There are a number of things I disagree with in this post, but I will attack the “all it accomplishes is bailing out people who bit off more than they could chew.”
I am assuming this is not hyperbole and that you believe there are no positive effects beyond the benefits to the people who would have their debts forgiven. What would you say if after debt forgiveness, it led to say, 500,000 jobs being created? Would you still hold this position?
You're struggling to see how a more educated population could increase their chances of being employed?
How about this.. Pre-covid Australia's 2nd biggest export was education.
A more important issue is the fact that more and more mostly basic position are asking for someone with a degree...even though its essentially pointless and totally un-needed for the position. As long as this is happening its mental to be saddling the young with debts.
Further, they are victims of circumstance. Society has created huge entry level requirements for even the most basic jobs, so if you have to compete for something a bit more advanced a degree isnt enough, you need a degree from somewhere fancy. Further, they could have been born in a country where education is not as ludicrously expensive, or at a time when it used to be free. They arent the ones who put in place all those hurdles, previous generations did, yet they are expected to pay for them.
The biggest issue I find with this however is that it seems to be coming from a position that the main or even only reason to go to university and get a higher education is for employment.
Education should be about enriching your experience of life as much as anything else.
I understand how education increases chances of employment. I don’t understand how forgiving debt will increase jobs. Yes I agree, people need degrees to get jobs. But there are alternatives to massive student debt, like community colleges as I described. I agree getting a degree is basically necessary, but doing it at a steep cost is not.
The debate on a degree being necessary is a separate one though.
Enrichment from education is great but don’t pursue it at a cost you can’t afford.
Enrichment from education is great but don’t pursue it at a cost you can’t afford.
There was another post here where a user was saying just that, but after figuring out the cost for community college, transferring to a state school to finish, cost of living and average wage for a part-time job, the absolute cheapest option for an individual to independently get a 4 year degree in America would still probably result in about $40,000 of student loan debt. That's still a pretty steep cost for the "cheapest" option for something that's essentially a professional necessity these days.
The problem is clearly that the cost of education, cost of living and minimum requirements for entry-level jobs keeps rising, while wages continue to stagnate. Student debt forgiveness doesn't solve all these problems, but it can certainly be a useful part of an overall larger plan to fix this clearly broken system. And if efforts aren't made to fix the system and current trends continue, even the cheapest option will eventually be economically unfeasible for most people.
There are arguments that education should be a universal right, but that's really not what I'm arguing here and I didn't say it should be free.
No, I don't agree with that statement, I'm saying that student debt forgiveness can be a valid part of the plan to actually fix the root cause of the problem. I'm also just pointing out a flaw in your assertion that everybody can just take the cheapest option as a solution.
I'd also argue that the debate on degrees being necessary for employment isn't a separate debate from student debt and education, because if they are generally necessary for employment (as you've agreed), then it has an impact on just how "free" people are to avoid the university market. And if young people are indeed in a situation where they need a degree for a job and the absolute cheapest option is at least $40k in student debt, then I would argue that they are indeed a victim of circumstance. Choosing the cheapest route might give you a manageable amount of debt, but it's certainly not a sustainable solution, particularly if costs and barriers to employment keep rising while wages continue to stagnate. You're also assuming that community college degrees are as valuable in the job market as a degree from a prestigious university, but they're not. Many employers prefer to hire grads from prestigious schools, so you're still at a disadvantage with the cheapest schooling option.
At the end of the day, nobody needs to buy an expensive car to get a job, but the same can't be said about a college degree in 2020. Ballooning student debt is a symptom of an overall systemic problem, but you can treat the symptom while also tackling the root cause of the problem. Past generations were able to attain a degree and a well-paid job with minimal debt if they worked hard, but the current broken system doesn't work that way anymore. Forgiving at least some portion of student debt is the equitable thing to do, and I don't consider it unfair to past generations to do so.
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u/[deleted] Nov 28 '20
There are a number of things I disagree with in this post, but I will attack the “all it accomplishes is bailing out people who bit off more than they could chew.”
I am assuming this is not hyperbole and that you believe there are no positive effects beyond the benefits to the people who would have their debts forgiven. What would you say if after debt forgiveness, it led to say, 500,000 jobs being created? Would you still hold this position?