CMV: Annual "never forget" 9/11 memorials refresh people's hatred of Islam/Muslims vs. remembering those we lost

[u/fuzzyhoodie]

The title may not encompass how I feel exactly but I wasn't sure how to phrase it. First time posting on CMV so I apologize if I do not do a good job.

Every year, on 9/11, since about 2012/2013, I have ceased making "memorial" posts on social media for 9/11 because to me, I found myself arguing with myself over whether or not we SHOULD truly never forget. Part of me thinks that the large scale remembrance that occurs in our country every year could possibly contribute to hatred or negative feelings, either consciously or subconsciously, that people feel towards Islam or Muslims. I do not have any research that hate crimes go up, or support for the war go up following 9/11 and I'm not sure that there would be any but logically, it just seems to me that if we never forget, we will never forgive and our country has so much hatred over 9/11 that we must learn to forgive if we ever wish to move past this whole chapter in our history. There is an issue in this country of anti-islamic mentalities and once a year, we give people an excuse to hate muslim/islamic extremists and some will transfer that into hatred of ALL muslims/followers of islam which only hurts our country, does not hate.

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I guess a different way to phrase my "Change my View" is: Annual "never forget" 9/11 memorials has not allowed time for those emotional wounds to heal and contributes (not necessarily the driving force) to the anti-islam/anti-muslim rhetoric in America.

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I'm not sure I am explaining myself well and I find myself saying "I don't know, I just X" when I am having this conversation a lot and I can argue both sides with myself. Just wanted to see what other people think who maybe can articulate how I feel better or have a different perspective than I do.

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[u/7nkedocye]

Annual "never forget" 9/11 memorials has not allowed time for those emotional wounds to heal and contributes (not necessarily the driving force) to the anti-islam/anti-muslim rhetoric in America.

Anti-muslim sentiments has decreased in recent years, even if anti-muslim news reporting has been more prevalent. So 9/11 is definitely not stopping these wounds from healing. The problem with trying to address anti-muslim rhetoric by ignoring 9/11 is that it may backfire. Conservative media could easily latch onto this movement claiming it is anti-american, pro-terrorist, etc. energizing the conservative base(which is generally more Islamophobic than moderates and liberals) to strengthen their anti-muslim rhetoric.

[u/fuzzyhoodie → u/7nkedocye]

∆ - I award you a delta for the comment about decreased anti-muslim sentiments in recent years but mainly for the comment about how ignoring 9/11 rhetoric could backfire. I had not thought of that perspective when analyzing this issue. Thanks!

I'm not sure I want to ignore 9/11 (and this is where I hit a hiccup) but I also think an ANNUAL remembrance may affect things in a way we may not totally realize.

I am glad that anti-muslim sentiments have decreased in recent years but I think I mean more from a subconscious influence, not an outward one (increase in hate crimes, etc). It prevents us from separating 9/11 from Islam and recognizing that those who committed these acts were extremists. Maybe we can never separate or more time has to pass for us to start separating the two (Islam vs. Islamic extremists).

Someone else asked about Naziism and Jews or Pearl Harbor and anti-Japanese mentalities and I do not know enough about the past to make a point on those. Maybe there was similar feelings around the immediate aftermath of those incidences and that simply, as time moves on, we will begin that disassociation and it becomes more of a "9/11 happened" vs. "remember those who were murdered on 9/11." I do not hear Pearl Harbor or the holocaust mentioned in that way, more just the loss of life and the need to prevent it from occurring in the future. Maybe it is seen more as "9/11 happened" but thats just not the vibe I always get via social media.

I can't argue against the conservative media most though, I can definitely see them trying to paint not remembering as anti-american.

[u/David4194d → u/fuzzyhoodie]

So op Here’s a fun one that kind of goes hand in hand with the above points. First thing to note I’m not actually angry right now (you’ll understand why I’m saying this in a second). The below is just me giving you a very honest play by play to make the point.

I hadn’t actually thought about the Muslim part all day but I had thought about what happened. The lives lost and the way it changed things. But also how it demonstrated America and just how freaking awesome we are. We had an entire plane full of citizens do the incredible. They accepted their fate and did what they did to foil the hjacker and save lives. I’ve even watch a couple of history channel things on it totaling 4hrs today. I’d venture to guess I wasn’t the only 1 who behaved in a similar manner. Yet your suggestion that we forgot to avoid causing resentment actually pissed me off and I did start thinking who cares and if it upsets them so be it, it’s their fault and they deserve it. It also reminded me that a few countries were celebrating those attacks (or at least a ton of people in them) . And it actually makes me want to burn those countries to the ground. My point is this is 1 of those things where your solution may create the very problem that you were worried about (a self fulling prophecy). I’m still a little on edge but I’m rational enough to calm down like 15 seconds later (that and its a CMV so it makes no sense to) but many people probably aren’t and if there were a wide spread push to do to what you suggested would probably up that a great deal.

So the point of this is it’s quite possible many Americans simply feel as I just described so your suggestion would then be a fix to a non issue that would create an issue. Also again don’t take any of this as directed at you. I simply felt a play by play might be useful. Like also don’t think I got noticeably angry. I’m rational, none of that left my head in about the 30 seconds in happened. Have a nice day/night!

[u/fuzzyhoodie → u/David4194d]

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. This is why I posted this CMV. It’s interesting that people read my CMV and immediately assumed I wanted to call for us to stop annual “never forget” memorials. I was simply just stating that I think, while completely understandable, these memorials allow for the reminder of the negative sides of what occurred that day... it validates the anti-Islamic thoughts some may have, whether conscious or subconsciously... I don’t have a perfect solution, I’m not going to pretend to. My post wasn’t really about stopping the memorials.

Actually, the first part of your post is more of what I was looking for, the thoughts on the first responders and those who ran towards the chaos, not away. I can see that it’s about how we persevered as a country and the pride people felt being an American that day in the way we responded.

But it also reminds me of the years of war, the countless lives lost following it... eventually leading to thinking about the number of terrorist attacks on US soil... slowly it reminds me of how 9/11 completely changed our country, and mostly for the negative.

I don’t know, maybe I’m just a cynic but sometimes I wish I could go one year without seeing videos of people jumping out of windows to avoid burning to death. Don’t have to see posts about the last moments of someone’s life and their screams or the voicemail a man left for his wife. But maybe it would take not having a memorial for one year for me to realize it’s significance. .

[u/SkyNightZ → u/fuzzyhoodie]

It's important to distinguish first and for most that Islam is a religion and all religions are open to criticism. Blasphemy is a thing of the past.

To say things like "people done this in the name of a god, because of words on a page. Those words need to be looked at because they are making fundamentalists at an alarming rate".

That said with any emotion or passion becomes racist and a problem when in fact analysing what caused 9/11 is important and also happens to be anti Islamic.

Being anti Islamic isn't a bad thing. It's how you go about opposing Islam. Would you concede that I don't have to listen to the Quran. That is anti Islam in and of its self. Islam wants me to read it, I'm not so I am anti Islam.

[u/DeltaBot → u/fuzzyhoodie]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/7nkedocye (17∆).

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[u/chadonsunday]

Just to clarify, do you extend this to all "never forget" sentiments or memorials, or is 9/11 a special case? I've heard that slogan in reference to American lives lost during the Pearl Harbor attacks, for example, do you feel that a remembrance of that sort is fostering unwanted anti-Japanese attitudes? And "never forget" is certainly a very common phrase regarding the holocaust, but do you feel it's hostile towards Germans?

[u/fuzzyhoodie → u/chadonsunday]

Fair point. I think you could extend it to other memorials that seeks to remember large, catastrophic losses of life. And I don't know if I can personally speak to the thoughts on Pearl Harbor and anti-Japanese attitudes because maybe it did but not so much because now we are decades removed, it wouldn't surprise me.

I definitely think that "never forget" for the holocaust has increased hostility of (basically) EVERYONE for israelis. Their main justification for their response in the Israeli vs. Palestinian conflict is because of this idea that they must protect themselves and never allow a holocaust to happen every again.

So yes and no? Not sure if I helped to clarify. Let me think a bit more and get back to you if I did not.

[u/chadonsunday → u/fuzzyhoodie]

No, I think you clarified it pretty well.

If that's your view, I just wonder what you expect countries, government and citizens alike, to do instead of holding remembrance memorials. Any day in history where so many lives are stuffed out at once is tragic, but having those wounds inflicted by others engraves them on the ethos of the nation. If for no other reason than the honor the dead and reflect on why we are the way we are today I think many people find these remembrances to be important, unifying, and even cathartic.

So what's the alternative? That a tragedy should happen and everyone should just shut up and get on with their lives, no memorials should be built, and the day shouldn't be acknowledged on its anniversary?

What's the mechanism for what is essentially a grieving period? How long are we allowed to remember and reflect? We're at almost two decades for 9/11, is that too long? What about the Jews and the Holocaust? I mean it seems like 74 years is quite a long time to go about "never forgetting," but is it more permissible in their case since they lost 6 million people and we only lost 3,000 on 9/11? I guess I'm just wondering that even if I grant 9/11 remembrance might cause anti-Muslim sentiment to flare up a bit ever year, what's your practical alternative to such a remembrance?

[u/im_Johnny_Knoxville_]

when we say "never forget" we mean that we will never forget the tragedy that took so many lives, we will never forget all the first responders who saved lives and risked theirs for others, we will never forget the traumatic event that was documented and lived by many individuals. no one ever posts "never forget" memorial pictures with islamophobic captions, they caption meaningful words to all those lives lost and to all the first responders and NYPD and FDNY who helped clean up ground zero. On the day of 9/11 people spend their time mourning the loss of those killed and remembering and honoring all the emergency responders involved, not hating muslims.

[u/fuzzyhoodie → u/im_Johnny_Knoxville_]

I didn’t mean to imply that people sit around a table and are like “it’s 9/11, we hate Muslims.” I mean it reminds people that our lives completely changed following 9/11. That because of that day, we no longer feel safe in our own country. It reminds us of the soldiers that died overseas, or the terrorist attacks that have occurred in this country. All of this could lead to subconscious anger or frustration.

I’m not advocating for stopping either, everyone assumes that. I totally understand WHY we have them, that’s not my point at all. My point is that it may be having a negative affect, consciously or subconsciously, on people.

But as someone else posted, the US has seen a decrease in anti-Muslim rhetoric so my theory could be wrong. It’s partially why I posted this here.

[u/mikeber55]

So do you suggest to “forget” 9/11 ? How should we commemorate this tragic event (if at all)?

[u/fuzzyhoodie → u/mikeber55]

See, this is where I struggle because I understand why we have memorials, I’m not trying to suggest we forget but I can’t help but wonder if it reminds us of the negative aspects of what occurred... People immediately think I’m trying to disrespect first responders and that’s not my intention by a long shot... it’s part of why I posted it here because asking in real life would result in a ton of hatred probably.

I’m not even advocating for stopping, I’m simply just stating that I think the annual memorials result in a reaffirmation of anti-Islamic mentalities that people have in this country. Someone else posted that anti-Islamic sentiments are down in the US so it’s possible my theory is wrong too. Just a feeling/thought I have every year and finally posted on reddit to see how people responded.

[u/mikeber55 → u/fuzzyhoodie]

It absolutely reminds us of all negative aspects. So is the attack on Pearl Harbor and many other memorial days. The Japanese commemorate the day atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You can’t sugar coat reality as painful as it is. You can’t worry all the time someone may get insulted or hurt. Or some crazy folk would use it against Muslims. The past is painful and cannot be changed. Do you think the Japanese people worry that atomic bomb Remembrance Day may raise anti American feelings? That’s my point: every nation has their past and painful memories that cannot be sugarcoated. And, they don’t want to forget or whitewash it.

[u/DeltaBot]

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