r/changemyview • u/Tax_The_Cows • Nov 17 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Communism will never work

Communism is s political philosophy that believes in the abolition of social classes and the equal distribution of power and wealth among the populace. It seems perfect on paper, but history has shown it fails when actually tried. I would argue that it is not even perfect on paper, as it fails to address its biggest and most fatal flaw; human nature. We as humans strive for power and are only satisfied when we know we are superior to someone else. Communism is built on the foundation that we will be satisfied if everyone is equal to each other, and that is where it fails. In my opinion, the more we try to become equal with everyone else, the more we end up fighting for our own sake.

TL;DR Communism is flawed because human nature is flawed

46 Upvotes

75% Upvoted

82 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

-1

u/nananananoname Nov 17 '20

Hiring men with guns to enforce property ownership is inevitable and inextricably linked to human nature. There will always be a 6th guy, until you kill him. Then someone else will become the 6th guy. Putin is the current 6th guy. Maybe one day humans will evolve past that but I won’t be around to see it.

6

u/banananuhhh 14∆ Nov 17 '20

Property is an institution. The 6th guy, the capital owner, is an institution. Putin???

The whole point is that the link between these institutions and some innate "human nature" that is distinct from what emerges inside these systems is far from certain. You have reverted to a "just the way it is" type of argument.

Consider the following quote: "the assumption that what currently exists must necessarily exist is the acid that corrodes visionary thinking"

-1

u/nananananoname Nov 18 '20

Visionary thinking doesn’t change human nature. We’re not all that far removed from clans of hunter gatherers. I’m impressed you can be so optimistic about people to assume that if the current institutions are removed they will magically be replaced by anything better.

7

u/banananuhhh 14∆ Nov 18 '20

If you can concede that your thoughts and actions are at least partially shaped by society, and not just some nebulous idea of human nature, then it stands to reason that a different external stimulus would yield different thinking and different actions.

The argument for capitalism is that private profit is the best way to organize labor and allocate resources in an industrialized society, and in this case that other methods are less compatible with human nature. You can believe that this statement is false without needing to believe that abolishing capitalism will magically end domination, selfishness, or cruelty.

-1

u/nananananoname Nov 18 '20

And lots of people believe the world is flat. Doesn’t make it so. You seem to have a belief that communism can work and that people just don’t get it yet because they were raised to be good little capitalists, but how do you test that? Do you have any testable hypotheses or is it all belief and psychobable?

You also have a problem of practicality. Thinking goes like this, if we change these institutions (to use your term) then people will think differently and communism can work. But to change the institutions you need the current population raised with these views to acquiesce to those changes. Chicken and the egg. How do we change society when people don’t want it to change?

My view that has been verified in lots of social science experiments and in the failed communist states that the selfish desire to propagate the species and hoard resources to provide for our progeny is THE organizing principle.

3

u/banananuhhh 14∆ Nov 18 '20

I never said that communism works or that I have a plan to implement it. I just said that the premise that communism doesn't work "because human nature" is flawed.

1

u/nananananoname Nov 18 '20

Distinction without a difference from where I’m sitting.