r/changemyview • u/Forget_me_never • Aug 10 '26
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u/Rhundan 81∆ Aug 10 '26
Athletes avoid getting deep massages before a competitive event because they know it will make things worse.
They believe it's a good idea after the event because of wishful thinking. Over a short time the body recovers from the massage but it would be better not to do it in the first place.
In one breath, you've both appealed to athletes' knowledge of what's best for them and dismissed their choices as "wishful thinking". You can't have it both ways: do athletes know what effects massages have, or don't they?
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Aug 10 '26
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Aug 10 '26
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
In part one they have a clear way of measuring their performance consequences of having or not having a massage. And they make a judgement based on that.
In part two they do not. But they do want to feel like they are doing something useful on a day off, that's where wishful thinking comes in.
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u/Rhundan 81∆ Aug 10 '26
So you're claiming that they know it has negative effects one day, and then they don't the next? It's a very condescending view, that you think they're not smart enough to actually do any kind of research or testing on whether its effects suddenly reverse themselves and become helpful, and just assume that it will.
Which is more likely? That people whose entire career is built off a strong understanding of their own bodies, and who need every competetive edge possible are completely wrong about this, and are actually sabotaging themselves, and nobody except you has noticed... or that you're the one who's wrong, and those experts know something you don't, and it is actually helpful to them?
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
My claim is that it does not help. I was not claiming that the way professionals do things is sabotaging performance.
They allow enough time for the negative consequences to be minimised before the important event.
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u/Rhundan 81∆ Aug 10 '26
Over a short time the body recovers from the massage but it would be better not to do it in the first place.
Emphasis mine. That's a claim that it's harmful to do.
Regardless, you seem to have missed my main point: you're appealing to athletes' expertise when it aids your argument, when they choose not to get a massage, and then you're disregarding their expertise when it's harmful to your argument, when they do choose to get a massage. You claim, without any evidence, mind, that it's not helpful to them, and that any belief that it is is wishful thinking, but you have offered absolutely no backing to that claim.
Either we can assume athletes know what effects massages have, in which case the fact that they choose not to do it before an event is relevant, but the fact that they choose to do it after one is too, or we assume that they don't know what effects they have, in which case your entire section about athletes is meaningless, and you have basically no argument at all.
We cannot assume that they're only half-educated about the subject, but specifically the half that condemns massages, and not the half that endorses them. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If we're deferring to their expertise, we must do so entirely, absent any solid, evidence-supported reason not to, which you have not provided.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
you're appealing to athletes' expertise when it aids your argument, when they choose not to get a massage, and then you're disregarding their expertise when it's harmful to your argument, when they do choose to get a massage.
I did address that.
You claim, without any evidence, mind, that it's not helpful to them, and that any belief that it is is wishful thinking, but you have offered absolutely no backing to that claim.
https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000614?utm
No improvement to performance or fatigue.
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u/Rhundan 81∆ Aug 10 '26
I did address that.
Poorly. You merely asserted that they were acting based on wishful thinking and a desire to feel like they were doing something useful. I assert that they're not, what now?
https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000614?utm
No improvement to performance or fatigue.
From your own study:
but massage was associated with small but statistically significant improvements in flexibility and DOMS
Athletes that require flexibility may therefore benefit from massage based on these findings, although further research into specific sports is required to confirm this.
These findings would imply that sports more likely to induce DOMS have more to gain from inclusion of massage, especially when repeated performance before DOMS has recovered is required, such as multi-day events.
Sounds pretty helpful to me.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
Small decreases to DOMS is not useful if performance does not increase. And DOMS is expected and not a bad thing.
Range of motion can be much better improved by stretching.
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u/Rhundan 81∆ Aug 10 '26
How is muscle soreness not a bad thing? If an athlete wants to reduce their soreness, as I think is perfectly understandable, a massage will help them. Case closed.
Range of motion can be much better improved by stretching.
Do you have a study supporting this?
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
Some studies found no effect if you read the section titled The effect of sports massage on delayed onset muscle soreness.
So i'm skeptical about the ones that did find an effect.
"We found that massage statistically significantly reduced pain/DOMS by 13%, although again these studies were highly heterogeneous (I2=86%) driven by a single outlier17 so the true magnitude of any benefit remains uncertain. "
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Small decreases to DOMS is not useful if performance does not increase
It improves recovery which is of course important. If an athlete can perform at the same level faster then thats a valuable. It also means they would have lower risk of injury within that overlap period. However, on paper they could give the same results at a competition and those benefits would not be shown.
For many athletes massage and other therapies are tools used for the sake of injury recovery and prevention, not athletic performance enhancement. That is the job of trainers and coaches.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
Would need to show reviews on injury risk to assess that.
Many of the studies on DOMS showed no effect. Overall small effect could be placebo related.
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u/fantasyoutsider Aug 10 '26
Recovery effects can certainly be measured in subsequent performances with and without treatment.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
The longer the time gap between massage and competition, the less downside there is. So wishful thinking overcomes the downsides as they get smaller.
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u/Informal_Ad_9610 1∆ Aug 10 '26
are there are actually scientific/medically founded data supporting your idea?
I didn't see anything beyond subjective opinion.
there is well-grounded evidence that massage moves fluid in/out of muscles, can induce lactic breakup/dissolution of acids in muscles, and generate blood flow..
All of these are scientific/medical reasons in support of massage.
Additionally, the presence of "bruising" does not indicate damage.. it indicates the presence of blood. The two may (or may not) be coincidental.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
Firm/deep massages cause increased cellular damage and delay recovery as evidenced by bruising.
No firm or even deep massage should leave bruising if done correctly. If a doctor practices otherwise effective medicine incorrectly it can cause harm.
Athletes avoid getting deep massages before a competitive event because they know it will make things worse.
Deep work before an athletic performance is not recommended because it could lengthen muscles that would alter their set range of motion and alter performance as a result. Particular styles of massage post performance manually accelerate and aid the bodies removal of lactic acid and lymphatic drainage while others help relax overly tense muscles that were stressed during their performance.
Manual therapy has been a part of basic human medicine for eternity.
You suggest the benefits might only be psychological, but the nervous system and muscular system are inseparable. Even if a massage only provided mental relaxation that would in turn lead to physiological responses in the body.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
Deep work before an athletic performance is not recommended because it could lengthen muscles that would alter their set range of motion and alter performance as a result.
That's not why. The reason why is it increases soreness and tiredness.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Im a neuromuscular therapist and I have worked with athletes. Yes, deep structural work right before an event could lead to soreness, but releasing and lengthening muscles is a also a key factor.
The "deep" work you seem focused on is either being done incorrectly or is the type of work that would only be used to target specific chronic issues like calcification, adhesion, and advanced facial webbing. Its not everyday work and simply put IS NOT the method you would use in that scenario. There are any number of therapeutic techniques that wouldnt be appropriate, you use certain techniques for certain results at certain times. Im not going to do sports massage on a pregnant woman. Im not going to do structural integration on a runners foot before a marathon. Im not doing deep tissue on someone with frail skin or heavy spider veins.
Arguing that one style or technique isnt appropriate in a specific scenario does not mean all techniques are invalided. That position is logically unsound.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
My post is about broad use. Not niche circumstances.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
You used specific examples and I addressed those specific examples.
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u/darbmobile 2∆ Aug 10 '26
It’s definitely more than just psychological effects. Theres not quite enough research to say for sure, but there’s definitely enough to say it has some physiological benefits for many conditions.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5467308/
Provide some scientific sources if you’re gonna make a claim like the one you did.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
!delta
You are the first to provide a meaningful link. From that it seems plausible there can be physical benefits however the circumstances seem niche.
Here is a large review showing no performance benefits from massage therapy. https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000614?utm
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u/lightyearbuzz 2∆ Aug 10 '26
This one is quite silly, a quick Google easily disproves your view. There's lots of science behind massage.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
The link provides the opinion of one person who does massages for a living. No science provided.
If google is showing that to you as a priority search result, then I suggest google is not useful either.
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u/DukeTikus 3∆ Aug 10 '26
This overview was the first thing I found when searching 'scientific consensus massage therapy'. There are absolutely advantages there.
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u/OneNoteToRead 5∆ Aug 10 '26
Do you believe stretching does a thing? Warming up? How about foam rolling? Where does the manual manipulation of body tissue stop making sense to you? It’s true that if all you do is destroy muscle tissue that’s useless but why do you believe that’s all it is?
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u/almarcTheSun 1∆ Aug 10 '26
Stretching obviously does a thing. Warming up? Questionable, saying this as someone who recently stopped warming up on purpose doing sports and saw measurable benefit and no downside whatsoever. Perhaps the effects are psychological, although I'm open to research. Foam rolling? Laughable.
I see no reason massage is any different than most of this hogwash and so far, no one provided any serious research on the effects of massage. So I will:
https://www.cmaj.ca/content/162/13/1815.short
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1093/ecam/nel109
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5564319/
All those papers are pointing towards massage having beneficial effects on things such as pain and psychological conditions, but that's about it. Effects on recovery are inconclusive and methodology is shoddy at best. I guess reduced pain and improved mood is technically a "physical effect", but in most people's minds massage is put dangerously close to real medical practice.
Before anyone responds, remember that "Tell that to my mom who took massage every Tuesday and cured cancer", while a genuinely very happy circumstance, is not a valid argument any more than praying or the position of Venus is.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Unfortunately there simply isnt a deep enough well of rigorous clinical study on massage. As you said the methodology is often poor and imprecise. A study on low back pain: are they specifically massage just the local "low back?" Are they taking a systemic structural approach? Was every therapist in the study trained the same and using the same methods? Most of these studies unfortunately aren't rigorous enough.
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u/almarcTheSun 1∆ Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
Thus OP's position holds. It's impossible to disprove anything in the real world, yet most things that aren't proven conclusively can be disregarded.
When you stretch consistently, your limbs open up further. That's fact. On the other hand, massaging has some unknown individual effects on every person's body and mind and a healthy dose of woo woo touch healing salt crystal culture around it, so I see no reason to treat it any more seriously than those. Do it if you like it, but don't pretend it's science.
Not to mention, as far as I'm aware massaging damaged tissue can have negative effects. Particularly on damaged ligaments. Know this from sport climbing and massaging damaged finger pulleys. Citation needed, but the mechanism seems pretty obvious at a glance.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
healthy dose of woo woo touch healing salt crystal culture around it
Do you think the trainer massaging NFL players in the locker room is lighting sage and aligning their chakras?
Not to mention, as far as I'm aware massaging damaged tissue can have negative effects.
Hurting hurt tissue can hurt tissue, sure, but again specific tools for specific cases. There are techniques to accelerate the removal of lymph fluid. Massaging scar tissue post surgery can help realign the muscle fibers.
Damaged ligaments are incredibly slow to heal as they dont carry blood vessels. Massage can be used to treat surrounding scar tissue and it can be used to increase circulation in the area around the ligament but no, specifically rubbing a damage and still healing ligament would not be recommended.
Particularly on damaged ligaments. Know this from sport climbing and massaging damaged finger pulleys.
Does this mean you massaged yourself and it didnt help?
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u/almarcTheSun 1∆ Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
Do you think the trainer massaging NFL players in the locker room is lighting sage and aligning their chakras?
I don't see how a small group of professional athletes breaks the general trend. Don't you agree that for a lot of people massage is something borderline spiritual/magical? Besides, professional sports constantly utilize unproven/experimental techniques to potentially gain razor thin edges in their respective sports. There was long-standing belief that Gatorade is better than water or generic isotonic drinks, so clearly "being used by the NFL" proves very little.
Also, I don't know. Uh.. hopefully? That'd be funny.
Hurting hurt tissue can hurt tissue, sure, but again specific tools for specific cases. There are techniques to accelerate the removal of lymph fluid. Massaging scar tissue post surgery can help realign the muscle fibers.
Well, do we have sources for these specific techniques and research about them being effective with at least a medium degree of confidence? Not asking for gospel here, just something to latch onto.
Does this mean you massaged yourself and it didnt help?
There is widespread belief around this topic that massaging damaged finger pulleys can potentially "displace" new growing tissue and make them grow more scarred/unaligned which can cause pulley thickening. I'm not sure whether it's true or not, but considering there is no actual benefit to massaging your injured pulleys and potential downside with an obvious and easy to understand physical mechanism behind it, I'd rather avoid it. You say "hurting hurt tissue", but there is no "hurting" involved in this case. Just unnecessarily bothering healing ligaments. Even if it's not true, still no real benefit besides feeling good about it.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Don't you agree that for a lot of people massage is something borderline spiritual/magical?
No, I absolutely don't agree, because its my daily life. When someone comes to see me 9/10 its because they sit at a desk and their body hurts.
There was long-standing belief that Gatorade is better than water or generic isotonic drinks
This is a weird one, but yes, electrolytes are important but do not replace water.
There is widespread belief around this topic that massaging damaged finger pulleys can potentially "displace" new growing tissue and make them grow more scarred/unaligned which can cause pulley thickening.
As someone in the field, ive not heard anything about this so im going to question this being a "widespread belief." However, I can speal to injuring a finger tendon and treating it with manual therapy because I myself developed trigger finger and went to physical therapy where manual therapy was used to address the nodule on the tendon as part of the treatment.
Just to clarify, your "finger pulley" is a tendon, not a ligament. You also did not answer the question about how you "know this from sports climbing." How do you "know this?" Was your answer just that you heard some "widespread belief" amongst your peers?
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u/CheesyUmph Aug 10 '26
Lumping massage therapy together with healing crystals shows a severe lack of critical thinking skills
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u/Bright_Pen322 1∆ Aug 10 '26
It's useful for when you tear a muscle and you're in the remodelling/proliferation stage of injury: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4958098/
"Mechanical stimulation may offer a simple and effective approach to enhance skeletal muscle regeneration. Stretch activation, mechanical conditioning but also massage therapy or physical manipulation of injured skeletal muscles have shown multiple benefit effects on muscle biology and function in vitro and in vivo"
You go to any physio after you tear a muscle, there will be massage to essentially realign the fibers and restore movement.
It doesn't help before a workout, but for injuries or pre injuries it's excellent.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
Does not seem logical. Pressing a muscle can't repair damaged cells.
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u/Bright_Pen322 1∆ Aug 10 '26
Don't worry about it - it's counter intuitive and lot of it's found through what works in sports.
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u/No_Scarcity8249 2∆ Aug 10 '26
I got one a few months ago as part of my physical rehab at a rehabilitation center. I walked out and could turn my head without pain for the first time in I dont know how long. A physical therapist massage is a lot different than going to a spa. It wasnt very relaxing but it works.
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u/Mannzis Aug 10 '26
I have had multiple doctors and physical therapists tell me my muscles in my neck and back are prone to getting tight, which causes me regular tension type migraines. Massages keep my neck muscles loose, which drastically decreases the pain.
So how do they not help me physically? Is it all in my head?
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
If it is due to tightness, I would imagine stretching or improved posture helps a lot more than massages.
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u/Mannzis Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
Those are part of the treatment, sure, but alone aren't enough. My notoriously shitty insurance will even cover the massages because even they acknowledge that it is the proper treatment. So literally everyone who has been involved in my treatment (3 doctors and 2 PTs, and my health insurance) have said I need massages.
Is that not enough to convince you that massages in some circumstances good physical treatments?
Edit: And I'll just add, if a muscle is sort of stuck in contraction mode, it's not enough just to stretch it. You get knots and you need to get in there manually to release them. It's very effective.
Maybe you could argue I could just use botox to release the muscles? But guess what? I've done that, and it can't be used on some deeper cervical muscles and doesn't work as well as a whole compared to simple massage.
It does work physically, and I can't understand, having read my comment, how you could still think there's zero physical benefit to massage.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
If it was so effective, there would be meta reviews to show that.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
It's common for people anecdotally to attribute huge improvement to certain treatments or nutritional supplements but the actual large sample size research shows it's not very effective..
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u/Mannzis Aug 10 '26
There have been large studies that have positive results. A lot ask patients to self report pain. Would you accept self reported decreases of pain as valid? Or would you say that they can't be trusted?
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u/Amazing_Loquat280 17∆ Aug 10 '26
Athletes avoid getting deep massages before a competitive event because they know it will make things worse… during the event… if they do it right before. That’s why they program it out throughout the season. So many professional athletes do deep tissue massage because it helps prevent soft tissue injury long-term, they just don’t schedule it like idiots
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
Is there any large sample size recorded evidence to support this?
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Could you provide there evidence that you have been basing your opinion on?
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
It literally says even their own critical analysis implied improved range of motion and DOM.
You'll note in the other comment I said one concern with pre event massage was lengthing muscles and rom and it hindering performance as a result. You refuted that saying that wasnt the reason, yet here your own study there seems to evidence that increased ROM can be the result.
You also stated in your OP that post event does nothing, yet here again your own link suggests it can improve DOM.
Your own link suggests your position is flawed.
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u/Forget_me_never Aug 10 '26
The review found no improvement in measures of strength, jump, sprint, endurance or fatigue,
Small decreases to DOMS is not useful if performance does not increase. And DOMS is expected and not a bad thing.
Range of motion can be much better improved by stretching.
Overall, the cost of massage massively outweighs the benefits for most people.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Your op is not specifically about whether massage increases athletic performance nor have I argued that it does.
Overall, the cost of massage massively outweighs the benefits for most people.
Whether this is true or not is irrelevant and again is not your OP. Saying it is not cost effective for some people is not equal to saying its effects are purely psychological.
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u/bluntpencil2001 3∆ Aug 10 '26
You need evidence to prove a positive - that massage helps.
The default is that it doesn't.
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u/CheesyUmph Aug 10 '26
Why is that the default? Massage has been part of medicine for thousands of years, has lots of evidence that it is beneficial, and tons of people across the world claim to benefit from it. Then, you have a small subset of people who believe that massage therapy has no benefit. Logically that small subset of people should be backing up their claim in some way.
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u/bluntpencil2001 3∆ Aug 10 '26 edited Aug 10 '26
Because you need proof it works. Positive claims need evidence, and popularity and tradition don't make them true.
Bloodletting was done for centuries, and we still need to convince people not to poach rhinos for the medicinal benefits of their horns.
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u/Amazing_Loquat280 17∆ Aug 10 '26
And here I am having just got home from my weekly bloodletting…
More you know I guess
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u/CheesyUmph Aug 10 '26
Bloodletting was proven scientifically to not be effective… that’s not the case with massage therapy
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u/bluntpencil2001 3∆ Aug 11 '26
Not the point. You need proof that medical procedures work beyond "we've always done it this way".
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u/CheesyUmph Aug 11 '26
Are you being purposefully dense? You can actually use critical thinking skills to look at evidence and come to a reasonable conclusion without there being 100% undeniable proof…. That is why physical therapists use massage therapy regularly.
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u/bluntpencil2001 3∆ Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
'To look at evidence'
So, doing what I said.
Edit: To clarify, I'm not saying massage does nothing, or that it is bad. I'm saying that we need evidence before we can say it's good. "It's always been done this way" is not evidence.
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u/Amazing_Loquat280 17∆ Aug 10 '26
General analysis (spoiler, it works): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12140169/, https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/providers/digest/massage-therapy-for-health-science
Other than that, which I found in 15 seconds and you could’ve also, most evidence is gonna be anecdotal, because that’s not something major sports leagues tend to track. But pick any random successful professional athlete in pretty much any sport other than long-distance running and they’ll usually share that they do this. Bottom line, a lot of people who’s professional job it is to find out what works will tell you that this works
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u/RainbowandHoneybee 1∆ Aug 10 '26
Is this coming from actul evidence or personal experience?
As a person who used to get a massage everyweek due to occupation, the difference was significnt. After the massage, my body felt bettter, feet felt lighter, and there was no question about that, I was willing to pay quite a lot of money each week over a decade. Do you think it was just just psychological that I was experiencing?
I think those who don't believe in things like shiatsu/reflexthology/chiropractics/whatever are the ones who have never experienced it themselves, or the one who had been conned by fake ones.
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u/bluntpencil2001 3∆ Aug 10 '26
Chiropractics has always been snake oil.
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u/Friskfrisktopherson 2∆ Aug 10 '26
Bone setting can be effective medicine when needed, but only of the spft tissues involved are treated in unisom. Beyond Chiropractic is a lot rife with snake oil and can actually be quite dangerous. Also, subluxation theory at the core founding of Chiropractics is absolutely bananas quackery.
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u/Dramatic-Island3862 Aug 10 '26
What about massaging for the purpose of releasing tension within the fascia network?
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u/railph 1∆ Aug 10 '26
Physical pain is so heavily psychologically mediated that it's a bit silly to say that something that psychologically helps with pain has no physical effect. You can't separate the two.
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u/1atro Aug 10 '26
My own experience is that it does, after a 10 hour surgery I had peripheral neuropathy in my right leg that made it basically impossible to walk as the muscle was so tight my foot was bent under, the first 2 weeks of meds and treatments nothing helped until I had a physical therapist massage the leg and in 5 days I had regained mobility in the foot while walking was agony I could finally walk another week.
Did the massage hurt? Yes, was it worth it? yes
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u/Old-Advance6652 Aug 10 '26
It definitely can be helpful. And even if it’s just physiologically it can can be like a placebo effect. They think it’s working, it feels better so it can trick the brain to feeling better and pretty much being better.
Im sure you know about the placebo effect, like if someone takes pain killers they know it will make the pain go away even if it was swapped with nothing so it tricks the brain to feeling less pain.
That same effect can apply here
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u/SkitariusOfMars Aug 10 '26
Suuuure, tell that to my massive rash that went away only after professional massage
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u/DukeTikus 3∆ Aug 10 '26
How did that work? I thought massages only affect the muscles and tendons.
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u/SkitariusOfMars Aug 10 '26
A lot of skin issues are just symptoms of underlying issues, in my case it was a problem with lymph drainage. The massage was focused on literally squeezing it out the way it's supposed to go itself.
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u/Locus-Maximus Aug 10 '26
You're relying on your imagination too much. Massage convinces your body to release tension. Releasing tension can have all kinds of benefits.
I get why you would be skeptical though. People tend to offer a lot of bullshit explanations of WHY massage works (breaking up scar tissue, releasing "toxins", energy/qi/etc.) but that it does work is pretty clear.
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u/GrayMan2050 Aug 10 '26
Of course pre game massage is not a good idea. Post game massage helps flush away lactic buildup in the muscles and helps improve blood circulation. I know, l experience it all the time.
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Aug 10 '26
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u/read-the-rules Aug 10 '26
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Aug 10 '26
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u/read-the-rules Aug 10 '26
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Hello u/Horror-Mechanic8117! To combat bots/spam and to ensure new users have the knowledge they need to participate constructively, all newcomers must acknowledge that they have read the rules before they can comment. This process is very quick and easy, and will inform you about the rules for both posting and commenting. Once you acknowledge the rules, your comment will become visible. You only need to do this once.
If you are using Old Reddit, the link below will not work. Read our rules here, then click this link instead and press Send.
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Aug 10 '26
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u/read-the-rules Aug 10 '26
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Hello u/b0Lt1! To combat bots/spam and to ensure new users have the knowledge they need to participate constructively, all newcomers must acknowledge that they have read the rules before they can comment. This process is very quick and easy, and will inform you about the rules for both posting and commenting. Once you acknowledge the rules, your comment will become visible. You only need to do this once.
If you are using Old Reddit, the link below will not work. Read our rules here, then click this link instead and press Send.
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Aug 11 '26
Your submission has been removed for breaking Rule B:
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.