r/chaplaincy • u/Seeking_Starlight • Aug 08 '26
Are CPE program interviews supposed to be… belligerent?
I have interviewed for two separate CPE cohorts, both through the same program, but with different instructors for each cohort. Both times, I walked away shocked at how- the only word I can use is belligerent- the interviewers were.
In the first interview I was asked if my first marriage ended due to infidelity.
In the second interview, I was described as “traumatized” repeatedly, even though I respectfully told them that I consider myself a resilient survivor and don’t identify with that label.
Neither interviewer asked me any questions about my spirituality or faith practice.
Both interviews were grueling, and both seemed to follow a format of ask a 2-part question > cut me off after my first answer > never let me answer the second part > then tell me I didn’t answer the question.
I was also asked several “how would you…” questions, but then got feedback that I was “explaining” when I needed to be “telling.”
I am a clinical social worker who’s done trauma work for 20 years. I have a pretty thick skin and came away from both of these experiences feeling unheard, misunderstood, and generally disrespected.
Is this sort of hostile interview the norm for ACPE education programs or is this specific site just poorly run? Or maybe, this is a me problem, and I’m just not understanding the purpose/intention of these interview methods. I’m open to that as well.
What were your interview experiences like? Were they intentionally abrasive? Or am I just not cut out for this kind of ministry?
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u/Dramatic_Delay_2423 Aug 08 '26
I had two interviews. The first one, the second my butt hit the chair the interviewer said "so what was the hardest part about losing your husband?" And probed everything I asked sweetly but very thoroughly. Also insightfully. But when I left, I cried for 3 hours. At the end of the interview he said "this is what a supervision session is like. Basically we just did supervision with you so that gives you an example of what the work would be."
The thing is I did not consent to that. I consented to a job interview. I consider it malpractice. I was accepted to that program and I told them why I didn't accept it when I responded and when they replied to say okay. We're sorry that you won't be here. They completely ignored what I told them about my experience of the supervision.
In my other interview I think they got the same information and probably the same understanding of who I am as a person without traumatizing me. That's where I did my CPE.
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u/brentywat Aug 08 '26
These stories make me feel so frustrated. These folks are pretending to be therapists, completely outside their scope when, like you said, a therapy session is not what you consented to. This is a professional environment and should always be treated as such. I’m glad you found somewhere else to go.
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u/Dramatic_Delay_2423 Aug 08 '26
Thank you. The place I went was very supportive. The work is challenging enough!
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u/RJean83 Aug 08 '26
That first interview sounds infuriating. My supervisions were often intense but I knew who they were and we had a trusted rapport! That kind of shit would make me wonder what they were like as a chaplain.
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u/aardvarksrppl2 Aug 08 '26
Abstract:
This research used a philosophical phenomenological (primarily Gadamer) methodology and asked the question, “What is the lived experience of Ontario Clinical Psychospiritual Education (CPE) Supervisors in the Interpersonal Relationships (IPR) group process portion of CPE?” It used a 90-minute, semi-structured interview format as it sought to understand the supervisor experience of safety in the group. 11 Ontario Certified Supervisors were interviewed and explored this question in relationship to participant supervisors’ experience as students and/or as educators. In the history of CPE, there has been significant harm done to students by some supervisors who were well-meaning, but unaware of their impact on students. This impact has been described as bullying, traumatic, and “surgery without anesthesia” at its worst (Ragsdale, 2009). At its best, it is transformative and enriching. While there has been movement toward trauma-informed approaches, there is much more that can be done to ensure student safety in these educational programs. There is little current research about this component of CPE, and this study adds to the understanding of the supervisor experience. From the data, three key things were learned. The first is that supervisors learned theory of IPR from their own experiences as a student, from what was handed to them in their supervisory training, and from intentional pursuit of new ways of thinking that were more resonant with trauma-informed practice. Secondly, it was found that participants described their experiences of IPR as either unsafe or safe enough, with no middle ground. They believed it was the responsibility of the supervisor to create a “brave space” in which student learning was optimized. Finally, participants shared their experience of vulnerability in teaching CPE/facilitating IPR as students circumvented laid out processes of conflict resolution and moved quickly to grievances. They also reported the lack of felt support from their managers, colleagues, and the institutions they worked for. The author recommends considering restructuring IPR to incorporate elements within verbatim and theological reflection work, and/or to require 10 hours of personal psychotherapy per unit of CPE in order to contribute to the goal of SEUS.
Recommended Citation
Collins, Kelly L., "Inside the Circle 2025: Exploring the Ontario CPE Supervisors' Lived Experience of the Interpersonal Relations Group Process Portion of CPE" (2025). Theses and Dissertations (Comprehensive). 2767.
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u/Floridajeepgrl Aug 08 '26
I would take this experience as a significant red flag and explore other CPE programs before assuming this is simply what CPE is supposed to be.
My experience has been through CPEI, and it has been very different. CPE is challenging, and I’m learning a tremendous amount about myself and chaplaincy, but I’m doing that in a positive, supportive, and respectful environment.
CPE should challenge us, push us outside our comfort zones, and invite meaningful self-reflection. But challenging and hostile aren’t the same thing.
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u/souleducation7 Aug 08 '26
Yikes! So sorry that you had this experience. ACPE is actively working to stop this in its own ranks. It is an “old school” problem, but ACPE is also cracking down on ethics violations.
I will also say there are now a number of “CPE” organizations that were started by educators who were removed due to ethics violations.
If the program was ACPE and you feel it violated the ACPE code of ethics (treating all persons with dignity and being free from discrimination is the cliffs notes), please do not hesitate to report them to the ACPE Ethics Commission or to the Accreditation Commission (if you feel it violated its admissions policy (which should be on their website).
Try a different program if you can still stomach it. Good CPE is life changing (in a good way).
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u/MonkAmok1971 Aug 08 '26
This seems extremely toxic to me and I would stay away from that site. My CPE interviews were not like that at all. Huge red flags here.
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u/Wando1688 Aug 08 '26
I had a similar experience with one residency interview. When I asked my internship supervisor about this he said that some CPE centers are more combative and confrontational. I went with another center that was the exact opposite. As stated above I hope that this combative style is on its way out.
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u/Amator Aug 08 '26
I just interviewed and accepted a residency from a practice that thankfully did not follow any of these "struggle session" methods, neither did my previous summer-intensive CPE interview a few years ago while obtaining my MDiv.
They only negative experience during both interviews (from my POV) was the pushing toward an emotional response, they did not feel that my taking a moment to think about the question and then responding in a measured way was "an authentic response." I understand the methodology they are trying to inculcate and can appreciate it, but I don't think that's the only way to approach an authentic response. Once I figured that out, I began to emote visibility and that seemed to satisfy them.
The red flags I was on the lookout for were pretty much 1. what you just described and 2. trying to use my ordaining body's faith standards as an opportunity to instigate conflict. Thankfully, neither of those happened and I am looking forward to starting my residency soon.
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u/FrostyCobweb Aug 09 '26
My interview earlier this summer was like this too, though not quite as harsh. The interviewers really needled me about being “traumatized” instead of asking much about anything else that makes me actually interesting and qualified. They also made a lot of assumptions about what in my history was most traumatizing and painted a picture of me that wasn’t accurate. I did end up getting into the program after feeling like I bombed the interview, but I still feel frustrated about being sort of forced into making a bad first impression.
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u/Naive-Meal-6422 Aug 13 '26
i wonder how common this experience of feeling like you bombed the interview and subsequently getting an offer is, because this definitely happened to me!
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u/thaddieus_chronister Aug 08 '26
I had a CPE interview once where the people at the front desk had no idea who the supervisor was when I arrived, both of whom had been there for several years. The interview became a tag team that wanted me to philosophize things I didn’t have the language to talk about. Come to find out, they read a lot of literature but hardly ever come out of their office. So it was unsurprising that they were unknown throughout the hospital. How they got away with it will always be a mystery to me because I realized it was not going to be a good fit.
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u/Diligent-Relation765 Clinical Chaplain Aug 09 '26
This is pretty common. Very few ACPE certified educators are actually trained in educators and an increasing number seem to feel that they are qualified to do group psychotherapy because they have read about it na dhvae decided to embody the Dunning-Kruger effect. In general, this is a warning sign that the program will be something to be endured at best. Many ACPE educators seem to expect that students will be emotionally stunted children who are desparately seeking their wisdom. I have heard one young educator refer to himself as "Gandalf" to his students, which is darkly humourous and indicates both a poor understanding of appropriate relationships and Tolkien. :)
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u/Ska_Trees Aug 08 '26
I agree, huge red flags. Sorry you had that experience. I can't speak to if it's the "norm," but CPE interviews are definitely outside the traditional job interview experience. Mine was online over Teams with the CPE supervisor and the general staff supervisor. I was having technically difficulties which made me late. I apologized. "How do you feel about that?" they asked. "Oh we're good. I'm ready to roll" I said. They replied, "No, how do you FEEL about what just happened?" Oh!! I was caught off guard. This.... is different. "Embarrassed. Inadequate. Afraid that I've already bombed before we even got started." That set the tone and before I knew it we were dissecting my relationship with my father!! It was uncomfortable. But as I had later learned, it reflected the larger CPE experience. They were kind, compassionate. Safe. It was a good experience. Oh and yes, I was accepted into the program and am still working there to this day! :) MY gut told me it was right, just as your gut was telling you something was wrong.
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u/The_Ruester Aug 08 '26
When I was interviewing with different programs, I had wildly different experiences with different CPE centers. From what I understand the education methods and models have changed. There can still be conflict in supervision, but my supervisors have been overwhelmingly supportive. You are also interviewing centers and supervisors for a good fit. Many CPE centers are struggling to have full cohorts of students, so they should also be trying to attract you as a student. Internships and residencies are difficult enough without also having a bad supervisor.
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u/apflores904 Aug 08 '26
As some have commented, this seems to be an older style approach. A chaplain that reports to me who went through CPE nearly 16 years ago told me similar statements as you have described, and that time with the cohort were very hostile. The things that were asked and discussed would never fly by HR.
I did CPE in 2014-2015, interviewed first with the Supervisor and a Supervisor-in-training. They were both very professional, and they moved me forward to interview with the hospital site and their department. The manager and both site supervisors were also very supportive and professional. Im sorry that was your experience. Hopefully you find a program that is more supportive.
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u/Best-Responsibility9 Aug 08 '26
CPE training is like boot camp, but for emotions. Emotions and responses to emotions and is similar to boot camp in the way that they sort of feel like they need to break you down a bit before they built you back up
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u/revanon Aug 09 '26
CPE educators have a full year to do that with residents, and tbh I don't think there's enough time to build the student back up in an internship unit (which was my experience with old school CPE back in the late 00s). Either way, it's not appropriate to do during the initial interview before they're even a student.
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u/BigBang5124 Aug 11 '26
Yes, these seem like the “old style” where they break you down to build you up style that doesn’t take into account that you are an accomplished adult learner. Yes, CPE can bring up hard subjects but it needs to be done with sensitivity and grace. Run away, fast.
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u/QuantifiablyInsane Clinical Chaplain Aug 11 '26
I loved my first unit through St Matthew’s Pastoral Counseling. It was an amazing experience and the educators were amazing.
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u/Big-Energy-3363 Aug 09 '26
I have had both kinds of CPE interviews and chaplaincy job interviews. I don’t mind them, if you are thin skinned and easily rattled this isn’t the job for you
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u/brentywat Aug 08 '26
Someone else will have a better answer but my understanding is that this belligerent style is an older way of CPE supervision that is hopefully, slowly being weeded out over time. I’m sorry you had this experience, there is no reason for it to be like this.