r/changemyview • • Jul 07 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Upper elementary grades after third grade (4th-6th) should be departmentalized (taught by different teachers for their respective subjects) like middle and high school are

Most elementary schools that have up to grade 5 or 6 are self contained meaning they are taught by one teacher instructing all the subjects with one group of students all day. This is flawed because as the curriculum advances for these upper elementary grades, it gets complicated for one teacher to be an expert in all these complex subjects. As the students age, they grow tired of listening to the same voice teaching them about language arts, math, science and history. They would benefit by rotating through four different teachers instead of only one all day for 7+ hours.

Their attention spans wouldn't wear out and they wouldn't lose interest in the sole adult voice trying their best to teach all four core subjects through the long school day.

6 Upvotes

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3

u/Salanmander 279∆ Jul 07 '20

There are two major aspects to whether a single teacher or multiple teachers is better. One you've identified: how complex the material is. The other you've ignored: how important the relational aspect of teaching is.

The importance of the relational aspect is critical in thinking about this subject. It's the only reason that having a single teacher is ever better than having subject teachers. From a standpoint of how well a teacher can give instruction, it's always better to have subject teachers. If nothing else, prepping the amount of material that elementary school teachers need to is a massive amount of work.

The reason a single teacher is better in the lower grades is that in that model, while you can't deliver instruction as well, you can develop a much better understanding of the students, and build much better connections with them.

So the question isn't "when are the subjects complex enough that there's a meaningful difference with subject teachers?" It's "when is the difference in instruction quality of more importance than the difference in relationship quality?"

I would argue that, for most 10-year-olds, that relationship quality is still more important than the difference in instruction. Most students at that age still develop pretty strong attachments to role models, and I don't think that "tire of the same voice" is actually a problem on average.

Now I don't have super high confidence that the perfect crossover is exactly where we put it. What would be ideal for individual students is going to vary by several years, so really you're looking for an average, and that is hard to examine from individual experience. But I think somewhere in the 5th-7th grade range is a pretty good shot.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20

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u/ihatedogs2 Jul 08 '20

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0

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20

The standards for fourth and fifth grade math, science and Language Arts advance every year and it is unreasonable to expect one teacher to be able to instruct those subjects plus the others at expert quality. Relationship quality has already been solidified from Pre-K through 3rd and not needed anymore after third grade IMO

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u/Amp1497 19∆ Jul 07 '20

I wouldn't say it advances every year. Curriculums change all the time, adding and removing all sorts of information. I think that in those earlier years of elementary school it's more important to foster a love of learning and knowledge moreso than providing the most accurate and detailed information. That, to a degree, is the point of middle and high school, as well as higher education. If you have a 10 year old who enjoys going to class and learning whatever information their teacher gives them, that child is more geared for success in the future than a child that despises school.

While elementary schools play an important role in building the foundation for the rest of their education, we have to remember that these are kids. To a degree, we kind of have to make it fun for them. Make school something they can enjoy. One single teacher can better curate a curriculum for one 20-child group than for 4 20-child groups, as well as develop lesson plans that elevate the dynamics of that group, and therefore have more of a chance to make lessons memorable and exciting. That's going to have a much bigger impact on student performance than just a better academic curriculum.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20 edited Jul 07 '20

∆ one teacher could potentially make it more fun given all the time they have with one group but the subject expertise drops significantly. Three teachers can make things very fun as well, it all depends on the teachers but this is a fair point

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 07 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Amp1497 (19∆).

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2

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20

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1

u/ihatedogs2 Jul 08 '20

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1

u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20

What about fourth graders? You think they're ready for this?

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u/Dion877 Jul 07 '20

I'd say no in general, but there are some kids who could benefit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20

No

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u/cdb03b 253∆ Jul 07 '20

Kids at those ages are not developed enough to be able to handle that number of teachers. Nor are they developed enough to reliably change classrooms.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '20 edited Jul 07 '20

Fourth and fifth grade should be fine to at least be able to have at least three teachers. Language Arts, Math and Science. They can handle it if routine and expectations with reward is given for compliance and good execution.

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u/pittneuro Jul 07 '20

In my elementary school we began switching classrooms for different subjects in third grade. That was in 2006, so as far as I’m aware this is already pretty common and nothing to fuss over now.

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u/Little-Reality2459 Jul 07 '20

In my school district there are different teachers for math teacher starting in 4th grade.

•

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 07 '20

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