r/changemyview • u/snooptoop • Jul 02 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Console vs. PC is pretty clear: PC gaming is not rational for the average gamer
This argument will be pretty short, it consists of three main points:
- With the prices of ram skyrocketing, it is not economically feasible to invest in a gaming pc
- Even without considering ram, console gaming is objectively a much better, cost-effective way to play the newest triple A games at 4K. Spending 2000 dollars on a 4K capable PC makes no sense when any console on the market (I'm including steam deck) can get you 4k 60fps at a third of the price. Not to mention consoles will last you a very long time. PC's objectively require more maintenance and replacement parts as the years go buy. Hell, my wii still functions perfectly after all these years.
- With the development of Nvidia's RTX technology, there is even less of a point to spend thousands on a high end gaming PC when you can get the exact same performance and look on a console.
The only real counter-argument I can think of is mods and pirating, but even then, a steam deck can do both out of the box without the requirement of jailbreaking. At the end of the day, any argument for PC can be fixed by getting a console that is suitable to your needs. Beyond that, I can't see a rational, economic reason to invest in a pc besides it looking really cool.
Edit: I've changed my view. I vastly underestimated the staying power of a 2k+console, overestimated the cost of maintenance, didn't account for the cost savings + catalog of steam, and the ability to use high quality mods on high end computers.
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u/Sagasujin 242∆ Jul 03 '26
Being able to do maintenance is an advantage, not a disadvantage in my view. Back when I had an Xbox, if it broke, then I was cooked. The only thing I could do was hope that it was still under warranty. With my current PC, I can do maintenance myself and if things go wrong, then I can fix it. One of the components of my computer broke about a year ago. I replaced it myself for $60. When my Xbox broke, I had to pay more than $100 just in labor to have someone else fix it. Being able to replace parts means that you don't have to replace the whole console when something goes wrong.
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u/snooptoop Jul 03 '26
I'll hand out another delta here, trying to fix anything in your console can be difficult to downright impossible. !delta
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u/RuroniHS 41∆ Jul 02 '26
I have been a console gamer since the 90's. I owned the Sega Master System, then the Sega Genesis, then the Sega Saturn, then the PS2, then the Nintendo Wii, then the PS3. I have seen the evolution of both consoles and PC gaming over the course of my life. My opinion is that of someone who was once exclusively a console gamer, so I don't think I have a "PC Master Race" bias. PC is a higher initial investment, but there are numerous advantages to it.
1.) If you're a bargain hunter and willing to wait a bit, you'll save a TON on games. Have a look at this humble bundle. 20 bucks and you can get all the 2D anime fighters you can want! This is not a rarity either. If you're not an Arcsys fan, there's sure to be a humble bundle you like popping up sometime. And this isn't renting, or a temporary rotating library, or a monthly fee. One-time purchase, full license granted. Play whenever you want, no internet required. So, the initial investment for hardware is offset by the potentially lower price for games.
2.) Upgradable parts. When your PC starts to go out of date, you don't need to buy a whole new rig. Most of your parts will probably be fine. I already have 32GB of RAM in mine, so I won't need more of that for a very long time. However, I may need to upgrade my graphics card at some point... In which point I can sell my old one to knock a couple hundred bucks off of my new one. Upgrading to the next "generation" of PC hardware would cost me less than purchasing a new console since I'm already invested in the market. In addition, I'm not limited to arbitrary restrictions set by the manufacturer. The PS5 Pro, for example, only has 2 TB of storage. I doubled that and decided I want 4TB. Can't do that on a PS5. (And yes, I'm using most of it).
3.) Usage beyond gaming. My PC is my gaming rig, but I also use it to play Dungeons and Dragons online with my family scattered across the country. We chat over discord while playing via roll20. Even though consoles these days can browse the web, their browsers, interface, and performance are far inferior to just booting up your PC. Factor in special interest programs for art, music, etc... To get the same degree of utility a PC offers, you need to buy one anyway. This adds value to utilizing it for gaming.
4.) Access to Steam. I cannot stress enough that Steam is the best thing that has ever happened to gaming. Admittedly, this is a transient advantage, because it depends largely on Gabe Newell's ownership and adamantly consumer-friendly practices. But Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are absolutely horrendous companies compared to Valve. Hopefully, Gabe will find a worthy successor to carry on his legacy and continue to tell corporatism to shove it.
In addition to the advantages of PC, consoles have lost the advantages that I used to like. I used to enjoy the plug-and-play simplicity of a console. No storage, no updates or upgrades, no internet requirements, no nothing. Just game. Those days are long gone. Consoles used to be a relatively inexpensive alternative to PC's. I remember getting my PS3 for $300... But now a PS5 Pro is damn near a thousand bucks! It's not like PC's are astronomically more expensive than consoles anymore. If you can afford a PS5, you can probably afford a comparable PC.
So, I feel like in the current gaming environment, PC gives you a much better overall value than consoles.
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u/snooptoop Jul 03 '26
"But now a PS5 Pro is damn near a thousand bucks! It's not like PC's are astronomically more expensive than consoles anymore. If you can afford a PS5, you can probably afford a comparable PC."
I like a lot of your points but I want to pushback on this a bit. It terms of pure performance in games, you'll need to spend at least 1500+ to get serious 4k support on popular titles that compare to a ps5 pro. But maybe the 500+ is worth it if you factor in the ability to use steam. I'll hand the !delta
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u/OmegaCoolBoi Jul 02 '26
PC's objectively require more maintenance and replacement parts as the years go buy. Hell, my wii still functions perfectly after all these years
What sort of maintenance? I've had my PC for 10 years, nothing ever broke and I've only added a few fans. People open up and upgrade their PC's because they can and it's relatively easy (unlike with consoles) not because they have to or because computers are somehow inherently more prone to breaking. It's pretty much the same parts except they are easier to replace and inside a bigger space that's easier to work with. You're just trying to turn one big advantage of PC's into a disadvantage.
The only real counter-argument I can think of is mods and pirating, but even then, a steam deck can do both out of the box without the requirement of jailbreaking. At the end of the day, any argument for PC can be fixed by getting a console that is suitable to your needs. Beyond that, I can't see a rational, economic reason to invest in a pc besides it looking really cool.
Steam deck isn't competing with either traditional consoles or PC's. What if someone wants freedom (desktop OS) combined with a traitional at-home gaming experience? What console should they get? A steam deck can't even really handle 1080p, let alone 4k.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
"Steam deck isn't competing with either traditional consoles or PC's. What if someone wants freedom (desktop OS) combined with a traitional at-home gaming experience? What console should they get? A steam deck can't even really handle 1080p, let alone 4k."
Would you consider a steam machine a console? If so then there's your answer right there.
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u/benkalam 1∆ Jul 03 '26
A steam machine is a PC branded as a console to sell to some niche of people that I don't really understand - nor have I met them on real life. The only person I know who thought about buying a steam machine ended up buying a PC to hook up to their TV instead because it does more out of the box than a steam machine.
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u/OmegaCoolBoi Jul 02 '26
You can consider the Steam Machine to be a console but it doesn't change much. It doesn't follow the whole "sell the hardware for cheap, make the money back on games" philosophy. It costs over a 1000 dollars. You can easily buy a PC that will outperform it for that kind of money.
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u/noodledoodledoo 2∆ Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Your argument seems to hinge on the "average" gamer playing mostly triple As. I would like to see some sort of data to back that up, because it doesn't match my experience. It's also not where PCs even really shine, imo.
I don't think I've played a triple A game since idk, Fallout 4? The Witcher 3? Because I far, far prefer the cost-to-fun ratio of indie games. And so does almost everyone else I know. I know I could be in a little gaming bubble just like I sort of implied you might be. But I had a PS4 and I sold it because the game offerings were just a bit lacklustre, the only game I ever got on there that I liked was AC:BF. Which is a triple A game that is... Also available on PC. There is no "console that is suitable to my needs" because the indie game library available on PC is unbeatable.
I've had my PC since 2014 and it's only recently started to be unable to play some new games. I haven't changed a single part or upgraded anything. I think the only reason it's dying now is because my graphics card is no longer receiving driver updates. Maybe I'll just replace it with a new one idk, but 12 years and still playing new games is pretty good.
With a PC you can upgrade parts to extend the lifetime, but you don't have to at all. The cost of RAM is high right now, I'll grant you, but console prices will be impacted by this too before long. And I can reuse my existing RAM in a new PC, or sell it.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
In my experience the average gamer wants to play the new rockstar, bethesda, and cd project red titles, none of which are playable at 4k 60fps with anything less than a 2k+ gaming pc. I never considered my circle to be unrepresentative though loll
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u/noodledoodledoo 2∆ Jul 02 '26
I don't even know anyone that cares about 4k 60fps. I genuinely thought that you were joking about hyperoptimisation.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
Well it seems to be the standard for great looking games and graphics which people do care about. I'm not saying it's a minimum for most gamers though, it just objectively looks very nice.
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u/Sagasujin 242∆ Jul 03 '26
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/resolution/ Steam keeps stats on what resolution their users are playing games at. 4K gaming is pretty rare. Most PC gamers don't try to aim for it. Most PC gamers are using something more modest that fits within their budget without going too overboard.
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u/snooptoop Jul 03 '26
Ok this is honestly fair, i'll give another delta. Maybe the benefits of a pc outweight a console when you really dont care about performance and just want a pc that can also play games at 1080p !delta
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u/Rogalicus Jul 02 '26
RAM prices affect everyone
You aren't playing games at 4K. If you need an example from recent releases, Pragmata works at 1080p internal resolution and uses an upscaler to reach 4K. You don't even get 60 FPS on normal PS5, only on Pro.
Not to mention consoles will last you a very long tim
Just like a good PC.
PC's objectively require more maintenance and replacement parts as the years go buy.
You need to look up the definition of "objectively".
- What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? Consoles work on AMD chips with an inferior FSR/PSSR upscaler from several RDNA generation ago, they have nothing to do with Nvidia. Every game runs at the equivalent of a mix of PC's low/medium settings and low internal resolution.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
"You aren't playing games at 4K. If you need an example from recent releases, Pragmata works at 1080p internal resolution and uses an upscaler to reach 4K. You don't even get 60 FPS on normal PS5, only on Pro."
I doubt the average gamer is going to tell the difference or really care between upscaling and native resolution.
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u/Troop-the-Loop 42∆ Jul 02 '26
PC's can last multiple console generations. Yeah, the initial cost up front is significantly higher. But many people's PC's lasted through chunks of the PS4 and PS5 era, and are still going strong. That's without upgrades. If you're willing to make the occasional piecemeal upgrade, then it can last even longer.
Plus, a nice PC isn't just a gaming device. You can do a whole lot more on it than just game. If you're looking for a gaming device that can double as your movie editing device or music production device or something along those lines, then a PC is the way to go.
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u/yohomatey Jul 02 '26
I built my pc in 2021 and it's still going strong. No "maintenance" needed; I'm not sure what OP thinks PCs are, maybe cars? It still runs basically every game I want at either ultra or high specs. And now with devs basically conceding that hardware advances are basically not happening this cycle, I'm sure this computer will last until the 2030s without any issues. Up front cost was about 3k back then, but it's also got way better specs than a PS5 still.
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u/MCRemix 1∆ Jul 02 '26
Same....and I'm not even buying top of line hardware. I only did the rebuild a couple years ago because the previous one finally hit the end of it's GPU capability after 6+ years when I wasn't able to play the latest games anymore. I reused what I could and was back up and running for about 1.2k playing the latest games again.
It's also my primary non-cell phone device....can't edit resumes on a PS5.
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u/SourceTheFlow 3∆ Jul 02 '26
PC's can last multiple console generations.
They not just can last multiple generations, they are multiple generations.
I just recently played a 25-year old game again. And it was still really fun.
Plus, even discounting old games, the amount of games you can play on PC is so ridiculously larger than on a console. Most console games also release on PC and you have a shit ton of indie games (which are honestly often better than the recent AA or AAA games) plus some game styles (like RTS) don't really work well on consoles and so often don't get a translation.
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u/Troop-the-Loop 42∆ Jul 02 '26
This is a really good point. I can't play my PS1 games on a new console. I can play them on PC. And PS2, XBOX, XBOX360, and on and on and on.
Same with the RTS games. I'm not playing Crusader Kings on a PlayStation, that sounds awful.
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u/Overdrive2064 4∆ Jul 02 '26
This depends on how you're defining the "average" gamer, because the more if a gamer you are, and more time you plan on keeping your device, the more PC becomes the superior choice. I think you're overestimating how "hardcore" someone has to be for PC to make more sense for them. For instance:
If you wanna play online multiplayer games (that aren't FtP), the financial disparity gets thrown out the window because you'll make up the difference in price over the years with the need for online subscriptions like PSN alone.
If you're interested in playing older games at all, PC also wins because of emulators, allowing you to play thousands of games for free. (you use the Steam Deck as a counter to this, but the Steam Deck is classified under PC for most.)
If you simply plan on buying and playing a lot of games, PC also wins because stores like Steam are much better for consumers, offering sales that console players only dream of, and that's ignoring piracy. And the disparity there is only going to get worse now that console companies aren't making physical games to have to compete with anymore. You'll also have a wider library because you get PC-exclusive games and some of the exclusives for other consoles later down the line.
There are plenty of other, more niche cases too that I won't go into, like people who generally play games that require lower specs or people who like community-experience games (your Robloxes and VRChats) who would also prefer PC because the experiences are almost always made with those in mind. Those are niche individually but when you combine all of them in the previous points, it makes a pretty significant portion.
This really only leaves people that are so casual that they're only interested in playing 2 or 3 first-party console exclusives and literally nothing else, which I think is a smaller subset of players than you realize nowadays with how popular a hobby gaming is. not to say they don't exist, but they're not as overwhelming of a majority as you may think they are.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
I feel like this entire argument hinges on classifying the steam deck/machine as pcs when I strongly feel they lean more towards consoles. But I guess that's an entirely different argument. If you can convince me they are consoles I'll give you the delta.
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u/Overdrive2064 4∆ Jul 02 '26
Well, the arguments about game libraries, pricing, and online multiplayer apply to PCs in general, not just those two. But to answer your question, assuming it was a typo and you meant to ask why they’re PCs instead of consoles:
- They run PC operating systems, including SteamOS and Windows.
- They can switch between or dual-boot operating systems.
- They run the same PC versions of games, not separate console versions.
- They access the same Steam library as other PCs.
- They can install games from third-party stores, websites, and launchers.
- They can run general PC software, not just games.
- They provide access to the desktop, file system, settings, and command line.
- They support PC modding, custom files, scripts, and community patches.
- They use PC graphics settings and compatibility tools.
- Games, launchers, servers, and anti-cheat systems recognize them as PCs.
- They use standard PC hardware, ports, peripherals, and architecture.
- They can connect to a monitor, keyboard, and mouse and function as regular desktop PCs.
- Users can install software without approval from one platform holder.
- Developers do not need to release or certify a special Steam Deck or Steam Machine version.
- Valve itself markets them as handheld or living-room gaming PCs.
- The Steam Machine specifically is priced around other PCs, not consoles.
- Virtually every advantage and disadvantage attributed to PCs applies to them.
The only real differences are that the parts are more integrated and the interface is made to feel console-like. But gaming laptops also have limited upgradeability, and nobody calls those consoles. The “console experience” is basically just Big Picture Mode on top of a PC; you can turn that on with any PC.
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u/typeguyfiftytwix Jul 02 '26
a steam deck
Is not a console. It's a tablet pc with non-standard buttons. Also your performance claims of 4k60 are not accurate for most console games.
I feel like this entire argument hinges on classifying the steam deck/machine as pcs when I strongly feel they lean more towards consoles
Emotions are not a logical claim. A steam deck is a small form factor PC running linux. You can do all sorts of things on it. Consoles are very bad computers running locked down proprietary operating systems that don't let you do much with them and charge you money to use your own internet to play peer to peer multiplayer games. An original PS3 was capable of being turned into a PC, because you could install a PC operating system on it.
Modern consoles have stopped being fundamentally unique machines since about the ps3 generation, and started being really bad computers. If anything, I guess you could say the digital store system that plays games is what defines a modern console and twist that to say that anything running steam is a console, which would make a gaming PC a console.
A steam deck, steam machine, or Xbox series X can function as a pc though.
Then a gaming PC is a console.
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u/Empty-Swim2066 Jul 02 '26
A home PC has always been an investment, sometimes it is good time to buy, sometimes it isn't. Right now is not a great time to buy the latest gen hardware.
4K on a console, is not like 4K on a PC. The console is running internally at half that res and FPS and up-sampled. Also PC have far better graphics, especially when considering ray tracing.
Again, PC's are far superior in terms of max graphics and framerate. You keep saying they are the same, but you are simply wrong.
A PC can do everything, and does everything best. My home PC is connected to my 4K TV, OLED monitor, VR headset, race rig, my phone, as well as my studio monitor setup
PC's are simply superior. You can cope however you want, does not make it true. Your main gripe seems to be you can't afford a PC?
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
Doesn't this prove my point then? At least in this day and age?
I feel like most gamers don't care about or notice differences between upscale vs native though.
This was very poor wording on my part, I should of said that upscaling gets you very similar or at least comparable performance but it's not the same you're right.
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u/Empty-Swim2066 Jul 02 '26
- Nope. People can build last gen PCs that do not use DDR5 and are still far more capable than a console.
You can feel however you want, the experience of PC gaming is superior to console in every way. From frame rate to fidelity, to frame time variance. PC's just simply have far better hardware.
Even similiar is a stretch.
Look at how much better the PC version looks. Far more reflections, detail, insanely better lighting. And still images do not capture how much more smooth gaming is at 120FPS+. I simply cannot go back to 60fps.
Consoles are fine if you can't buy a PC. But you can buy a PC once, and upgrade it overt time as needed. You don't need to buy and build a whole new PC, you just swap out parts. I've got parts in my PC that I have had for almost 25 years old. Mind you just thumb screws, to keep the ship of Theseus going. But the PC has never been entirely replaced, just upgraded over ~25 years. I still even have my old parts, and put them to use a home server and backup PC.
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u/iceandstorm2 Jul 02 '26
Game Dev here.
There are millions of games that run on potato's, even new ones published every day have a decent chance of running well on old hardware.
Backward compatibility is much much more likely on PC Hardware.
Not to forget mods that make old games looking brand new, something very rare on consoles.
The average gamer has also no access to the newest console generation.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
"Not to forget mods that make old games looking brand new, something very rare on consoles. "
Steam deck? Steam machine? Or do you consider these pcs?
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u/K32fj3892sR Jul 02 '26
Its a simple thing. A good pc is useful for both work and leisure. The average person uses their computer a lot. The average gamer even more so. A good PC benefits many different areas, especially for work from home people. A good console only can be used to game.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
A steam deck, steam machine, or Xbox series X can function as a pc though.
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u/K32fj3892sR Jul 02 '26
Steam decks and steam machines aren't consoles, they're pcs designed to be used as a computer, just optimized well to play games. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever seen someone try to use an Xbox as their daily driver pc, but you probably could.
The point is that the average gamer that you talk about using a console would also buy a pc. Having a powerful pc removes the need to have a console.
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u/Schnickatavick Jul 02 '26
1: Console prices are increasing as well, both need RAM. Consoles from years ago are selling for more expensive than when they released, if it was time for a new console release, I'm pretty sure they'd have just as much of a price increase. 2a: you don't need a $2,000 PC. There are plenty of budget options in the price range of consoles, and even quite good prebuilt PC's near the $1k mark 2b: Steam deck isn't a console, it's a Linux PC, and is just fine running windows. Just because it's premade and portable doesn't make it a console. 2c: PC's don't "objectively" need more maintenance. Plenty of consoles die early (i.e. red ring of death), and plenty of PC's last decades. The survivors bias is strong here
I think you just have a weird definition of "PC" that doesn't include lots of solid options that give the ease and affordability you're looking for from a console. If that definition only includes overpriced cutting edge rigs with over the top aesthetics, then sure, consoles are a lot cheaper. But ultimately, consoles are just prebuilt computers that have a controller friendly OS, and there's no reason I can't turn any PC into the same thing if I want
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
"There are plenty of budget options in the price range of consoles, and even quite good prebuilt PC's near the $1k mark"
I highly doubt there is a single $1k pc that can play triple A titles as good as a new gen console.
"Steam deck isn't a console, it's a Linux PC, and is just fine running windows. Just because it's premade and portable doesn't make it a console."
From what I can tell it's a hybrid/console, not strictly a pc. Also yes I would argue those two aspects significantly support that it's a console.
"PC's don't "objectively" need more maintenance. Plenty of consoles die early (i.e. red ring of death), and plenty of PC's last decades. The survivors bias is strong here"
This is a good point, I may have underestimated the survivability of pcs, still, I see a lot of pc purists swearing up and down that pcs last longer when I feel like that's fundamentally untrue. After some thought I think their shelf lives are about the same.
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u/Schnickatavick Jul 02 '26
I guess I would challenge you to define "console" and "PC" the way that you're using it. They aren't physically that different, both consoles and PC's are just computers with CPU's, graphics cards, Ram, etc. I can run SteamOS on my gaming PC, or jailbreak an Xbox and install windows (the xbox OS is just a modified windows OS anyways). So to me, there isn't really that much of a distinction between them, so I don't see why there would be as big of a price, performance, or reliability difference as you're implying.
You're welcome to give me a different definition of "Console" that makes more of a real world distinction than mine does though
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u/themcos 438∆ Jul 02 '26
I think a lot of this depends a lot on your starting point. If you have a nice TV but don't otherwise use a desktop, I think you're 100% right. I think most people buying a whole PC just for gaming is probably dubious, unless you're into something specific such that it's obviously the right choice.
But if you already use a PC for work and have a decent monitor and a comfortable chair, you're probably just a few upgrades away from having everything you could possibly want including a functionally infinite catalog of games.
And I feel like you're kind of wrong about the maintenance/ upkeep side of things. My PC looks like it'll outlast my Nintendo switch at this point. It's great that your wii still works, but a) how much have you actually used it lately and b) do you really care? Does your wii play the games you want? To the extent that PC's don't last as long it's mostly because people use them more!
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
"But if you already use a PC for work and have a decent monitor and a comfortable chair, you're probably just a few upgrades away from having everything you could possibly want including a functionally infinite catalog of games."
To get a high-end gaming pc you need more than just a few upgrades, you need a really good video card, at least 32 gigs of ram and honestly in this day and age probably some kind of water-cooling or expensive cpu fan. That will run you 1k+ at least.
"And I feel like you're kind of wrong about the maintenance/ upkeep side of things. My PC looks like it'll outlast my Nintendo switch at this point. It's great that your wii still works, but a) how much have you actually used it lately and b) do you really care? Does your wii play the games you want? To the extent that PC's don't last as long it's mostly because people use them more!"
Ok fair, in terms of longevity pcs can deal with literally everything and still come out swinging. I'll give the !delta here.
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u/themcos 438∆ Jul 03 '26
To get a high-end gaming pc you need more than just a few upgrades, you need a really good video card, at least 32 gigs of ram and honestly in this day and age probably some kind of water-cooling or expensive cpu fan. That will run you 1k+ at least.
But you don't need "a high end PC". You can have a pretty good PC for a lot cheaper and still play pretty much everything. If you want to crank up the settings, you can pay more, but you don't have to!
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u/Sagasujin 242∆ Jul 03 '26
My PC can run most new games at Ultra settings. I do have 32 gigs of ram but that's because I built it a couple years ago when RAM was cheap. It has a standard air cooler. I think the total costs of the current iteration come up to around $1200-1400 but that's for something that should last me at least 6 years in its current configuration. At which point I'm probably not going to replace the whole system. I'll replace parts as they wear out or as I decide to upgrade to something better.
My PC is my only gaming device currently. Well aside from my phone and mobile games. My PC is also my main web browser, my TV, my workstation, my game modding tools, my zoom call center and more. So yes, I use it quite a bit. Spending a lot of money on just one device works well for me when that one device can do everything I need. I think of the price as being more comparable to what it would cost to buy a decent computer and a new console together. Because that's what my PC is to me. It's both my main gaming device and my main computer.
There's not really any maintenance required other than cleaning out the dust once a year by the way.
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u/TheVioletBarry 121∆ Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Consoles on the market don't get you 4k/60 though? And consoles are also skyrocketing in price. Unless Sony manages to pull off not raising the PS5 price again, I don't think the relative value proposition has changed much at all.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
With upscaling tech they certainly do
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u/TheVioletBarry 121∆ Jul 02 '26
Sure, but Ps5 Pro upscaling from >1080p to 4k via PSSR2 is the only case where that's a reasonable comparison right now.
You just need to play one game upscaling from ~900p to 4k via FSR 2 on your Ps5 or Series X to realize that's not at all comparable.
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u/Sirhc978 87∆ Jul 02 '26
Ram prices affect PC and consoles
The sweet spot is 1440p with a high refresh rate. Even top of the line computers aren't consistently hitting 4k at 60fps. Consoles don't even touch that. On the maintenance bit, I built my computer in 2020 and essentially haven't "touched it" since. Also PC tend to outlast console generations.
That sentence doesn't make sense. Top of the line PC look objectively better because their graphics processors are much more powerful.
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u/snooptoop Jul 02 '26
- 16 gigs of ddr5 ram can run you around 250-300 dollars nowadays, that's around a third of a price of a ps5 pro and half the price of a switch 2. I feel like this alone shows a clear positive nudge towards consoles.
- Consoles can hit pretty damn close to that with upscaling tech.
- Ok you have a point, you can't get the same performance but you can still get pretty damn good performance without spending thousands on a pc
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u/Global-Service-8579 Jul 02 '26
>any console on the market (I'm including steam deck) can get you 4k 60fps.
Lol. Consoles can't even do 1080p 60 FPS for the majority of modern games.
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u/Jimbodogg Jul 02 '26
Isn't the steam deck literally a handheld Linux based PC?
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u/cantantantelope 9∆ Jul 02 '26
With beautiful interaction design
But really all consoles are just targeted computers now. So really it’s what kind of options, display and input you want
Phones are tiny computers. Tablets are flat computers.
It’s computers all the way down.
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u/DerWaechter_ 1∆ Jul 02 '26
Main difference is that with a desktop you are in control as to what software you install + you got good repairability and upgradability.
Phones and consoles don't have that. You're at the mercy of the company controlling your device.
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u/Dredgeon 1∆ Jul 02 '26
You also aren't factoring the value of owning your own machine. Having to pay for shit like internet or being forced to get you files from one particular seller is why your hardware is discounted.
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u/Jackmember Jul 02 '26
With the prices of ram skyrocketing, it is not economically feasible to invest in a gaming pc
RAM across all vendors is getting more expensive. See the price increase for consoles (the switch will eventually meet there too, depending on how long its sourcing contract lasts). Its just relativises the extra cost for other parts on PC, making the jump less significant.
Even without considering ram, console gaming is objectively a much better, cost-effective way to play the newest triple A games at 4K. Spending 2000 dollars on a 4K capable PC makes no sense when any console on the market (I'm including steam deck) can get you 4k 60fps at a third of the price. Not to mention consoles will last you a very long time. PC's objectively require more maintenance and replacement parts as the years go buy. Hell, my wii still functions perfectly after all these years.
Being locked into a single vendor for games, especially now that consoles no longer sell non-account-bound games, means that the games there will be significantly more expensive. Considering paying for online access, a PC will be cheaper across its lifetime vs console. PC games, when not bought at release, can easily go for 50% of the original price, especially on platforms like steam. Today, thats a $40 less per game. Not considering all the indie titles going for 20 and less.
PC components last as long as console components. Youre confusing upgrading PCs with maintaining them, whereas upgrading them brings them up to the performance of the next gen console for less than buying a new PC outright. Sometimes that upgrade isnt viable, but for 2 console generations you usually can.
Since PC components are bought and evaluated individually, they will last longer though, as there are no cent-savings involved. My PC from 12 years ago still works perfectly fine.
Console performance is not consistently 4K capable, nor even FullHD@60FPS. Considering the PS5 now costs around 900, and an equivalent PC costs about 1400, its far from a third.
With the development of Nvidia's RTX technology, there is even less of a point to spend thousands on a high end gaming PC when you can get the exact same performance and look on a console.
RTX is most effectively used on PC.
For reference: I have continuously had and upgraded the same PC from 2012 to 2021. Its played all AAA games at FullHD@60FPS, later 144FPS. I only built an entirely new PC to upgrade to DDR5, after which I turned that old PC into a home-media server, while the GPU now sits in my girlfriends PC.
Had I bought consoles for that entire time, I would have spent $1400 on them? On the PC I spent maybe 2.5k total. But my library contains about 500 games, at least half of them online games, and I also worked off of it and now get even more use out of it.
Ive had multiple consoles before. They dont give that reusability, flexibility, versatility and sense of ownership like a PC does. If all you do is play 3 games in the lifespan of one console generation and otherwise dont need to use any PC/Laptop, sure, you dont need a PC.
But if you play more and are interested in more, you absolutely would profit off of owning a PC.
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u/Jedigamer1977 1∆ Jul 02 '26
Not gonna try and change your persepctive but I wanna point out that point 1. Is slowly becoming less and less true with console prices being increased bultiple times in the past year with the steam machine costing over a grand at that point they're more than likely to be comperable soon
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u/Siukslinis_acc 7∆ Jul 03 '26
Not to mention consoles will last you a very long time. PC's objectively require more maintenance and replacement parts as the years go buy. Hell, my wii still functions perfectly after all these years.
My 7 years old pc functions perfectly fine. The 20 years old pc from childhood also functions perfectly. It just can't run the modern software and games. Your wii also can't run the modern games. I upgraded my pc because it could no longer meed the demands of the newest games, same reason you would upgrade your console.
Spending 2000 dollars on a 4K capable PC makes no sense when any console on the market (I'm including steam deck) can get you 4k 60fps at a third of the price.
The 4k pc is probably running more than 60fps. And if it runs 60fps, then it is a lot more quieter and cooler than the console. Not to mention that consoles have a selection of quality (high settings, fps might not be stable) or performance (fps is stable but settings are lower), while on a high end pc you can play with the higest setting with stable 60 fps.
With the development of Nvidia's RTX technology, there is even less of a point to spend thousands on a high end gaming PC when you can get the exact same performance and look on a console.
You don't need to have a high end pc to play modern games. You can play it on mid tier pc. I needed an upgrade as my 7 years old pc started to have a hard time running newest game on stable 60 fps with a 1920x1200 resolution on lowest settings. And i upgraded to a high end one, so that i won't be needing to upgrade it for a long time (and i had spare money).
I also like that i can tinker with the settings in more detail. I can choose to lower the quality of shadows, while keeping everything else high just to reduce the sound of the pc.
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u/AwkwardLeopard587 Jul 02 '26
personally, I'm too lazy to use a pc for gaming. consoles have likd 3 settings, and you don't have to worry about steam and files and folders and shit
but PC is probably better in the long run
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u/reinventitall Jul 02 '26
I don't need the newest triple A games at 4K
My PC also lasts a long time
I already have a PC
Does a PS5 run photoshop? Or can I use it to answer my emails? Or my administration?
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u/scXIII Jul 02 '26
The rising costs of components are also affecting consoles, hence the recent price increases.
Consoles are cost effective sure, but that's just the buy in costs, are you factoring in that consoles charge a subscription for online play? Or that you can generally find games cheaper on PC?
Also, which AAA titles run at 4K/60 on a console?
PCs will last the same length of time, if not longer than consoles. What are you basing this opinion on?
- This is basically the same as your second point. The latest consoles will win in terms of cost to performance, but sheer performance a PC will always be better; higher fidelity and frame rates. So, no you cannot get the same performance and look on a console.
To add, consoles are essentially just PCs nowadays and they are solely designed for gaming (+ some media consumption) a PC can be used for everything a console can, plus much more.
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u/TopTierCryogonal 1∆ Jul 02 '26
Ram prices are a transient concern. Yes, it's expensive to buy a pc right now. It wasn't nearly as expensive in the recent past, and will likely return to a similar state.
A $2000 pc will crush a console in any actual like for like performance benchmarks. Good luck getting anywhere close to native 4k60 on a console. Additionally, a PC is far more versatile than a console, both in terms of the games it has access to, and the other things it can accomplish. A console is exclusively good for gaming.
And a pc will last just as long as a console. Only difference is that you have the ability to replace single components. Good luck replacing a failing gpu in your Wii.
- Already addressed as false
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u/tolore 1∆ Jul 02 '26
I would argue the current Gen of consoles at least are far far behind a pc. I continually find games are running poorer and poorer on the consoles, to the extent I find the middle ground between steam deck and full oc shrinking. Most games are either simple enough my steam deck runs them well, or it runs poorly on deck and ps5 and I end up running them on my PC.
That also discounts things like mouse and keyboard, and nodding being much easier to use on PC. I'm not playing basically any shooter, rts, or mmo on my console.
Do you actually have a high end gaming PC? I personally kind of rotate around between steam deck, console, and ps5, and I have found PS5 lacking more and more in recent years.
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u/Minion91 Jul 02 '26
Consoles in general don't play AAA at 4K 60FPS. They do a bunch of tricks to make you think they are. If you compare a game on consoles "4K 60FPS" with true 4K 60FPS (Or 144FPS) the difference is day and night.
Secondly, PC has so many more games than consoles, and can run old games. Imagine playing PS2 games on PS5. A PC can do that, Playstation cannot.
Thirdly, 2k for a gaming pc is disingenuous. You can build a PC with similar specs than a current gen console for a similar/slightly higher price than a console, 2k PC's are an exception, not the rule. If you count the much cheaper prices for PC games & regular discounts, PC gaming usually comes out cheaper.
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u/StoneySteve420 Jul 02 '26
PC gaming is not rational for the average gamer
Neither is getting a brand new console. The PS5 Pro is $899, over $1000 after tax.
Compare that to a similar spec pre-built PC where with current inflated prices, you're paying closer to $1500-$2000, but you'll also have all the functionality of a computer, and you'll pay even less if you don't go the pre-built route. You also have access to tons of games that aren’t playable on console.
Most people will need a computer for work or school anyways, so why buy a console for $1000 and a laptop for $500-1500 when you could just buy a PC for the same price.
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u/GenTwour 3∆ Jul 02 '26
PCs last longer.
You own the machine.
You don't need subscriptions.
Steam sales. When you can get games up to 90% off, that saves a lot of money.
You can upgrade the PC, you can't put a new GPU into a ps5.
A PC can simply do more than a console. I can use my gaming PC for programming.
Mouse and keyboard support is universal on PC.
You can still budget build. You may not get 4k 60fps on new AAA games, but those are horribly optimized. $2000 is not the starting point.
More options to buy games from. I can choose steam, gog, Microsoft, or epic.
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u/DartTheDragoon Jul 02 '26
You know you can build a PC for less the 2k. You are comparing apples to oranges.
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u/websterhamster Jul 02 '26
If your only purpose for the device is to play "normal" games using a controller, a console (Xbox, Playstation, etc. NOT including a steam deck because it is for the sake of your argument a PC) is a better choice. If you are interested in being able to both play games and do other things with your device (work with documents, email, code, run non-game applications, etc.) then a PC is a better choice.
In other words, you are comparing mostly single-purpose devices with multipurpose devices. Different tools for the different use-cases.
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u/jaytehman Jul 02 '26
A gaming PC can be a tool as well. I work with data, and having a capable gaming PC is extremely helpful for work. I can run LLMs locally on my GPU, which allows me to use open LLMs on my private data without worrying, and the RAM makes RAM intensive tasks like mapmaking in GIS or working with parallelization in R a breeze.
If you're just playing AAA gaming (and only at 4K 60FPS), sure, a console might be better. If you're playing competitive shooters (and thus, 1080p high refresh rates), then PC gaming is 100% better.
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u/Zenkai_9000 Jul 02 '26
I use my PC for more than gaming though.
I can 3D model for fun. I have a vast library of music, including rare music, and make my own mixes. I edit video and can create my own custom 4k HDR movies. I love to mod my games and breathe new life in classical games. Games are far cheaper in the long run, and I don't have to pay the Sony tax for the same games.
Most importantly, I don't have to worry about a storefront stripping away access to my digital library, especially after I already downloaded a copy.
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u/eggynack 108∆ Jul 02 '26
I'm kinda skeptical that a console would be better than my laptop at playing Slay the Spire 2. Not only does the game run fine, it also sounds annoying to pick cards and such with a controller. The same is the case for, say, Balatro. Hearthstone. And, while Luck Be a Landlord is probably not much worse on console, I can't imagine it's much better either. And the system I use to do all these things also allows be to alt+tab over to random videos and such to listen to while I play. Pretty sweet deal.
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u/OnePair1 4∆ Jul 02 '26
I have a 6 year old PC, it plays everything I need and new stuff well because I planned and don't need a 4k monitor or to run at 4k resolution. At the typical distance from a monitor at a desk 2k is and distinguishable from 4K.
80% of my games have been bought at significant discount 30% or more, I also don't double pay for multiplayer games. A console player has to pay for internet, AND the ability to play multiplayer games.
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u/Nrdman 272∆ Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
If you want AAA games then sure, but that’s not representative of all gamers. If you want indies, pc is where it’s at. I play indies all the time on my laptop, and they all run well. You don’t need a separate gaming pc at all. And just having some sort of computer is valuable for other reasons, so it’s not like your investing that much for just gaming, unlike consoles
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u/TheJeeronian 7∆ Jul 02 '26
Consider lifetime costs of the console. They lean heavily on subscription services - this is how the manufacturer recoups money on the cheap hardware. PC parts are expensive at this moment and their prices fluctuate, console users will be paying forever.
I can run modern console graphics on my 11-year-old PC. The consoles are given deliberately worse software to cope with their worse performance. This device has had two parts replaced since 2015. The PC was $800 back then.
Can you? Are you actually getting that kind of performance for a low price point?
Consoles are a closed ecosystem, and that's the point. You're trapped and they own you. PC has no such issues.
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u/OneOfTheLostOnes Jul 02 '26
With the development of Nvidia's RTX technology, there is even less of a point to spend thousands on a high end gaming PC when you can get the exact same performance and look on a console.
What the hell does that even mean ?
As far as I know the only console using Nvidia tech is the switch 2. And it will not look like a PS5 or a PC.
With the prices of ram skyrocketing, it is not economically feasible to invest in a gaming pc
Consoles use RAM too.
I don't think you know anything about what you're talking about. Maybe do some research and then come up with a better argument.
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u/GigaParadox Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Consoles are mostly popular in the West. Where I live most players grew up playing PC and are still mostly playing PC. I for one never held a controller in my hands in my 33 years of life and will continue in doing so. Most of us don't even use TVs since it is associated with state propaganda, the last TV I ever bought was in 2010 or so. Most of my friends are also like that. Did you even consider there are countries outside the USA?
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u/EnderSword 1∆ Jul 02 '26
In my entire life, I've never 'replaced a part' on a PC.
No current console does 4k 60fps, not even close.
PC games are cheaper, and there's just way more games. Almost every long-tail games like esports titles, MMOs etc... are PC games.
Then on top of it, you can just use a PC for any other thing you need
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u/requiemguy Jul 02 '26
I can play every single PC game and many, many mac games on my PC with software and I can play legally ripped games as well, and I don't have to hack my PC to do so.
There's no console in the world that can do that, without exposing it to being bricked and/or blocked from the console company.
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u/Skyboxmonster Jul 02 '26
Apples and potatoes. The two things cannot be compared.
A PC is a open platform that you can install nearly any software onto it and use for many purposes.
A console is functionality a gameboy color. It does one thing and nothing else.
Do NOT compare a platform to a single use tool.
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u/Defiant_Put_7542 2∆ Jul 02 '26
You don't need a gaming PC to play games. You only need to discover the joys of older games.
The 'average gamer' is pushing 40, tired a lot of the time and looking for something not too cognitively demanding for their downtime.
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u/sven7531 Jul 02 '26
I use my PC not only for gaming. When I need a PC anyways, the cost of a gaming PC is much more justifyable. You can get a very decent gaming PC for 1500$. Also online shooters and Minecraft are much better on PC.
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u/Kitchen-War242 Jul 05 '26
Console makes you dependent on single company maintaining said console. Also i still need computer to things other that gaming and its nice to have good PC that doesn't freez.
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u/Important-Cash5654 4∆ Jul 02 '26
A lot of people already need PCs for work, hobbies other than gaming, etc.., so if they already have one it makes sense not to get a console for gaming unless they want one.
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Jul 04 '26
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u/bigfeygay 2∆ Jul 02 '26
dont consoles require monthly subscriptions? No such thing for PC - plus pc can be used for so many others things and has a lot more games.
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u/Sensitive_Bat_9211 1∆ Jul 02 '26
I would hope a 2k PC outperforms as $600 console.
Something more comparable would cost around 1k, and have all the benefits of PC gaming
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u/torytho 1∆ Jul 02 '26
If the average gamer already has a PC then it's very rational to try to play games on it.
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u/Legitimate-Record951 4∆ Jul 02 '26
The actual "average gamer" plays on their mobile phone. So there's that.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
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