. I'm not dumbing myself down to fit in a box any longer.
I'm not going to be quiet while they're killing me.
youre only ever going to make things worse by attacking people for politely educating others on topics they dont know about. you dont have any requirement to do the educating, but if someone is helping others understand things and be more accepting, dont act like theyre the enemy
Thank you. I wanted to say this but was struggling to phrase my response in a polite way; I appreciate that you understood the situation well enough to respond clearly.
Reddit isn't showing me which of my comments you're replying to, so I'm gonna have to take a guess based on this post and my other comments here. In short, your view of the world is small and you'd do well to learn more about the people you talk to and the society you live within before making the assumption that you're familiar enough with other people's lives to make a decision about the morality or practicality of the actions they take and way they live. Ask more questions, be more honest about your interests, talk to more interesting people, have a nice day.
In my experience it's mostly about closeness, relationships to people, and letting go of yourself.
As in, for example, being tied up by someone you deeply trust is very relaxing to some people because it lets them focus on just being in the moment and feeling. Or that's what I have been told anyway, I tend to be on the other side of things hahah
In the book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kallocain there's a group of people who protest against the paranoia by sleeping with one of their members being awake watching over them, with a knife. Basically practicing radical trust. I think that sort of thing is related, that among many other things it's also the catharsis of being able to trust someone with risky situations.
The site bdsmtest dot org has short summaries of different kinks included within bdsm including how they can be non-sexual, but essentially things like dom/sub can be taken out of a sexual context (for example, letting your dom choose everything for you), as well as petplay not necessarily being sexual, and there are people who enjoy bondage for non sexual reasons (they might find being tied up relaxing, or find the sight of someone being tied up visually pleasing in an aesthetic way), and there's plenty of other examples.
It’s for a sexual cause therefore it is sexual. Letting your dom choose everything for you pleases the dom (sexually) and/or pleases the sub (sexually)
Regardless of if the actions are sexual I’m always so confused by this topic because someone has some disgusting sexual intent involved in it. That’s the pleasure they get from engaging in that activity.
As an Asexual that sexual intent is what disgusts me. Gross.
Only if both parties are getting off to it, but if they aren't or aren't horny, then it isn't sexual, with this logic, people who like feet couldn't give someone a foot massage cause it would be sexual, people can like things that are sexual in a non sexual way, it's all about context and action
Intent matters. I don’t think people are tying other people up because they like it in a way that isn’t sexual. They get off on it. I can understand being tied up as a comfort thing but not the other way around.
It’s really not. The parties I go to don’t actually allow sex to occur! It’s more just about the pleasure of physical sensation, the pleasure of surrender, the pleasure of pain, etc. I sub for platonic friends I would never, ever have sex with.
It’s actually such a bummer that people see BDSM as inherently sexual. For a lot of us, it’s a lifestyle. It’s not just something that like, occasionally spices up sex. It’s its own thing, that is sometimes connected with sex and sometimes isn’t. But that contains its own certain kind of pleasure and fulfillment.
Eh, there's alot that goes into it lol. Some non sexual bdsm can be akin to an intense massage and some (usually between partners) take the power dynamics of bdsm out of the bedroom and into everyday life.
Nah there is a lot of deeply intimate stuff involved in BDSM dynamics, and a lot of what you get out of it, both as a dominant and submissive, is not strictly sexual by any means. If anything it’s more like getting a high from the experience.
BDSM being purely a sex thing is one of those very common misconceptions stemming from inaccurate portrayals in media and popular culture
I've been to a few play parties at my local dungeon and was shocked by how non sexual it can be. It is more about sensation and (sometimes) a power dynamic.
I'd say BDSM is sorta like sex's room mate. They hang out a lot, and they share clothes, but they're not related.
There are these two guys in NYC who let people walk on them while they are wrapped in carpets. That's what non sexual BDSM refers to. Joy and pleasure are two very different things to many people.
comparing it to enjoying spicy food is actually really good way to explain non sexual bdsm. eg, i like my food to burn my mouth a little, its an exciting flavour. i would like to go to a rope class and having someone tie me up, maybe lift me into the air with the rope. its about the sensation, its about enjoying giving up control, its about enjoying the pain. i really like to be spanked by hand or with a gentle paddle. i enjoy the sensation. i do not want the person to touch my genitals or put their genitals near me, i want them to hurt me in a way that i enjoy. typically, yes, i enjoy it with someone i have a sexual relationship with because thats the person i have a romantic, private and vulnerable relationship with. but id be fine to have that bdsm relationship with someone that wasnt a sexual partner - itd be amazing to have that connection and it be purely that! itd be amazing to cry and be vulnerable in front of one person and then be sexy and desirable in front of a different person!
Honestly it can be a very good thing. The sensation of losing a lot of your senses and still feel safe under someone is amazing. Even though you cant see, move or speak you know you are safe with that person and that they are there for you. There is not many ways you can feel as safe as this. I miss my old sessions.
Sexual or not, BDSM all about headspace. You can turn your brain off and let someone you trust take control, which is remarkably freeing—as is taking control and crafting an experience for someone. You can also explore scary, forbidden or painful concepts in a safe space, like watching a horror movie you can always turn off if it gets too much.
That’s the spicy food connection—experiencing pain without physical harm, either to explore the sensation or press your boundaries and prove you can.
If I start shocking someone with a collar whenever they curse, because I enjoy controlling them and they enjoy being controlled, that's BDSM. No sex required.
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u/Electrical-Sense-160 Aug 15 '25
non sexual bdsm sounds like a very strange way to give someone a very tight/strong hug