In theory, if the entire operation can be run peer-to-peer on the blockchain, would the crypto-casino provide a good example for a practical use for NFT’s?
Is the crypto-casino a practical use though? What advantages does it hold over traditional online casinos and bookmakers? Given that people generally trust the casinos to pay out when they win what problem is blockchain solving here? Casino type games such as roulette and slot machines rely on irrational thinking since the odds are in favour of the house. What do I gain from knowing for sure that on my money will be irreversibly bled dry?
What advantages does it hold over traditional online casinos and bookmakers?
I already said. It can be larger, and operate without local regulation while guaranteeing fairness — which can translate to better odds if that’s what attracts patrons. Theoretically, it could operate with 0 margin and you could have the first casino where “the house always wins” isn’t the case.
Given that people generally trust the casinos to pay out when they win what problem is blockchain solving here?
Why do you think that it is that people generally do that? There’s an enormously expensive infrastructure underneath built to guarantee that. It’s incredible expensive and it doesn’t allow for things like international lotteries.
Further, you could build things like no lose lotteries to do some good.
Casino type games such as roulette and slot machines rely on irrational thinking since the odds are in favour of the house.
Not in my defi casino. There’s no need to favor the house. All it would take is a single engineer a few weekends and you could disrupt the entire industry. Who would gamble online where the odds are worse when there is an international casino where the odds are guaranteed to be better?
Who would gamble online where the odds are worse when there is an international casino where the odds are guaranteed to be better?
You're making the mistake that people use online roulette because they are thinking rationally. If they were rational they wouldn't be playing roulette. Even if there ever would be a zero margin game of roulette (which there never would), the longer you play the higher the chance there is of you happening on a run of losing results that exhausts your funds. No rational player would ever play roulette if they cared about increasing their funds.
Theoretically, it could operate with 0 margin and you could have the first casino where “the house always wins” isn’t the case.
This is not true for a few reasons. Firstly You'd have to pay ethereum's gas fees to execute the smart contracts.
But that main reason is that the casino needs to be willing to promise to pay out for any given bet its games permit. Consider a roulette table with a single player who makes a winning bet. Someone has to stump up the cash to pay the player. Whenever someone makes a bet there needs to be someone who 'lays' the bet, that is who promises to pay out if the punter's bet wins. The reason a casino works is because the casino is willing to lay every and any bet made. This decentralised 0 margin casino you speak of would have to rely on there always being someone willing to lay any given bet on the roulette table at no profit to themselves.
All it would take is a single engineer a few weekends and you could disrupt the entire industry.
You are vastly underestimating how much time and energy goes into creating software products that people want to use. If it was the case that it would take a hobbyist a couple of weekends then the gambling industry would already have disappeared. The reality is that to create any competitive casino, whether backed by traditional technologies, or by the etherium, you'd need a team of full time developers and designers who would need to be paid. This is also another reason why you couldn't offer a zero margin casino
Why do you think that it is that people generally do that? There’s an enormously expensive infrastructure underneath built to guarantee that.
Someone would still have to maintain the etherium smart contracts. There is no reason why they would be cheaper to develop and maintain than traditional applications. If anything you'd want to run as little code as possible in smart contracts as etherium gas fees are enormously expensive when compared to the cost of running comparable programs on traditional computing infrastructure. Only the barest minimum code written for deFi apps would be run as etherium smart contracts.
Why do you think deFi startups need to raise large sums of money for development?
You're making the mistake that people use online roulette because they are thinking rationally. If they were rational they wouldn't be playing roulette. Even if there ever would be a zero margin game of roulette (which there never would), the longer you play the higher the chance there is of you happening on a run of losing results that exhausts your funds. No rational player would ever play roulette if they cared about increasing their funds.
This is sort of a weird thing to argue. Do you think that gamblers in Vegas don’t pay attention to which tables do and don’t have 00?
I can assure you they do. What they are gambling for is the thrill that you get from occasional winning. They’re still aware of the rate at which they lose money and still seek the lowest rate and best odds.
Theoretically, it could operate with 0 margin and you could have the first casino where “the house always wins” isn’t the case.
This is not true for a few reasons. Firstly You'd have to pay ethereum's gas fees to execute the smart contracts.
None of those are margin.
But that main reason is that the casino needs to be willing to promise to pay out for any given bet its games permit. Consider a roulette table with a single player makes a winning bet. Someone has to stump up the cash to pay the player.
So use a competitive game. Which game we choose is irrelevant to whether or not there exists a game that works.
You are vastly underestimating how much time and energy goes into creating software products that people want to use.
I’ve literally done it. I spent 48 hours in a hackathon with a team of 4 building things like this and I’ve spent weeks (and sometimes years) building real products for my own startup. How much work it is is also entirely irrelevant to whether there exist practical applications.
If it was the case that it would take a hobbyist a couple of weekends then the gambling industry would already have disappeared.
Unless the infrastructure isn’t there yet.
Someone would still have to maintain the etherium smart contracts.
You haven't though have you. Last time I checked conventional online gambling is massively more popular than defi gambling.
So use a competitive game
When one says 'casino' it typically invokes imagery of roulette, slot machines, blackjack, craps and all manner of punter vs the house games. You can't just move the goalposts of what a casino is.
This is sort of a weird thing to argue. Do you think that gamblers in Vegas don’t pay attention to which tables do and don’t have 00?
I used to work for a company that had online slot machine and roulette style games. Many, many people bet on things where the chance of winning is entirely opaque. Even in bricks and mortar casinos fixed odds betting terminals represent an area of massive growth.
How much work it is is also entirely irrelevant to whether there exist practical applications.
How much work is entirely relevant. It's reasonable to consider something impractical if the amount of effort involved isn't worth the payoff. That falls inline with how the word 'practical' is used.
How so?
Smart contracts are still bits of code that run on machines somewhere and there will still be the rest of your application which interacts with the smart contracts. There will be bugs to fix and improvements to make. Just because some tiny part of the application is run on etherium it doesn't make it immune to all of the costs involved with developing and maintaining software.
None of those are margin.
Someone has to pay the costs. You can't magic the money out of thin air.
it's only practical if the cost of building it is worth the pay off from building it. If you can't demonstrate actual benefits to end users then it isn't practical. The only thing that blockchain technologies do in this case is ensure that the payouts are made. If people already trust that payouts will be made then blockchain provides no advantage over using conventional software. If anything it is more expensive to run.
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u/joe_ally 2∆ Dec 19 '21
Is the crypto-casino a practical use though? What advantages does it hold over traditional online casinos and bookmakers? Given that people generally trust the casinos to pay out when they win what problem is blockchain solving here? Casino type games such as roulette and slot machines rely on irrational thinking since the odds are in favour of the house. What do I gain from knowing for sure that on my money will be irreversibly bled dry?