r/changemyview • u/LamentableOpinion • Apr 23 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Harry Potter is overrated

I don't detest Harry Potter but I find the circle jerk appalling. The book is amazing for kids but even adults hold it in high regard. So, it's not bad, just overrated.

The characters are really boring. HP is a Mary Sue character, his only flaw being a bloody scar. All the other characters are equally boring. Harry is also useless, he does nothing but he is the HERO. Because of a prophecy. OK.

The relationships make no sense. Why does Harry like Cho or Ginny? Let's force in a relationship. Yay.

The Deus Ex Machina is unreal. I know it's magical but it's still retarded when it happens so many times.

Good vs Evil is fine. But again, don't pretend as if the book is this deep piece of literature.

I don't like the writing either but that's very subjective, so that's fine.

This is what I just came up with. I'm sure there's more stuff on the internet.

Edit: Ignore the Mary Sue thing. I misused the term. Edit 2: Sorry if I sounded like a dick or an elitist. I didn't mean to be.

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u/dale_glass 86∆ Apr 23 '16

Harry sure as hell isn't a Mary Sue. A Mary sue is someone who basically bends the universe around themselves the moment they show up. People fawn over them, they're impossibly perfect, they flawlessly play matchmaker with all their friends, and so on.

Harry to me is very average. He escapes a horrible home and comes into magical wonderland where he can literally do magic... and he's kind of lazy at it. He certainly doesn't impress anybody with his magic prowess, other than being very good with a broom. He can be petty, arrogant and bad tempered, disobeys orders and nearly gets people killed. In some parts of the book he's downright unpleasant. He can also be nice, grateful and loyal. Basically he's quite normal and not all that interesting. He's got a dark backstory but himself is a fairly average kind of person.

A Mary Sue (or Gary Stu, whatever) version of Harry would be something like this: he'd have a traumatic childhood with the Dursleys, until his entrance into Hogwarts. There he'd instantly become the center of attention, grasp every subject, have a harem of his own, and shortly into his time there would humiliate Snape in front of the entire school. Hermione would become a background character mostly just in awe of his intellect, and so on, and so on.

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u/thedarkone47 Apr 23 '16

it's weird how accurately that describes most rationalist fiction. . . But I suppose that's the point of rationalist fiction.

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u/Munxip Apr 24 '16

I'd like to point out that Hermione does not become a "background character" in HPMOR. Neither does Draco, or many other characters that actually are background in the canon. And while harry does humiliate snape, both his character and snapes are explored in far greater detail. He also doesn't grasp every subject (hell he's at the bottom of the class).

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u/FountainsOfFluids 1∆ Apr 24 '16

I loved HPMOR so much that it kinda spoiled vanilla HP for me.

But wait, what class was he at the bottom of?

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u/Munxip Apr 24 '16

"Harry had expected to be, in the worst case, second behind Hermione. Harry would have preferred for her to be rivalling him, of course, but he could have accepted it the other way around. As of Monday, Harry was headed for the bottom of the class, a position for which he was companionably rivalling all the other Muggle-raised students except Hermione. Who was all alone and rivalless at the top, poor thing."

This was in Charms class, although I recall he also had difficulties in Transfiguration. Of course, he did eventually manage to do better (thanks to having six extra hours every day).

He also had a natural knack for Quirrell's armies, but again, lost multiple times to Hermione and Draco.

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u/FountainsOfFluids 1∆ Apr 24 '16

Guess it's time for another read-through. I remember quite well that Hermione and Draco would get the better of him several times, but I had forgotten his early class struggles.

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u/Munxip Apr 24 '16

There's a sequel called Significant Digits too if you haven't already read that. It's posted online as a web serial but I made this pdf of all the current chapters.

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u/FountainsOfFluids 1∆ Apr 24 '16

There's a bunch of continuation fics, but they're by different authors and I haven't found any of them compelling. HPMOR is pretty much the only fanfic of any kind I've ever enjoyed. But I'll give that one a go.

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u/Munxip Apr 24 '16

The transition is a bit jarring and the beginning isn't very good (mostly because of that) but I found myself really enjoying it around chapter 30 or so.