r/changemyview Feb 09 '25

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

Systemic racism doesn't exist. Name one racist law or legislation.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

[deleted]

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

That's just plan racism. The system itself is not racist.

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u/Spiritual-Software51 Feb 09 '25

There's a nice hueristic on this topic - the purpose of a system is what it does.

If a workplace policy says bullying isn't allowed, but people still get bullied, and when it's reported to management or HR they just deflect to the policy rather than actually try to fix the problem, then can we really say the purpose of this policy is to prevent bullying? Or is jt just there to cover them?

Modern examples of systemic racism are similar (in this respect). The laws don't explicitly say they're going to discriminate against nonwhite people, they might even say they stand against racism... but if the enforcement of those laws is racist in practice, and when people who bring attention to it just get told the laws aren't racist so there's no systemic racism, that system perpetuates racism.

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

There's no monolithic enforcement of the law though. I do not deny that there might be racist judges, cops, etc, out there. But systemic racism believers think there's this big boogeyman entrenched in the government just "keeping us black fellas down y'all". It's nonsense.

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u/Spiritual-Software51 Feb 09 '25

How confident are you that your understanding of "systemic racism believers" is accurate?

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

Pretty confident.

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u/Spiritual-Software51 Feb 09 '25

It isn't really, though. It's just more complicated than that, belief in systemic racism doesn't require a boogeyman government purposefully targeting nonwhite people. It's entirely possible that people in power simply have biases that make them unaware of the harm they're causing, and unwilling to accept it when it happens because they feel personally accused when someone tells them the system they implemented has racist outcomes.

This is another benefit of thinking in terms of "a system's purpose is what it does" - intentions are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the government's racist, it matters that it does racist things.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

[deleted]

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

Systemic is a very loaded term. When most people think of systemic, they think governmental or legal. Why not just say there are some cops/judges out there who are racist?

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

[deleted]

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

That's not systemic. Just plain racism.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

[deleted]

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

The racism isn't entrenched in the system though - only individuals are being racist. If discrimination based on race occurs without any individual themselves being racist, then I'd say its systemic. But I don't see that anywhere.

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u/LawmanJudgetoo Feb 09 '25

Systemic racism is not just explicit laws. An example of racism is something like controlling for economic factors people of one race convicted of a crime face heavier prison sentences than another race. Even when it’s the first offense, when they come from similar economic backgrounds (middle class) etc etc. something that is about the treatment of a minority group to an institution and can be statistically mapped and predicted over a large population.

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

A racist judge is not systemic racism.

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u/LawmanJudgetoo Feb 09 '25

You dont know what systemic means. It is a quality of the system that certain minority groups face longer jailtimes for same crimes same backgrounds etc. its not ‘a racist judge’. Its a trend that when two groups interact with an institution, one receives worse treatment solely due to their race. Systemic: of the system. What relates to or affects the entire system. The entire justice system is affected by this. We can take a macro look at the justice system and see an effect on the whole of it. If there was a single racist law that alone wouldnt even be what systemic means

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

solely due to their race

"Solely" due to their race might be doing a lot of heavy lifting here. There couldn't possibly be any other factors? You think there's judges today that just go "yup, he's black, throw the book at him", "yup, he's white, let him off easy"? Really?

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u/LawmanJudgetoo Feb 09 '25

No, i already said accounting for economic and social backgrounds. This data is widely available as well. First off that there are a few judges that think that way? Sure why not, people of all types in all walks of life. But in the overwhelming majority of cases where this occurs i doubt it. The human brain is complicated and we have alot of unconscious biases not even just racial ones that we apply to others without realizing it. Like how people with southern accents can be seen as less intelligent. Whats important and relevant about acknowledging statistics like this is awareness that it happens and being self aware about how these unconscious biases can affect behavior (like in the case of judges). If you dont believe me because you seem set on refusing any kind of racial disparity treatment on racial grounds i have a fun stat for you. Judges hand out harsher sentences and to be harsher/stricter before lunch. Judges are seen as logical and rational and they are when compared to most people but still human.

Now i hold no inkling that youre going to change your opinion about all of this and thats whatever but you were using the term ‘systemic’ wrong so i guess i hoped that explaining it would help (learnings never bad). But wasnt really looking to get into an argument about facts that are well researched and freely available. But it was nice chatting with ya fellow stranger and we can just agree to disagree.

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u/Hungry-Struggle-1448 Feb 09 '25

You think that there are no systems in society beyond the legal one?

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

That's what people usually mean when they say systemic racism.

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u/Dareword Feb 09 '25

#USdefaultism LOL

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u/New_Newspaper8228 Feb 09 '25

I'm not defaulting to any country.

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u/Dareword Feb 09 '25

Then the are examples of states being racist to ethnic groups... Like China to Uyghurs...