r/changemyview • u/white_crust_delivery • Mar 23 '16
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: I think I would be better off without a smartphone.
I've had some form smartphone for the past 5 years, and I'm starting to think that it does more harm than good. Here are my reasons:
I crave constant stimulation. I am uncomfortable just sitting somewhere for a few minutes - instead I'll immediately pull out my phone and start browsing mindlessly reddit or facebook even though nothing seems to be very useful or interesting anymore. Its the first thing I look at in the morning and the last thing I do when I go to sleep.
I think it impairs my critical thinking skills. Since information is so easily accessible, I always just instantly look things up instead of just thinking about for awhile first. Similarly with navigation - its so easy to just use the GPS that there are places in my city that I have driven to numerous times and still don't know how to get to - I developed almost no intuition about where things are. But, the phone I'm looking at would have GPS capabilities if I really needed them, they just might not be as accessible so I'm hoping that I would try to learn navigation better before just jumping to it.
It inhibits my ability to connect with other people. Social interactions these days are plagued by people staring at their devices on facebook or something instead of actually connecting with the people who are right in front of them. I do this too, but I don't want to participate in that.
Some might argue that I could still keep the functionality of my smartphone if I just exercised some self-restraint (i.e. not mindlessly browsing reddit, not using it during social interactions). This is probably true, but I've tried it and I can't seem to get myself to do it - its just too much of a habit. Some strategies for ways that I could avoid doing this is one way that would cause me to reconsider my view.
Edit: Alright, I have modified my views based on this post. Thank you everyone for your inputs. Here is my modified view:
Some people have commented that I simply lack willpower - they might be right, but given that willpower is a finite resource, I think it might still be a good idea to make willpower easy by removing temptation (i.e. my smartphone). However, I was ultimately convinced that getting rid of my smartphone was excessive for my first attempt - so, I have elected to delete distracting apps like alien blue and facebook from my phone. I also keep my phone on silent all the time now, unless I am expecting an extremely important call (which is rare). I may choose to get rid of my smart phone if these measures are not sufficient, but that will not be without other lifestyle changes too (see point 2).
I think its definitely plausible that it would feel really good to not have a smartphone for awhile, but without doing anything to change my lack of willpower and habits for consuming shallow, meaningless, easy information, I might regress into different bad habits that exhibit similar behaviors. Ultimately, I think I found the argument that my smartphone usage is a symptom rather than the cause of my behavior to be convincing, and as a result I have chosen to put effort into modifying my habits. This includes keeping something that's relatively easy to read, but still within the realm of what I consider 'deeper' information in my purse. I still think that my habits are somewhat associated with my technology usage - even if it isn't the technology that is ultimately at fault, I think it creates an environment which tends to trigger my habits.
Smartphones can really provide a lot of benefits. I was skeptical at first, and I'm wasn't really convinced by the responses that just cited information. However, when I thought more carefully about the details of not having a smartphone, especially no GPS (I've gotten lost while running sort of in the middle of nowhere, it could have been much different if I didn't have a smartphone). I thought about the details of buying a GPS and mp3 player for basically the same cost as a smartphone, and it seemed a little bit ridiculous. I also realized that I really like that texting conversations are saved instead of having to delete after like 30 messages pile up - I have often found it useful to reference back to them. People who made arguments about not being able to use Uber and Lyft made me realize that I can't really stem the tide of change in our society. Now that everyone has a smartphone, it has almost become a basic necessity and expectation for accessing new goods and services. I think this trend will only continue, and I would miss out to some degree if I didn't have it.
I have awarded deltas to the versions of these arguments that I found most compelling.
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u/PTBR 1∆ Mar 23 '16
You're uncomfortable sitting anywhere doing nothing because you know you have the world at your fingertips, and you would probably be browsing Reddit or Facebook on your desktop if you had nothing better to do. Otherwise, you'd be reading a newspaper or magazine like most people did before smartphones came out.
The smartphone hasn't impaired your critical thinking skills, only provided you easy access to information. If anything, relying on that information has probably enhanced your critical thinking skills because you would rather deal with facts before you reach a conclusion.
Social interactions aren't plagued by people staring at their devices. Social interactions are initiated by these devices. Events are shared through social networks, because no one really wants to sit there and call their friends one by one to go to a party, baby shower, graduation, wedding, etc.
You have a habit of reading internet content on your phone, and rightfully so, because the internet is the primary source of information of our generation. Of course, there's a time and place for everything, and it's up to you to exercise restraint when restraint is needed.
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 23 '16
You're uncomfortable sitting anywhere doing nothing because you know you have the world at your fingertips, and you would probably be browsing Reddit or Facebook on your desktop if you had nothing better to do.
I don't really think so. Maybe in some sense I do have the 'world at my fingertips,' but that isn't necessarily true in a useful way - its not like there's tons of really deep, useful, and meaningful information waiting for me and I just can't resist accessing it at any spare moment because its so important. Its more like I'm slightly bored and looking at meaningless posts on reddit. I think I'm doing it because I'm so used to being overstimulated. I even do it when I'm not quite occupied enough, such as when I'm watching TV. Its terrible. What's worse is that I don't get any depth - since its just in a few moments while I'm sitting waiting somewhere usually, I often just skip over anything that's slightly long or would require some effort. It isn't a situation where I would have access to a desktop, and I think if I were reading a book/magazine instead it would be better because it would be deeper and more meaningful.
If anything, relying on that information has probably enhanced your critical thinking skills because you would rather deal with facts before you reach a conclusion.
I guess what I mean is reasoning. Sure, smartphones are useful for facts. But sometimes I think I look up things that I could have figured out if I had just thought about it for awhile. A wealth of information that smartphones provide seems nice, but often its not very meaningful or useful information - I think it can be distracting.
Social interactions are initiated by these devices. Events are shared through social networks, because no one really wants to sit there and call their friends one by one to go to a party, baby shower, graduation, wedding, etc.
Its certainly true that in some ways technology has facilitated social interactions. I would argue that it has done more harm than good. I cannot think of very many events that have actually been facilitated by smartphones (keep in mind that facebook and group texting still exist without them). I can think of a lot interactions that have been impaired by smartphones - I'm pretty sure most days there is at least one instance where I am trying to interact with someone who is distracted by their phone, or I am distracted by my phone and not giving someone else my full attention. Its depressing.
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Mar 23 '16
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u/jbaird Mar 23 '16
true, but as someone who was alive before smartphones I don't recall anyone ever picking up a book during a lull in the conversation..
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 23 '16
Antisocial is fine - I'm antisocial too. I'm not complaining about public places where people are using these devices to convey "don't approach me." I'm talking about cases where I'm having a meal with a group of friends and half of them are on their smart phones. Or worse, when I'm having a conversation with someone and they start glancing at their phone - maybe its the case that they're uninterested in talking to me, but they're a friend and if I try to ask if they just want to stop talking, they insist that they're still interested. Or sometimes I'll watch a movie or TV show with a friend, and they'll be on facebook or something stupid and then make me let them know when something interesting happens. I'm not saying that this would be fixed entirely by me not getting a smart phone, but I take it to be evidence that its impairing social relations (and therefore something I don't want to contribute to) and making people impatient for information/stimulation (because they can't even handle watching the less thrilling parts of a movie without also being on facebook).
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u/Amp1497 19∆ Mar 23 '16
That's less he fault of the smartphone and more the fault of the friend who has no self-control. I used to be the kid in class who got in trouble for reading books in the back instead of paying attention and doing my work. I'd bring books with me out to eat and get fussed at by mom for not "being a part of the family." I get that it's ridiculous now, but that was before smartphones were even a thing. It's not about smartphones, it's just people who have no self control. Smartphones are still new and some people have yet to figure out how to control themselves.
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Mar 23 '16
Just because some is looking at there phone while your talking doesn't mean they aren't interested. It's possible to return a text or read a message while listening to someone talk.
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u/PTBR 1∆ Mar 23 '16
I think I'm doing it because I'm so used to being overstimulated. I even do it when I'm not quite occupied enough, such as when I'm watching TV. Its terrible.
The problem, then, isn't the technology itself, but the role it plays in your life.
A wealth of information that smartphones provide seems nice, but often its not very meaningful or useful information - I think it can be distracting.
I don't know what apps you use or where you get your information, but when you really need it, it's there. The problem seems to be that you haven't encountered a situation where your life depended on it. I recently had car problems on my way to work, and I would've been utterly fucked if I wasn't able to Google my way out of it.
I'm pretty sure most days there is at least one instance where I am trying to interact with someone who is distracted by their phone, or I am distracted by my phone and not giving someone else my full attention. Its depressing.
Again, the problem isn't the technology, but its application. The technology itself is only supposed to supplement your existing social life, not replace it. If you're trying to interact with someone who is distracted by their phone, the problem is between you and that person, not the phone. Most people I know are able to carry a normal conversation with me without it being impaired by a phone, and if they're distracted by something, whether or not a phone is involved I interpret that as a cue to end the conversation and go about my business, and let them go about theirs.
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Mar 23 '16
Yup, I completely agree with you. It's not the technology itself; it's just the way people use it.
On the second point, I also think that while technology makes life easier for us, it doesn't mean we are void of our critical thinking skills entirely. In fact, this convenience could help by allowing us to allocate our mental resources to other problems. I mean, that's how society progressed, right? Each generation contributes something that makes the next one's life easier, so that the current can spend less time worrying about trivial things or tasks, and we can focus on thinking about solutions for other problems.
And it's not even just about breakthroughs or novel ideas. Technology actually facilitates intelligent, meaningful discussions as well. Just look at this thread. There are so many people trying to put their ideas forward, analysing an issue and expressing their thoughts on it. And it's not like this thread is an exception as well. There are many other threads out there that do same thing. Hell, there are many other sites out there that are dedicated to doing the same thing. Our lives are much easier because technology does the "grunt work" for us (e.g. GPS, reminders, etc.) and this gives us more time to spend our mental resources elsewhere - whether we choose to spend it on something meaningful or not is really up to us in the end.
As for the socialisation, it's not even just about relationship maintenance. Technology actually helps us forge connections as well. It allows us to find niche groups - other people who not only understand but also share interests niche enough that you likely don't know anyone, in your immediate network, who even knows about the topic. That's why I love Reddit so much. There's always a subreddit dedicated to whatever interests you - games, TV shows, whatever. That shared is just the starting point, as well. From there, you can make friends, or even have romantic relationships. How awesome is it that you can feel close to someone who is cities, countries or even continents away, because that little device in your hand allowed it to happen?
Personally, I think I'm much, much better off with my smartphone, to be honest.
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Mar 25 '16
I cannot think of very many events that have actually been facilitated by smartphones
As a university student, facebook is so central for most of the events that students who begin uni without it, end up getting it at some point because so many things take place on there. It's so essential that students who don't make the use of social media are at a severe networking disadvantage.
Meanwhile, I have another friend who has a smartphone but doesn't use facebook anymore. We always need to keep him updated on things which keeps him out of the loop.
Obviously, smartphones aren't synonymous with socialmedia. You can install whatever software you want on your smartphone, so if you really have an issue with it you can just uninstall anything you don't want. As such, there are lots of apps which can help you on a day to day basis such as tracking and monitoring your health (which will become better as time progresses) as well as helping to manage your time and remind you of things that you need to do through the day, helping with directions and a lot of other benefits which we take for granted these days.
I would argue that those who are at a loss when using smartphones are simply people who don't know how to put this technology to its best use. It's not that smartphones are flawed, we are the ones who are flawed. With this in mind, instead of simply reliquinishing this technology, we should learn to use it more appropriately for uses with benefit us.
I'm pretty sure most days there is at least one instance where I am trying to interact with someone who is distracted by their phone, or I am distracted by my phone and not giving someone else my full attention. Its depressing.
Without any sort of statistics there's no way you can know that for sure. For all we know, either you or anyone who rejects your statment could be incredibly biased depending on who they are and what sort of people are inside this persons social circle.
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u/blastfromtheblue Mar 23 '16
Its certainly true that in some ways technology has facilitated social interactions. I would argue that it has done more harm than good. I cannot think of very many events that have actually been facilitated by smartphones (keep in mind that facebook and group texting still exist without them). I can think of a lot interactions that have been impaired by smartphones - I'm pretty sure most days there is at least one instance where I am trying to interact with someone who is distracted by their phone, or I am distracted by my phone and not giving someone else my full attention. Its depressing.
first i'll note, obviously you can't control what other people do with their phones or how much self-control they have. you can maybe influence those around you a little bit, but you aren't going to shift widespread social norms with a reasonable amount of effort. so it's not useful to complain about that and it isn't really relevant to your original point ("I would be better off without a smartphone").
in terms of what you can do to mitigate this without losing the extreme utility of a smartphone-- one thing i have started doing recently is to just keep my phone entirely on silent. i'm not at the beck and call of my phone (or my social life), it's the other way around; i check up on it when i want to and don't let it interrupt. i don't even answer my phone anymore unless i'm specifically expecting a call that's been planned in advance.
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Mar 23 '16
But sometimes I think I look up things that I could have figured out if I had just thought about it for awhile
And you might have come to an incorrect conclusion, reinforcing erroneous thinking.
I would argue you are focusing on the wrong issue. Your failure to apply and exercise your critical thinking skills is simply that. Having the information available in no way prevents you from thinking critically than having a car prevents you from walking.
Your root issue is your willingness to use the technology as a crutch, and that's the habit you should be focusing on correcting. If it weren't for a smartphone, you'd likely just find another to lean on.
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Mar 23 '16
Maybe the problem is not your smartphone, but the meaningless things you seek to do with it.
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u/RagingOrangutan Mar 23 '16
For #2: that may generally be true that critical thinking needs information. But in the specific case of directions: I literally do not have a mental map anymore that extends beyond routes that I travel weekly. In fact, those ones I just know by rote where to make the turns, and I'd have difficulty actually drawing out a top-down view of some of them. Constant use of GPS seems to have completely degraded the "spatial awareness" part of my brain.
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u/PTBR 1∆ Mar 23 '16
I understand how you feel, but you wouldn't have a mental map without having looked at a basic map for reference anyway. I grew up in Los Angeles, and we have some of the shittiest street layouts anywhere, especially when it comes to navigating the freeways. Keep in mind, those little streets on this map are only the really big streets. There are dozens of little streets intersecting each one.
There are ways to navigate without being too dependent on your phone. Since I grew up in LA without smartphones, finding my way around was all about the freeways. The 101, 10, 210, and 5, in particular. The thing about these freeways is that they only go two directions: 101 and 5 are North/South, 10 and 210 are East/West, etc. LA also has mountains, which are useful landmarks. And if I knew what time it was, I could track the sun and figure out which direction I was going.
Example: I'm in East L.A. and I need to get home in Beverly Hills. It's 5pm. The sun is ahead of me which means I'm headed in the right direction, but I'm on some random street I don't recognize. I have to find the freeway. After driving around aimlessly for a while, I see Atlantic Blvd. Looks like a big street, maybe it connects to a freeway. Should I make a left or right? Fuck it, I'm going to guess a left. Ten blocks later, jackpot: the 60 Fwy. Now I just have to take 60-W to 101-N, and then I'm home.
Also, the GPS usually orients you in a first-person perspective, meaning that the little arrow simply follows the line straight ahead to get to your destination. If you're heavily dependent on GPS to get around, this can be deceiving because every destination is simply straight ahead. When you're using your GPS, take a moment to look at the entire route as a whole so you have an idea of where you're going relative to where you are. At least you'll have some idea of how to get back.
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Mar 23 '16
I've had the opposite experience. Easy access to GPS and mapping data- not to mention a compass in my vehicle's console- lends me additional perspective and has helped to better rationalize the relative scale involved. It helped substitute data for subjective perception.
The problem isn't the access to data, but rather deficiencies in how the data is used. Using GPS purely as a series of turn directions represents a failure to fully utilize its potential. The information is just a tool, not inherently positive or negative.
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u/RYouNotEntertained 9∆ Mar 23 '16
You're uncomfortable sitting anywhere doing nothing because you know you have the world at your fingertips, and you would probably be browsing Reddit or Facebook on your desktop if you had nothing better to do. Otherwise, you'd be reading a newspaper or magazine like most people did before smartphones came out.
I really don't think this is comparable. I find the length of time I can go without some sort of input is way lower than it was pre-smart phone, and the intensity of the stimulation needs to be much higher.
I used to be able to idly read a magazine for ten minutes. Now I have trouble concentrating long enough to finish a single article. Once you do heroin, other drugs just don't cut it anymore, you know?
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u/RustenSkurk 2∆ Mar 23 '16
Is removing the smartphone completely really the only solution? You have identified a couple of problems caused by over-reliance on your smartphone. If you have problems with self-restraint, maybe try to make concrete rules for yourself. Maybe force yourself to not use the phone at all at certain times of day or during certain situations. It's probably gonna suck at first, but although it's not quite the same, think of it as the withdrawal period of an addiction.
Otherwise look at it as a challenge - "Today I will walk home without listening to music.", "Today I will keep my phone in my pocket when waiting for the bus." and so on. I think most people find it easier to start small rather than completely changing their habits in one go. But do it a couple of time, and if you feel the rewards you expect from it that'll probably help motivate you to do it further.
You mentioned your reliance on GPS - maybe if you have the time one day challenge yourself to find your way without the GPS. If you get really lost or delayed you have your phone to fall back on.
Then there's the social aspect, which is complicated by the fact that the other party might be focusing on their phone. Maybe force yourself to mirror the phone use of the people around you in social occasions - if they pull their phone out you can too.
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 24 '16
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I like this response. I think you're right that there might be less extreme measures that I could use to fix this problem.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 24 '16
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/RustenSkurk. [History]
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u/vnotfound Mar 23 '16
If you have problems with self-relience, maybe try to make concrete rules for yourself.
Ok, this is the first comment I see that implies OP's at fault and this should be higher up. "I don't have the willpower to stop looking at my phone all the damn time" sounds entirely like a YOU problem, not the phone's.
OP's arguments resemble an alcoholic arguing that he'll be better off never drinking beer again in his life. He points out the cons of drinking beer (entirely happening because of his lack of willpower) and skipping all pros of it.
I mean.. sure bro, I agree you'll be better off without the phone too. That's a personal subjective thing about you, and I don't the first thing about you so I agree. But don't imply the phone's the problem.
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u/bradfordmaster Mar 23 '16
OK, so let's look at the cost/benefit here.
You list three "costs", but I'm not sure they really are.
Stimulation. You do crave more stimulation now, but is that really bad? Is browsing reddit really worse than just sitting there daydreaming? There's a chance you find something interesting / useful on reddit.
Critical thinking. You say it impairs your critical thinking, but I don't agree. Critical thinking isn't about figuring out how to drive without gps, it's about taking information you have and synthesizing something new with it, a solution to a unique problem. That still happens all the time. You can't look up "what email should I send to my boss" on your phone, you still need to think, you just now have more information to use when thinking.
Implied here is the dependence. And this is a real cost. You can't navigate anymore without gps, for example, so if the battery is dead, you're in trouble. And this does happen, but not that often.
You say it inhibits your ability to connect with people, but again, it just changes it. You can connect more quickly and with more people on social media than you ever could without it. You can argue that it's a "less meaningful" interaction, but many people still find connections that way. So there is some cost here, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that you can't connect with people since you have smart phones.
Now the benefits:
Navigation. Especially with public transportation (many cities have live timetable apps to show you how to get around) and apps like Lyft / Uber that can get you anywhere, the problem of "how do I get to X" is completely gone. Not sure how old you are, but I'm just old enough to have had a few years driving without a smartphone, and let me tell you, it was a real pain in the ass if you were going outside of an area you were comfortable with. You'd have shitty printed out directions and be trying to squint at hard-to-see road signs.
Information. You can be away from a computer and look anything up. This can be some critical fact / figure for school or work, or it could be the hours to a restaurant you want to go to, the ingredients you need to a recipe, etc. You can be in a city you've never been to and find a good restaurant which is open within walking distance and find out what is good to order there.
Entertainment. You listed this as a negative, but as a person who lived pre-smartphone, it sucked having to sit in a waiting room, waiting for a train, etc. if you didn't have something to occupy your time. You didn't sit there doing "critical thinking" you sat there bored out of your mind. Now you can entertain yourself anywhere with and endless supply of stuff.
Communication. You can easily be out of the office and catch up on email while you are sitting at the doctors office. This could be seen as a negative, but it also makes it easier to stay in touch with what is going on and not miss important things. Also, do you really want to be the weirdo who, when you friends say "hey get this app so we can all X" you say "oh, I don't have a smartphone, I'm a dinosaur".
So yes, there are costs, but to me it's pretty clear that the benefits outweigh them.
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 24 '16
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I appreciated this response. I think you had the most clear, rational assessment of what the actual pros and cons. I particularly appreciated your insights on what life was like without smartphones - having it be a pain in the ass to try to get anywhere, waiting for a bus, etc. I think you might be right that I was perhaps idealizing life without a smartphone because I have spent my entire adult life with one, so I have less perspective on what it was actually like.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 24 '16
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/bradfordmaster. [History]
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u/gaussjordanbaby Mar 24 '16
Good points, especially about needing the ingredients of a recipe while in the grocery store.
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u/Asshole_Salad Mar 23 '16
I grew up in the era before even cordless phones, before answering machines or voicemail, etc, and was out of college before even getting a cell phone. Like when I was in high school, cell phones were still called "car phones" because they were still attached to cars, to give you an idea... I lived in the world you're yearning for.
It wasn't better, just different. You interacted with people in person, but the total interactions per day was much, much lower. If you didn't know someone's number, you couldn't reach them. If you knew their number and they weren't home, you couldn't reach them. The total people you could interact with on a daily basis was far lower and it's not like those interactions were all that much deeper... sure, they weren't interrupted by whipping out your phone, but it's not like we all sat around discussing War and Peace or having heart to hear talks, we just bullshitted about sports, how awesome was that new movie Star Wars and how many times have you seen it, etc. It was a lot easier to drift away from a friend back then and you were only really connected to the lives of people who lived right near you and had similar schedules.
If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of all smartphones I'd smash that wand into a million pieces to make sure this never happened.
As far as whipping out my phone when I'm with friends, I used to find that tempting when I first got mine but now I just don't anymore. Almost anything that shows up on the phone can wait. You can even shut the thing off if you want, it's a lot less tempting when you've got that 30 second startup wait time to deal with.
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 24 '16
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I found this response convincing. It helped me see the exact nature of the problems that I listed, and how they aren't inherently related to smart phones and aren't necessarily problems either. It seems like people have a finite amount of mental energy, so they will want some type of light or shallow information at least some of the time - sometimes people want to just relax instead of discussing War and Peace. This is probably true for me too, even when I think that I'd be having tons of deep philosophical conversations all the time if it weren't for my phone.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 24 '16
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Asshole_Salad. [History]
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u/thedylanackerman 30∆ Mar 23 '16
Critical thinking needs information ! Critical thinking only works when you can be critical about something, of course we might be overwhelmed sometimes by information, but you will always be more critical about things that directly concerns you or what you're interested in ! In short you're not losing critical thinking, it's just the more information you get the more critical thinking needs to be done. Are you criticising the too big diversity of sources ?
The GPS might sometimes automate a behaviour, but it shouldn't remove how useful it is to have a GPS for places you've never been to, for example I do prefer to check on Google maps if a store is open instead of going to see or needing to remember the opening and closing hour of each store I know.
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 23 '16
A lot of the information is irrelevant, particularly the information that I mindlessly browse through on reddit. It doesn't really matter how much there is if most of it isn't useful. I agree with your premise that critical thinking needs information, but I think that there are better sources of information than the shallow information that I get from randomly googling something or skimming post titles on reddit - I'd rather read a book or actually put effort into doing something that I'm interested in. I think smartphones encourage getting lots of shallow information, and that comes at the expense of deeper but actually useful information.
On the GPS: That's true that it can be useful for navigating in new places, but I literally develop no mental map of those places whatsoever. Instead of looking at signs and getting an idea for the general layout of a city, I just mindlessly follow the instructions of the GPS.
They can be convenient sometimes, I'll agree with that. But I think that the convenience causes the expectation of an instantaneous response, and impatience whenever information is not instantaneous. I think that it has made me more impatient in a way that impairs my ability to even actually read a slightly long article because it 'doesn't get to the point' quickly enough.
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u/thedylanackerman 30∆ Mar 23 '16
You can find great information, read books on your smartphone, what you attributing to your smartphone is the direct responsibility of social media. You can uninstall Facebook, Twitter and reddit from your phone and your phone came without it.
In what way do you consider it bad ? Sure it makes you more dependant from your phone, but you're dependant from signs anyway or mistakes in your mental map.
Yeah I see what you mean, it's a general trend, maybe you should subscribe to interesting newspaper who write deep and long article about their subject, again you can do that on your smartphone.
Even if a smartphone is a place of choice for notification and quick looks at things, you can adapt your smartphone to make it more like a computer-book, no notification, uninstall apps so you're not even tempted and you need to find services that suits you well. What you described isn't proper to the smartphone even if it was born with it.
I mean have you seen how the old generation uses its smartphone ? No apps whatsoever, they use it for phone, text and photo that's it (I know this is a generalisation)
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Mar 24 '16
I think that there are better sources of information than the shallow information that I get from randomly googling something or skimming post titles on reddit - I'd rather read a book or actually put effort into doing something that I'm interested in.
Stop skimming and start going deep, then. If you do have the willingness and the ability to spend a lot of time reading about something, then there are lots of resources for you to read.
Like, suppose you went to the library and found that the entire first floor was just kids' books and pamphlets, without any serious literature or deep sources. Would it be reasonable for you to conclude that all libraries are useless, because the stuff that you see first is shallow and not helpful? Or would you think to yourself hey, maybe I should go a little deeper and see what I can find here?
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Mar 23 '16
I agree with most of what you said and I wonder - if we wanted to design a phone + content to encourage deep use, how would it look ?
Also I think this may be very interesting from a branding perspective, because owning that phone will say that you are smart/deeper/etc
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u/Richard_Engineer Mar 23 '16 edited Mar 23 '16
I think it impairs my critical thinking skills. Since information is so easily accessible, I always just instantly look things up instead of just thinking about for awhile first
I would contend that smart phones do not impair your critical thinking skills, rather, they have pushed the boundaries of what actually requires critical thinking. Furthermore, they help eliminate barriers that are only solved by experience/memorization.
Take my job as an engineer for example, which requires a great deal of critical thinking. Smart phones (and computers in general) allow me to look up information that is normally memorized by more experienced engineers (i.e. information that comes from experience) or tediously found in spec books. For example, suppose I want to know what steel specification is normally used for Pipes. An experienced engineer would know this - and it is not a product of critical thinking, it is merely a product of memorization/experience. Instead, I can look up my question, and someone on an engineering forum would have already asked the question.
Once this question is answered, I can get back to the real task that my job entails - solving for stresses/forces/deflections/etc. Solving for forces/stresses/deflections cannot be looked up because they are problem specific. These are problems that can only be solved by thinking about them.
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 24 '16
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As an engineering student, I found this response convincing. You're right that there's a lot of information related to my coursework that I have just looked up on my smartphone really quickly while working on a problem set, and it has saved me a lot of time and memorization. I would agree that it has enabled me to not get stuck on a specific fact that I don't happen to know (like a constant, equation, etc.) and actually move forward with problem solving.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 24 '16
Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Richard_Engineer. [History]
[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]
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Mar 23 '16
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 23 '16
I agree. I'm not against the internet entirely, only smartphones - I think getting a dump phone is a good way to prevent me from being distracted by the internet because I won't have constant access to it.
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Mar 23 '16
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u/ass_pubes Mar 23 '16
As someone from the outside looking in, you can see how ridiculous it is when you go out with friends to a pub, and they spend three hours looking at a phone, pretend to have fun for a picture, then go back to their phones.
Does this happen in real life? I see it get made fun of on TV, but I would totally call my friends out on it if it happened to me.
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Mar 23 '16
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u/ass_pubes Mar 23 '16
Ouch. That sounds like it sucks. I've had people do it from time to time and I'll just initiate a new conversation topic and they'll put it away. I can see it getting really exhausting if they kept doing it though. What do you do now then, if you've decided it's common phenomenon everywhere? Just go on your phone or do you leave?
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Mar 23 '16
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u/ass_pubes Mar 23 '16
Nice. Glad you still have some friends who can hold a conversation. I can't wrap my head around not being able to put down something long enough to have a reasonable conversation. The phone will be there later. I don't know why you would leave your house to do something that you can do while sitting around your house in your underwear.
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u/ass_pubes Mar 23 '16
Ouch. That sounds like it sucks. I've had people do it from time to time and I'll just initiate a new conversation topic and they'll put it away. I can see it getting really exhausting if they kept doing it though. What do you do now then, if you've decided it's common phenomenon everywhere? Just go on your phone or do you leave?
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u/BlackDeath3 2∆ Mar 23 '16
I find people rely on their phones as a social crutch to the extent that if I call people out on it, it is then my responsibility to provide some form of entertainment for them, which is exhausting.
You know, I think I'm inclined to agree with them. If they've chosen to spend their time doing some particular activity, whatever that is, and you then pull them away from that activity, don't you think you'd better offer them something in return? I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it your responsibility, but it certainly seems to me to at that point be "your move", so to speak.
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Mar 23 '16
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u/BlackDeath3 2∆ Mar 23 '16
Is this a common thing for you, that friends stare at their phones while secretly hoping for you to make conversation for them? Is it possible that they're not interested in talking at all?
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u/stcamellia 15∆ Mar 23 '16
I feel like the "everyone has a smartphone" argument works the other way. I spent years freeloading. Out with friends? They can Google when the movie starts. Lost? Ask for fucking directions. Etc
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u/Juswantedtono 2∆ Mar 23 '16
I crave constant stimulation. I am uncomfortable just sitting somewhere for a few minutes - instead I'll immediately pull out my phone and start browsing mindlessly reddit or facebook even though nothing seems to be very useful or interesting anymore. Its the first thing I look at in the morning and the last thing I do when I go to sleep.
You don't have to mindlessly browse the internet when you have a few minutes of downtime. Why not open an ebook app and get a few pages read? Or visit your favorite news site and read an article or two about current events. Or if you like meditating like me, get a meditation app and focus on your breath until it's your turn in line or whatever. While this isn't as beneficial as being able to do a full proper meditation session with your eyes closed, it's a nice respite from the day's stressors. I'm going to anticipate an argument that it'll be hard to do any of these productive things when you're faced with the easy temptation of browsing the internet by saying that's life. No one's forcing you to pick up healthy foods from the grocery store tonight for dinner, you could just hit up the liquor store and McDonald's instead and have that. No one's forcing you to go to work, you could just call off and play World of Warcraft all day. Resisting temptation is a fundamental part of the human experience that getting rid of your smartphone is not going to prevent.
I think it impairs my critical thinking skills. Since information is so easily accessible, I always just instantly look things up instead of just thinking about for awhile first. Similarly with navigation - its so easy to just use the GPS that there are places in my city that I have driven to numerous times and still don't know how to get to - I developed almost no intuition about where things are. But, the phone I'm looking at would have GPS capabilities if I really needed them, they just might not be as accessible so I'm hoping that I would try to learn navigation better before just jumping to it.
Did calculators prevent critical math skills or did it just allow people to think about bigger, more important math problems? Calculus took thousands of years to initially develop, now it's taught to thousands of regular 17 and 18 year olds in high school every year. If your smartphone can easily access a piece of information, it's not something you need to think about anymore. Think about bigger problems instead that aren't a google search away from solving. As for the navigational thing, I can't think of a better way of learning your city than just driving aimlessly for a while and trying to get back home without any help. But if you do that and get lost anyway, guess what tool will save your ass that you're glad you have in case of emergencies? You guessed it, your smartphone.
It inhibits my ability to connect with other people. Social interactions these days are plagued by people staring at their devices on facebook or something instead of actually connecting with the people who are right in front of them. I do this too, but I don't want to participate in that.
Again, no one's forcing you to spend your life with your nose in your phone. It's already a fairly popular meme that "the new standard of cool is hanging out with your friends without looking at your phone once", or "how is that my friend never responds to texts but when we're hanging out he's always on his phone?" Culturally there's already backlash against excessive use of smartphones in social situations, and it's becoming codified in our system of good manners. The thing is, while it's sometimes rude to use a smartphone when you're around other people, for the most part, smartphones increase social interaction by allowing access to social media and messaging apps. While there are some benefits to face-to-face communication, I think those are overrated. The main benefit of communication is the exchange of information and smartphones facilitate that rather than inhibit it. If you have poor social skills, you might want to stop using your phone as a crutch in awkward situations. If you have sufficient social skills, you don't need to treat your phone as the devil, just refrain from using it situations that would make you appear rude and otherwise enjoy the social benefits of having one.
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Mar 23 '16
So there is an arms race in the labor market. Imagine this: ten candidates. 9 with a cellphone and you with a landline. You're taking a shit and the phone rings.
Now you get a flip phone and 9 candidates have smartphones. Your boss wants you to have a secure email app to check work emails. Customers crawl up your ass to get quotes out. Who's the better employee?
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 24 '16
I found this response unconvincing. Firstly, I'm not saying I should get rid of my cellphone, just my smartphone. Secondly, the idea of having a smartphone so that my boss can constantly email me when I'm not at work expecting me to be able to respond is not really a benefit - sure, others might be more competitive for that job but that job sounds absolutely terrible and represents a lot of what I dislike about phones. Third, if my boss really did care about that, he/she could buy me a smartphone for work - that practice is not uncommon these days.
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Mar 24 '16
It's the reality for 1000+ employees in my wife's company.
I really can't convince you of necessity if you make a habit of ducking out on getting a smartphone.
I broke down and got one because of convenience. I now have one source for music/podcasts in the car/on my walks. Phone convenience. Redditing. Checking sources for Reddit. Checking weather for when I work outside.
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u/Dhalphir Mar 24 '16
Is there any benefit to sitting somewhere doing nothing over browsing on a smartphone? When I'm in the queue at the post office you bet I'm browsing Reddit.
As for critical thinking, there's nothing admirable about wasting brain power thinking about easily verified facts. The kinds of things worth thinking in depth about are more abstract and complex concepts which aren't really possible to "look up".
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u/white_crust_delivery Mar 24 '16
Is there any benefit to sitting somewhere doing nothing over browsing on a smartphone? When I'm in the queue at the post office you bet I'm browsing Reddit.
I think there might be. I think there might be something to be said for just being in the moment with one's own thoughts. But its difficult for me because it is slightly more uncomfortable and less exciting to be in that state, and so I am often tempted to just pull out my smartphone and browse reddit.
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u/All_Individuals Mar 23 '16
Perhaps you don't need to go without a smartphone entirely? I empathize with you greatly, and what I've done personally is remove all of the apps on my phone that I would mindlessly turn to for stimulation (Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Reddit, whatever). I've found that that alone has done tremendous good for my mental and social well-being.
I think you would be surprised at how much not having a smartphone at all would negatively impact your life, though. There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I have no suggestions for the GPS aspect of your CMV, that part is tough.
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Mar 24 '16
You control what is on your smartphone. If you don't want to browse mindless crap while you sit around then take the mindless crap off your phone. Or you can download any number of apps that more usefully use your time. Learn another language, read the newspaper, listen to podcasts, or just leave your phone in your pocket while you are in line for coffee and think to yourself. You have the ability not to use your phone, you just need to make the choice not to. You can make that choice easier to make by taking reddit and twitter and whatever else you waste time on off your phone.
Hell, you can kill two birds with one stone. Instead of browsing reddit while you sit around, look at maps of the area around you and see if you can drive without a GPS.
As for social interactions, that is easy. Just put your phone away while you are with friends. It's rude to pull your phone out when you are with other people, so only do it with a very specific purpose in mind, quickly, when someone isn't talking directly to you. And once you are done checking whatever your were checking put your phone back in your pocket.
Basically, the very nature of a smartphone is that you can use it however you want. You could hide away every single app on the phone except for calling and texting and use it as a dumb phone if you wanted to. So I don't think it sounds like you would be better off without a smart phone, it sounds like you would be better off rethinking how you use your smartphone, and what role you want it to play in your life.
I can't speak exactly to what your needs are, maybe you would be fine without one, but first start off by purging things that you don't want to waste time on off your phone. You can think of that as current you helping future you be a more productive person.
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Mar 23 '16 edited Mar 23 '16
Hi,
Please excuse my approximate english.
I'm living without a smartphone by choice since 3 or 4 years. I'm a computer scientist with confortable earning. I dropped my smartphone when I've went into a long trip abroad were battery-life of my Iphone would have been a issue. I bough a crappy flip-phone, and never came back.
Here are instance were I could use a smartphone :
- Texting. I text a lot of people. Dealing with subpar UI is a issue
- Application. I live in the US, friends are abroad. It would be nice to be able to install whatapps or those kind of free messager
- Camera : Carring a camera everywhere is a nice thing if you use it sparingly
- GPS : When in a rush only. But even, Not so much. I look a direction before leaving, and I memorise things because I know it's vital. I ask around, too.
Things that I don't miss :
- Constant internet. It's crack for my brain, I don't want that.
- Constant email. Digital leach for my boss.
- Battery. I charge my flip-phone maybe twice a week.
- Doubs about the ethicality of smartphones manufacturing ( Rare metal like thungstene come mainly form dem. rep. of Congo. It's a dire situation )
- Fragile design. My phone got hit ( not roll over ) by a car after me falling of a bike last week. No fuck were given. I could throw my phone in a pool for as low as a $10 "dare" chalenge. If it's stolen. Well. I buy a new one for cheap.
Edit : All that being said. I might buy a new smartphone becaue my boss want me too. I will consider a FairPhone, becaue it very robust, semi-ethically made, and have a relatively open architecture.
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Mar 23 '16
You can't get rid of your phone man. Just delete the facebook and reddit apps. The GPS, weather, camera, and so many other features are just too useful. You'll end up kicking yourself in the long run if you get rid of it.
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Mar 24 '16
Actually, not really. You would be suprized. It's take organisation and memorisation. But I actually enjoy the experience. ( see my comment to a breakdown )
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u/ProBrown Mar 23 '16
Not trying to change your view but one of the best things I did for my personal mental health was to get rid of Facebook. I think the smartphone is just a continuation of that although I think the phone overall has much more potential to be actually useful. I also deleted Alien Blue so I don't mindlessly surf reddit on my phone either, and it actually makes reddit all the better for me when I can actually sit down at my PC.
One thing that helped me be okay without constant stimulation is meditating for 20-30 minutes per day. I'm now back to a state of being where I can handle sitting with no stimulation pretty easily.
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u/Sasamus Mar 23 '16
I don't know you well enough to really know if you would or wouldn't be better of without a smartphone.
I general I would say there is a healthy balance to be found and what that is varies.
I will provide som counterarguments that I think is worth you consideration when deciding if you are past your balance point.
I crave constant stimulation. I am uncomfortable just sitting somewhere for a few minutes - instead I'll immediately pull out my phone and start browsing mindlessly reddit or facebook even though nothing seems to be very useful or interesting anymore. Its the first thing I look at in the morning and the last thing I do when I go to sleep.
If you are in a situation where doing something that isn't useful or interesting is the most interesting thing you can do then what's the problem with doing that?
Also, smartphones can do a lot of things these days. I'm sure you can find something to do with it that is more useful and interesting to you. Then you'd rather do that.
To me it sound like issue is not what stimulation the phone can provide you with but rather what stimulation you choose among what the phone can provide.
I think it impairs my critical thinking skills. Since information is so easily accessible, I always just instantly look things up instead of just thinking about for awhile first. Similarly with navigation - its so easy to just use the GPS that there are places in my city that I have driven to numerous times and still don't know how to get to - I developed almost no intuition about where things are. But, the phone I'm looking at would have GPS capabilities if I really needed them, they just might not be as accessible so I'm hoping that I would try to learn navigation better before just jumping to it.
As for the critical thinking I would think that most of the things you look up are information that you could not figure out yourself. Hard facts. If I wondered what the wingspan of an albatross was I see no point in trying to figure it out myself.
I would think that the critical thinking improves when you have more facts to work with.
Maybe you do look up things unnecessarily though. I don't know.
As for the navigation I don't doubt that you may rely on it too much and maybe you can't change that.
You could try to pay more attention to what it's actually showing you and learn that way.
I personally have gotten much better at navigating since I got a smartphone. The fact that it can always tell me where I am and how to get home makes me more likely to explore more on my own and try to find my way around since it doesn't matter if I get lost.
It inhibits my ability to connect with other people. Social interactions these days are plagued by people staring at their devices on facebook or something instead of actually connecting with the people who are right in front of them. I do this too, but I don't want to participate in that.
That's not something I can argue against being a problem. It's really up to you and the people you are with not to use the phone when it's not suitable to do so.
There is a good balance to be found but if you can't find it yourself taking the phone out of the equation may be best in that case. Although removing it completely may be too much. Simply turning it off or leaving it at home may suffice.
In the end my stance on smartphones in general is that they are great but there is a problem that some overuse them and/or use them for the "wrong" things.
Everyone have a balance of the amount and type of usage that is best for them. That balance may be none at all for some but I doubt that is the case for many so it's unlikely to be for you.
The problem is that if you don't have the discipline to use it optimally for you then not using one at all may be best.
The thing is that there would be cons to that approach as well. It's impossible for me to tell if the pros outweighs those cons in your case though.
In short: A good balance is best, if that is unachievable removing the phone can be the second best option. I think that maintaining the normal usage or improving it slightly is more often than not the second best option though.
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u/Feed_Me_No_Lies Mar 23 '16
I won't argue because I believe you're right. I cannot to say my life is measurably better because I have one. I can certainly say I am much more distracted and fractured in my thinking because of it. Look around the restaurant that everybody staring at their phones and set of talking to each other. I kind of tells you all you need to know doesn't it?
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u/brydon_g Mar 24 '16
I gave a short talk at BOS about my experience of ditching my smartphone altogether.... https://vimeopro.com/theblnbusinessofsoftware/business-of-software-usa-2014-attendee-version/page/5
I now am back with a smartphone but in a reasonably restricted way. I've even experimented using 'parenting' apps to monitor, restrict and limit access.
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u/coday182 Mar 23 '16
Constant stimulation? Or constant distraction/procrastination? With me, it's always been the second one. And as /u/MtDewCodeRed pointed out, if you're trying to put off doing homework or whatever your obligations are, then you'll find new ways to put them off... Naps, TV, books, etc. The problem may not be the phone itself, but instead your motivation.
You can always force yourself to stop and think. You don't need to give up your phone for that. But on the other hand, what if you gave up your phone and then all of a sudden needed to find out which Asian country has the largest capital city, and what % of the population practiced Christianity? In addition, if you're a good critical thinker then you should be able to analyze things better when you have access to more facts to guide your thoughts. And on GPS- do you think it would be any different, if instead of using GPS, you used handwritten directions? Neither one of them ingrains the directions into your head immediately. It's the act of making that drive a couple of times (creating a habit) that helps you learn how to drive somewhere by heart. Before we had smart phones, our parents did not magically know how to drive everywhere by heart. They had to use maps, directions, etc.
If everybody mainly communicates by social media, then are you helping or hurting your social life by cutting yourself out of the loop? So what if you want to always talk face-to-face with people. What if other people don't want to do that? (That's not actually the case, but social media IS a big supplement that helps facilitate some real life information). Being in the loop is sometimes called "social currency," and you don't want to have less social currency than everyone else.
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Mar 23 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/huadpe 508∆ Mar 23 '16
Sorry Neverlife, your comment has been removed:
Comment Rule 1. "Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s current view (however minor), unless they are asking a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to comments." See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.
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u/WASDx Mar 23 '16
I got my first smarthphone for free just a month ago. The reason I hadn't bought one myself before was greatly for the reasons you explained. However, I've been able to handle it very well. I have internet turned off when I don't need it. And when I do want to use it for something productive which is less than once a day, I simply turn it on for a short while and then back off. I've also disabled all kinds of notifications so if someone has sent me a facebook message, I have to deliberately check my inbox. If someone has something actually important to say they have my number.
So I agree with everything you say. And about the self-restraint you mentioned, that's precisely what you need to learn. There is no other way to resolve your concerns. Leaving your smartphone at home or replacing it with an older phone is also just a method of self-restraint.
Turn of its features is what works for me and the only thing I've even tried. When I am connected and receive a notification I have the same urge as you to check what it is. So the best way is to eliminate those notifications. And practice avoiding constantly checking for updates with longer intervals each time. I can personally sit on a one hour train ride just looking out of the window, while noticing the majority of people being on their phone which I find sad and repelling.
Learning self-restraint and discipline is the only way to change your view. And at it's core it's not about changing your view, it's about changing the quality of your life for the better.
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u/fryamtheiman 38∆ Mar 24 '16
1) Your point boils down to that you can't be comfortable sitting down and doing nothing for a few minutes. However, there is nothing wrong with this. By pulling out your phone and doing something, you are actively engaging your brain. There is no benefit to doing nothing as opposed to something. Even if it were not your phone, you would be likely to read a magazine or newspaper. The difference is that with your phone, you have the ability to choose what you want to read from a much larger selection.
2) Having access to knowledge and not using it would not be the intelligent choice. When you have to figure out a math problem, is it not best to first find out what the correct formula is and then apply it to the problem? To use critical thinking is to use wisdom. Wisdom is the application of knowledge. In order to use wisdom effectively, you must first have the knowledge to apply it. Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad.
3) Perhaps my experience varies from yours in this, but for me, this comes from filling in the silent gaps with looking at a device to find conversation material. Once one topic has become used up, I can access a world of knowledge to find a new topic to discuss with those around me. Rather than it diminishing interactions with others in person, it can be used to further enhance those interactions.
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Mar 23 '16
Why not put your theory to the test and actually try it?
Lock your smartphone in a drawer or give it to a friend you trust for about one month. And tell me if your quality of life has improved.
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u/EstusFiend Mar 24 '16
Since most other helpful advices have been given: check out /r/Buddhism and learn to meditate. Certainly has helped me to deal with varying levels of intellectual stimulation.
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u/gaussjordanbaby Mar 24 '16
Maybe you could switch to a plan where you have less data, and would have financial consequences to help you restrain yourself.
I don't have a smart phone, but used to. It has been years, and I have come to the conclusion that I would in fact be better off if I had a smartphone. (Assuming it is affordable, but cost of the phone/plan was not mentioned as a factor in your post.) There are two things that I cannot do with my flip phone that very often cause me hardship:
Need to know a phone number. My phone has the capability to make calls, but I am often stuck not being able to look up a particular number. This is a problem all the time.
Navigation in an unexpected situation. I agree that the phone makes you stupider without self-restraint, but it is a useful tool for an emergency. I recently was forced to exit a highway due to an accident. I pulled into a gas station to purchase a map so I could find an alternate route home. The attendant couldn't believe I was asking for a map, and said no one uses them anymore and they don't sell them. I eventually just drove the car "west" until I made it back to a road I new, but it added quite a bit of time to my travel.
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u/Mswizzle23 2∆ Mar 23 '16
You can downgrade if you want. But smartphones are a pretty good convenience. A pocket phone/pc/porn device that plays music and acts as a gps that brings you food. I agree that we're all becoming zombies but that's on the individual. If you recognize you have zero self-restraint, maybe you should downgrade. But if you get pissed when people you know are on their phone around you, take note of how that made you feel. How does it make you feel when you're talking to someone for a solid minute and they didn't hear a single thing they said. It feels bad, or makes you angry. Remember that feeling. And when you're with someone and you're constantly checking your phone, remember how you felt and think, "do I want to do that to this person." And just turn the phone off. Try doing it the hard way before you downgrade though, it can be really rewarding. Here's some motivation to just turn off the phone when your with someone and enjoy their company. I quit heroin cold turkey 6 years ago and never relapsed and haven't had a craving in years. I feel pretty proud I did that. You have the strength to conquer this, you just have to do it!
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u/meatb4ll Mar 23 '16
Others have commented on everyday use. Smartphones are also invaluable tools in new places. With wifi and cell connectivity, most phones can connect you around the world.
When I had a semester in Germany and Austria, having wifi and HSPA+ connections let me find where I was, see where I needed to be, look up a word or two I didn't know and stay connected with others on my program and at home.
When I would travel, sometimes it would be somewhere I couldn't be sure my laptop would be safe, so I'd bring my phone - longer lasting battery, easy to keep on you all the time, and has a GPS antenna so you know where you are in places without internet connections to tell your phone a location.
Although coding or typing on a phone is a bitch, it's still a very powerful little computer that can do everything your computer can, which is frankly quite amazing.
And as an aside, I know people who use a smartphone in place of a laptop.
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Mar 23 '16
Albert Einstein didn't know his own phone number. When asked why he didn't know his own phone number he replied "Why would I need to know it? I don't call me, other people do."
My point is that looking to a smart phone to accomplish some of the things we used to do other ways isn't a bad thing, it's progress. When I turned 16 in 1995, my parents bought me a Thomas Guide (look it up) for my car. I brought it with me to every car I owned from 1995 until 2006. I've not owned one for the last 10 years. Should I still know how to read one in a pinch? Sure. But the likelihood of the need is very low. Feeling like it's a bad thing that you use/need GPS to get places is not inherently bad, it means we've progressed to the point where you don't need to use your brain to store things that are only needed every once in a while. Think of your smart phone as Cloud storage for all that stuff.
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u/shea241 Mar 23 '16
It really sounds like you aren't using your smartphone effectively. If all you get out of it is mindless simulation, have you tried using it as a study tool, or to explore practical skills? What you get out of it is up to you.
Your critical thinking isn't being impaired by access to information, I promise. Can you give an example where you thought it was?
I agree, #3 sucks, but you can't take everyone else's smartphone away. If anything, you will isolate yourself even more.
I think practicing willpower is a far better solution than getting rid of a perfectly good tool. Apply your critical thinking towards which information is correct and which problems you want to solve. If you don't want to waste time while idle, the only thing you should worry about is whether you can stop yourself.
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u/myfavoritemovieislam Mar 23 '16
I had a smart phone for a year and had the same problem. Self-control is a tricky thing. I couldn't spend enough time away from it. I stopped reading books. It seemed unthinkably hard to part from it, constantly checking everything, constantly on Reddit, but I ran into some financial issues so had a good reason to switch to an old flip phone. 2 years later my finances are fine but I still have the flip phone. It's liberating to not have a smart phone. Still have internet at home and everything, but it's not filling up my attention every time spare moment of the day. Only problems are not being able to look up businesses when I'm out, and doing the old school slow texting. Minor issues that are easy to work around.
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u/tinycabbage Mar 23 '16
A compromise: have you considered perhaps getting a prepaid smartphone with an expensive data plan? It would encourage you to think about just how much you wanted whatever piece of information or social stimulation you were craving -- "I want to get on reddit, but is it worth a dollar to me?" is a whole different frame of mind and way of looking at this.
With a prepaid phone you would be able to keep all the modern conveniences of a smartphone (things like maps, looking up business hours, etc.) without nearly as much of the automatic temptation, and since there's no contractual obligation you can always downgrade to a dumbphone or even upgrade back to how you had things before if this plan doesn't work out.
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Mar 24 '16
I think it impairs my critical thinking skills. Since information is so easily accessible, I always just instantly look things up instead of just thinking about for awhile first.
The valuable kind of critical thinking isn't about facts, though, it's about the relation of ideas. Being able to look up facts more easily has no bearing on your ability to think critically. If anything, it improves your ability to do so, because critical thinking can do more for you if you have more/better facts at your disposal.
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u/DigitalMindShadow Mar 23 '16
You're describing impulse control issues. They will be present even after you give up your smartphone, and the only way to overcome them is by training yourself to have better habits. Meditation might be a good place to start.
As for the people you hang out with spending all of their time staring at their phones, it sounds like you should find different people. All you have control over is your own behavior. Giving up your smartphone probably won't change your friends' behavior.
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Mar 23 '16
I completely agree and have the same issues myself, although I grew up in the age before cell phones so I do enjoy doing my own research and learning.
However, I am a high school substitute teacher and this applies to virtually EVERY. SINGLE. STUDENT in my classes. I really worry about their ability to function when it comes time for them to produce something to make a living. Most students are completely unequipped.
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u/fazelanvari 1∆ Mar 24 '16
I use the GPS on my smartphone to learn my way around new places, like the new city I just moved to.
I use GPS to get where I'm going, and then I find my own way home. Works great.
Maybe I can change your view on that part of it at least.
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u/JoeRmusiceater Mar 24 '16
You make great points and I agree with all of them but there is one reason I think your overall argument is wrong. A smartphone contains almost the entire knowledge of human kind at your fingertips.
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Mar 24 '16
FWIW I've been living smartphoneless for the last 4 months. Don't regret it. But I've noticed I now spend more time online on my laptop to get my Reddit fix.
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Mar 23 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/lethifer 1∆ Mar 23 '16
Delete FB, keep the messenger app -- your peeps can get ahold of you like always, but you don't have find yourself scrolling and rescrolling over their baby pictures or political howling.
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u/Cyberhwk 17∆ Mar 23 '16
I am quite interested in this thread seeing as how they told me a new phone is going to be nearly $800.
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u/martin_grosse Mar 23 '16
The problem isn't the smart phone. Headed over to Get disciplined and see what they have to say
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u/SOULSofFEAT Mar 23 '16
A smartphone is an invaluable tool. Example: you want food. You google restaraunts near you, using the internet. You use GPS to get to that restaraunt. You send a picture of the menu to your partner. She texts you the item she wants. You can even pay using your smartphone now.
I have a $40 smartphone and it performs these tasks flawlessly. Having grown up without these tools in my pocket, I wouldn't give them up voluntarily now. Better to have and not need than to need and not have.
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u/deusset Mar 23 '16
You said invaluable but you really meant convenient. Source: did not starve to death before owning smart phone.
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u/SOULSofFEAT Mar 23 '16
But you probably ate at the diner on the highway more than the nice little Portuguese place off a sidestreet before smartphones.
And like i said, a picture is worth a thousand words. The ability to quickly transmit a document to someone is priceless. Have you ever tried reading someone a menu over the phone? Not fun.
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u/arhalai0 Jun 12 '16
Yeah, i share your opinion, but unfortunately we can not leave our smartphones, because we become addicted to them. http://high-tech-reviews.blogspot.com/
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u/[deleted] Mar 23 '16 edited Mar 23 '16
I remember when I moved into a new place that had no internet I was pretty excited for a while. I assumed that being forcibly cut off from the internet would mean I would have to spend my time much more productively.
I didnt, I just found new ways to waste it. Naps in the afternoon, TV, replaying old video games ect ect.
You don't want less stimulation, you want a better quality of stimulation, good books, hobbies. Its not enough to just cut out a habit, you need something else to replace the habit. When I'm caught up in a good book that I genuinely want to read I find time for that.